I need some help clearing up annulments, marriages, and it's all complicated

[jimsnew]

I guess I will start at the start. I was raised as a Baptist in a fairly religious family, had a young marriage that didn’t work out due to her fidelity issues, refusal to have a family, and various other issues. I tried to make it work, but eventually it ended when I came home from work and was told she wasn’t ‘in love’ with me anymore, wanted to be single, and already had an apartment rented and left.

Fast forward a few years, and I met, dated, and married a beautiful girl, who happened to be Catholic. Due to the fact that it would hold everything up a year (or more) I convinced her to go ahead with a wedding in our church. We have now spent 28 years together, raised our kids Catholic, and have 5 grandchildren.

For about five or six years, I have been considering converting to the Catholic Church, read a lot about it, I have become more conservative myself, plus the horrors of abortion, the glorification of homosexuality, transgenders, etc, just the general decay of society has helped push me in the direction of desiring more than I have had. I think also, as one that has spent years in Protestant churches, that every minister has different interpretations. That doesn’t happen in the Catholic Church, or at least that is a difference I perceive.

After all this time, three weeks ago, I wrote my wife a note, and told her I was going to start RCIA classes, and told her why. I am fairly successful in a tough business, and something of a workaholic, and honestly not the best at talking about feelings, and such. My style is to hold things in, be the tough guy, take charge and fix things. I don’t think she saw it coming at all.

I have started all the paper work to get an anulment from my first wife, I think my advocate said that I should go ahead and take the classes, then wait for the Tribunal to answer, then I am confirmed, and our marriage can be blessed. Is this order correct?
I think there was also something in it where, once confirmed, we have to abstain from sex until the annulment is complete? Or was it until the marriage is blessed by a priest?

Is there a chance that my annulment will be refused, even though I am obviously in a wonderful marriage, blessed with a perfect family because of a mistake of youth?

For whatever reason, it is something I have been drawn towards, and as I told my wife, I think I have to do it. I am pretty sure I know what that is. Sometimes, the more I look at different situations regarding annulments, marriages, the more confused I get.

Part of it is that I want my family to ALL be in the Church, and currently I am the anchor that is keeping them from that, plus the annulment will formerly erase the problems caused by my ex-wife from our life forever.

 

[Catholic1954]

Your advocate has given you good advice. Proceed with RCIA and take the next step as it comes. Your wife also has issues with marrying a divorced man; you should make an appointment to speak with a priest together, so she can formally return to the Church. Welcome Home!

 

[Antegin]

Oh, and welcome…

I think you are going to find the process of getting an annulment not as complicated as it is time consuming, and even that is being reduced even before the synod is completed.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I have started all the paper work to get an anulment from my first wife, I think my advocate said that I should go ahead and take the classes, then wait for the Tribunal to answer, then I am confirmed, and our marriage can be blessed. Is this order correct?

The normal order would be that you have your marriage convalidated (“blessed”), then are received into the Church, confirmed, and receive the Eucharist. Overall, though, you’re pursuing things correctly. Go ahead with RCIA while the Tribunal deals with your first marriage, then you’ll be ready to move forward.

Welcome home! Many blessings on your journey.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

I guess I will start at the start. I was raised as a Baptist in a fairly religious family, had a young marriage that didn’t work out due to her fidelity issues, refusal to have a family, and various other issues. I tried to make it work, but eventually it ended when I came home from work and was told she wasn’t ‘in love’ with me anymore, wanted to be single, and already had an apartment rented and left.

From what you describe, there are serious impediments to validity here.

I have started all the paper work to get an anullment from my first wife, I think my advocate said that I should go ahead and take the classes, then wait for the Tribunal to answer, then I am confirmed, and our marriage can be blessed. Is this order correct?
I think there was also something in it where, once confirmed, we have to abstain from sex until the annulment is complete? Or was it until the marriage is blessed by a priest?

As your marriage is objectively invalid in the eyes of the Church, if your first wife is still alive, you would ordinarily not be Confirmed until your current marriage is validated. An exception might be made if you were “living as brother and sister.” As this is difficult for many people, the best choice is to pursue the Decree of Nullity ASAP.

Is there a chance that my annulment will be refused, even though I am obviously in a wonderful marriage, blessed with a perfect family because of a mistake of youth?

Anything is possible. There seems to be grounds for a Decree of Nullity, as I noted earlier, so there is no reason to delay.

The Church (and all Christians) remains bound by the teachings of Christ against divorce and remarriage in the case of valid marriages. Modern acceptance of multiple marriages by some Protestants and others is a serious error.

 

[jimsnew]

Thanks. I just wanted to make sure that I had it clear in my head. I will have most of the paperwork done this week to get the annulment in the works. What was throwing me off is that the RCIA classes go till Easter Vigil, but the assumption is that the nullification will take a year. When does the confirmation take place, then? After the previous marriage is declared null? I know this all should have been done years ago, but I feel driven to get it done now.

There is also some comfort for me, mentally, that I am free from the complications that an ex-wife and a troubled previous marriage have caused for me and especially for my wife.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

What was throwing me off is that the RCIA classes go till Easter Vigil, but the assumption is that the nullification will take a year. When does the confirmation take place, then?

When you’re ready.

There’s no requirement that baptized candidates be received into the Church at the Easter Vigil. It’s the practice in many parishes, but the Church has no such requirement. If your pastor is flexible, you could receive your sacraments at any time. On the other hand, he may ask you to wait. It’s something you’ll have to discuss with him once you have a decision from the tribunal.

 

[jimsnew]

Thank you for clearing that up. I have done a lot of studying for the last few years, but still missing some pieces.

Here’s one that has been troubling me.

I have been pretty good about prayer and asking for forgiveness for my mistakes. If I have something I have confessed in prayer years ago, do I need to confess it to a priest once I’m confirmed? It may sound like a stupid question, but I would assume that I would not.

 

[Magdalen2013]

Thank you for clearing that up. I have done a lot of studying for the last few years, but still missing some pieces.

Here’s one that has been troubling me.

I have been pretty good about prayer and asking for forgiveness for my mistakes. If I have something I have confessed in prayer years ago, do I need to confess it to a priest once I’m confirmed? It may sound like a stupid question, but I would assume that I would not.

Assuming you have a valid baptism, you go to Confession BEFORE you’re confirmed. You MUST be in a state of grace to receive the sacrament.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Adult candidates for Confirmation are asked to make a First Confession of their mortal sins since Baptism before Confirmation. The Sacrament of Penance, examination of conscience, and what constitutes mortal sin are covered during RCIA.

 

[jimsnew]

Sounds like I’m getting ahead of myself more than anything else. I guess when I go further, most of the questions will be answered.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Sounds like I’m getting ahead of myself more than anything else. I guess when I go further, most of the questions will be answered.

We can hope they’ll be answered, but you always have CAF as a backup. The only thing I’d caution you about is starting to fret or worry. Just remember that you’re in God’s loving care and all will be well.

 

[jimsnew]

No worries. As a matter of fact, I feel a lot more at peace just since making the decision. It has been stress relief for me.

 

[Gorgias]

There’s no requirement that baptized candidates be received into the Church at the Easter Vigil. It’s the practice in many parishes, but the Church has no such requirement. If your pastor is flexible, you could receive your sacraments at any time. On the other hand, he may ask you to wait.

Hmm… I thought that delegation from the bishop was necessary. Delegation is pretty much automatic for Easter Vigils, but the delegation must nevertheless be given. That means that a confirmation at some other time is possible, but has more to do with the bishop than the pastor. The pastor can request it, but the bishop has to permit it in order for it to happen…

Am I mistaken?

 

[WillyAL]

Is there a chance that my annulment will be refused, even though I am obviously in a wonderful marriage, blessed with a perfect family because of a mistake of youth?

This is a really sticky question that many on here prefer to gloss over because the consequences of this happening can be devastating.

As I understand it, the validity of a marriage is determined at the time of the wedding. If it was valid on that day, according to Catholic teaching, it’s a valid marriage. Events or behaviors that occur during the marriage will not render it invalid. They might give some insight into what was going on at the time of the wedding, but a valid marriage cannot be rendered invalid due to “fidelity issues” that manifest after the wedding. In your case, with so many years (decades, actually) having passed, remembering facts, gathering witnesses, etc., could prove extremely difficult. So yes, unfortunately, the tribunal could very possibly refuse to grant you an annulment. If that turned out to be the case, according to Catholic teaching, you are still married to your first wife, your current marriage is considered an adulterous relationship, and unless you are willing to take some rather drastic measures, you would not be admitted to membership in the Church. What are these drastic measures? My (less than perfect) understanding is that you would be required to separate from your current wife. (28 happy years of marriage, Catholic children, and 5 grandchildren be damned.) A possible alternative might be to keep your family intact, but promise to discontinue any kind of sexual relationship with your wife.

As I have indicated, my understanding of these matters is probably less than perfect. And from my tone you have probably picked up on the fact that I think the Church’s position on marriage and annulment is mindlessly ridiculous. That said, people smarter than me find it to be reasonable, and if membership in the Church is really important to you, it’s something you’re going to have to deal with. My advice would be to get your marriage situation sorted out before bothering with RCIA classes. They might end up being a waste of time - unless you just want to learn a bit about the Church. But even then, RCIA just hits the high points. From my experience, you’re not going to learn much of substance in RCIA. But that’s another post.

Good luck to you. I hope things work out for you.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Am I mistaken?

I don’t know. I’m not finding the specific answer but perhaps I’m not looking in the right place. (It would be helpful if a searchable version of the rite was online but it’s not.)

 

[Phemie]

Hmm… I thought that delegation from the bishop was necessary. Delegation is pretty much automatic for Easter Vigils, but the delegation must nevertheless be given. That means that a confirmation at some other time is possible, but has more to do with the bishop than the pastor. The pastor can request it, but the bishop has to permit it in order for it to happen…

Am I mistaken?

Yes, you are. Canon Law gives the priest the faculty to confirm adults he baptizes or receives into full communion and anyone in danger of dying.

OTOH, he would need delegation from the bishop to confirm a Catholic under normal circumstances.

 

[Gorgias]

Yes, you are. Canon Law gives the priest the faculty to confirm adults he baptizes or receives into full communion and anyone in danger of dying.

OTOH, he would need delegation from the bishop to confirm a Catholic under normal circumstances.

Ahh, yes, that’s where I was mis-remembering: a pastor validly confirms those he’s baptized, but needs delegation to confirm an already-baptized Catholic.

Thanks!

 

[jimsnew]

This is a really sticky question that many on here prefer to gloss over because the consequences of this happening can be devastating.

As I understand it, the validity of a marriage is determined at the time of the wedding. If it was valid on that day, according to Catholic teaching, it’s a valid marriage. Events or behaviors that occur during the marriage will not render it invalid. They might give some insight into what was going on at the time of the wedding, but a valid marriage cannot be rendered invalid due to “fidelity issues” that manifest after the wedding. In your case, with so many years (decades, actually) having passed, remembering facts, gathering witnesses, etc., could prove extremely difficult. So yes, unfortunately, the tribunal could very possibly refuse to grant you an annulment. If that turned out to be the case, according to Catholic teaching, you are still married to your first wife, your current marriage is considered an adulterous relationship, and unless you are willing to take some rather drastic measures, you would not be admitted to membership in the Church. What are these drastic measures? My (less than perfect) understanding is that you would be required to separate from your current wife. (28 happy years of marriage, Catholic children, and 5 grandchildren be damned.) A possible alternative might be to keep your family intact, but promise to discontinue any kind of sexual relationship with your wife.

As I have indicated, my understanding of these matters is probably less than perfect. And from my tone you have probably picked up on the fact that I think the Church’s position on marriage and annulment is mindlessly ridiculous. That said, people smarter than me find it to be reasonable, and if membership in the Church is really important to you, it’s something you’re going to have to deal with. My advice would be to get your marriage situation sorted out before bothering with RCIA classes. They might end up being a waste of time - unless you just want to learn a bit about the Church. But even then, RCIA just hits the high points. From my experience, you’re not going to learn much of substance in RCIA. But that’s another post.

Good luck to you. I hope things work out for you.

Some days, and this is one of those, I don’t know what to do. I may just drop the whole idea, if I go to all this work, just to have my entire family rejected, it isn’t just me, it’s my whole family.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Some days, and this is one of those, I don’t know what to do. I may just drop the whole idea, if I go to all this work, just to have my entire family rejected, it isn’t just me, it’s my whole family.

You’ve talked with your pastor, right? Or someone from the tribunal? Usually they will have a good sense of whether or not you have a case and will discourage you from filing if you don’t. If you haven’t talked with your pastor, that should be the first step.

Don’t forget that the Holy Spirit is leading you through this and will continue to give you the strength you need to pursue it.