I need some help

[irishmac]

Hi everyone,
I received an e-mail from my uncle and was wondering if anyone here could help me refute his claims. It seems that there are some very inherent problems in his e-mail, but I am having some trouble refuting it. I’d like to answer evenything he says, but, I have a tough time debating religion with family. Can anybody help. He lives quite far away, so I only get an occasional opportunity to speak with him. He writes:

In the end, all that matters is that we know God….see John 17:3

We do this most thoroughly by intently studying His word on a daily basis, through prayer and church. If you haven’t studied the Bible either through the Catholic church or otherwise you should drop everything and get this done. Study the Books of John, Romans and Matthew. You will see for yourself God’s Truth in new, intimate ways that you will never get elsewhere…in a Catholic study group or not, God’s Truth remains unchanging, everlasting and alive.

You will come to realize God’s judgment will never include or consider your church attendance record or your knowledge of rites, rituals and traditions of any faith, Catholic or otherwise. It is through faith alone that includes a personal relationship with God and His son Jesus Christ that matters. How can any professing Christian argue that they love God yet will reject His word (Bible) and refuse to read it for an entire lifetime? Listening on Sundays for 10-15 minutes is not the same as studying/reading God’s word each day….I can assure you of this because I have done both…trust me on this, teach your children the same.

Come to a deep understanding of what God defines as self righteous and what His righteousness calls for in daily living if you do not know this already….since you have told me that you do not need to read the Bible because you listen to His word on Sunday’s I suspect there is something here for you to ponder.

I understand that my uncle is deeply confused about the Catholic faith. But, here is th real problem. My uncle is a nominal Catholic who serves his parish by teaching Confirmation classes. If he ever actually was strong in his faith, he lost it when he started attending a Non-Denominational Bible study.

Dominus vobsicum

 

[rwoehmke]

I am not going to be much help, but it sounds to me that your uncle has settled for half a loaf. Does he not understand that the Mass is not merely readings from the Bible and empty ritual. Jesus is first of all present in His Word proclaimed to the congregation in a way different than his presence when we read the Word for ourselves. Does he not realize that Jesus becomes present to us in his fully glorified body in the Eucharist and that we literally and truly stand once more at the foot of the cross during that part of the Mass. Does he not realize that we come together as members of Christ’s Mystical body at Mass. If he is reading Paul’s letters in his bible he should know this. Also when we gather at Mass in Jesus name He becomes present where two or more are gathered in His name. Maybe the man has settled for less than even half a loaf. To read and study God’s word in the Bible is a wonderful thing, but if that is all he is doing it is like visiting a National Park and then experiencing it alone in his motel room by watching a video tape of the park instead of hiking the trials with friends and companions. He may be really studying those scriptures, but he is missing the message. I dare say he probably has the notion of Confirmation rather than being a Sacrament where we encounter the Living Jesus and receive gifts and grace, that it is the confirmand that acts by making a committment to his church.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Hi everyone,
I received an e-mail from my uncle and was wondering if anyone here could help me refute his claims. It seems that there are some very inherent problems in his e-mail, but I am having some trouble refuting it. I’d like to answer evenything he says, but, I have a tough time debating religion with family. Can anybody help. He lives quite far away, so I only get an occasional opportunity to speak with him. He writes:

I understand that my uncle is deeply confused about the Catholic faith. But, here is th real problem. My uncle is a nominal Catholic who serves his parish by teaching Confirmation classes. If he ever actually was strong in his faith, he lost it when he started attending a Non-Denominational Bible study.

Dominus vobsicum

What’s the problem with what’s in the e-mail ? It’s all pretty basic Christianity.​

 

[Immaculata]

Your uncle seems to know little of the true nature of the Mass. He reduces participation in the re-membering of Calvary and the Last Supper and the command to eat My Body and drink My Blood to a roll call and a pointless exercise. A copy of Scott Hahn’s THE LAMB’S SUPPER might help your uncle.

The beauty and splendor of each and every soul receiving and growing by virtue of sancifying grace gives glory to God as He loves us not from afar but within us.

 

[Church_Militant]

In the end, all that matters is that we know God….see John 17:3

We do this most thoroughly by intently studying His word on a daily basis, through prayer and church. If you haven’t studied the Bible either through the Catholic church or otherwise you should drop everything and get this done. Study the Books of John, Romans and Matthew. You will see for yourself God’s Truth in new, intimate ways that you will never get elsewhere…in a Catholic study group or not, God’s Truth remains unchanging, everlasting and alive.

You will come to realize God’s judgment will never include or consider your church attendance record or your knowledge of rites, rituals and traditions of any faith, Catholic or otherwise. It is through faith alone that includes a personal relationship with God and His son Jesus Christ that matters. How can any professing Christian argue that they love God yet will reject His word (Bible) and refuse to read it for an entire lifetime? Listening on Sundays for 10-15 minutes is not the same as studying/reading God’s word each day….I can assure you of this because I have done both…trust me on this, teach your children the same.

Come to a deep understanding of what God defines as self righteous and what His righteousness calls for in daily living if you do not know this already….since you have told me that you do not need to read the Bible because you listen to His word on Sunday’s I suspect there is something here for you to ponder.

I get the impression that he is trying to allege that you do not read the Bible.

You know of course that there are indulgences for reading the Bible. Why would the church do that if they didn’t want us to read it?

Ask him why is Matthew 25:31-46 in the Gospel if what we do has no bearing on how God sees us?
Pax tecum,

 

[Tonks40]

You can say, yes, I agree, all that matters is that we know God. But how do we get to know him? From knowing him - how do we get to love Him? From loving Him, how do we get to being obedient to Him and serving Him, and giving ourselves to Him? From that - how do we get to abide in Him?

He sounds like he’s limiting faith to just reading the Bible - and nothing else. But as a people of the Body of Christ, we are blessed because the Lord has given us many many ways to be able to do ALL of the above! We have the liturgy of the Mass - the Sacraments - in addition to hearing the Word being proclaimed and reading it - all ways that God comes to us and we come to Him. God is not a tally-taker…He’s an action-maker!

Most importantly - we have the Eucharist. What better way is there to be close to God and have him LIVE in us and we live in HIM!

There is more to having faith in Christ than your uncle is willing to emphasize at this point.

 

[Bishopite]

Hi everyone,
I received an e-mail from my uncle and was wondering if anyone here could help me refute his claims. It seems that there are some very inherent problems in his e-mail, but I am having some trouble refuting it. I’d like to answer evenything he says, but, I have a tough time debating religion with family. Can anybody help. He lives quite far away, so I only get an occasional opportunity to speak with him. He writes:

I understand that my uncle is deeply confused about the Catholic faith. But, here is th real problem. My uncle is a nominal Catholic who serves his parish by teaching Confirmation classes. If he ever actually was strong in his faith, he lost it when he started attending a Non-Denominational Bible study.

Dominus vobsicum

You should gently inform him that his “views” aren’t Catholic but Protestant. Perhaps you could “recatechize” him by sending some CD’s by a Catholic apologist or a book like “Upon this Rock” (Stephen Ray) or “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” (Karl Keating). Ask him to show you anywhere in the bible where it couples the words “faith” and “alone” and guide him toward the truth; what he should know as a Catholic so that he doesn’t misguide other unknowing Catholics astray.

christi simus non nostri

 

[Anuarite]

Am I missing something or did you tell your uncle that you did not need to read the bible outside of mass attendance?

The Catholic Church does not ask us to limit our bible reading to what we hear at mass. There are many catholic bible study groups, the CCC is full of bible quotes, many daily prayer devotional books have bible verses for daily meditation, and most of the mysteries of the rosary are based on scriptures …etc. If his only concern is about us not reading the bible then he has no reason to worry, because most of what we do in our “rituals” and activities are taken from the bible. I usually say it’s better to spend your time living the bible than reading it, knowing it, talking about it, quoting it and missing out on living it.
Our Church is a very good teacher when it comes to living the bible. I lived in places where many people were illiterates, reading the bible was not an option for them yet through the teaching of the church they were living the bible, and their faith in Christ and love of Christ was humbling. Ask your uncle about all the Christians who lived prior to the canon of the bible, for about three centuries they did not have the bible they had many writings, among which many non inspired scriptures, but how did they manage? We know that their faith was way stronger than ours. Hundreds of them died for it. Where did that love of Christ come from?

Lovingly In Christ

 

[irishmac]

Am I missing something or did you tell your uncle that you did not need to read the bible outside of mass attendance?

The Catholic Church does not ask us to limit our bible reading to what we hear at mass. There are many catholic bible study groups, the CCC is full of bible quotes, many daily prayer devotional books have bible verses for daily meditation, and most of the mysteries of the rosary are based on scriptures …etc. If his only concern is about us not reading the bible then he has no reason to worry, because most of what we do in our “rituals” and activities are taken from the bible. I usually say it’s better to spend your time living the bible than reading it, knowing it, talking about it, quoting it and missing out on living it.
Our Church is a very good teacher when it comes to living the bible. I lived in places where many people were illiterates, reading the bible was not an option for them yet through the teaching of the church they were living the bible, and their faith in Christ and love of Christ was humbling. Ask your uncle about all the Christians who lived prior to the canon of the bible, for about three centuries they did not have the bible they had many writings, among which many non inspired scriptures, but how did they manage? We know that their faith was way stronger than ours. Hundreds of them died for it. Where did that love of Christ come from?

Lovingly In Christ

No, you are not missing something. I have yet to respond to him yet, and I try to read the Bible and/or the CCC, as well as various other books on a regular basis, outside of Mass attandance.

And I agree with you on everything you said about living the Bible. I try my very best to live a good and faithful life, but sometimes I get “snagged” on the thorns of temptation.

 

[Verita]

In the end, all that matters is that we know God….see John 17:3

We do this most thoroughly by intently studying His word on a daily basis, through prayer and church.

How does he know this? Where has God ever instructed us to know him by reading the Bible? The closest thing are the verses in 2 Timothy where it talks about scripture being useful for teaching etc. and able to make you wise for salvation, but then it’s talking about the Old Testament. Still, it says nothing about Scripture being the best way to know God. It simply isn’t true. The best way to know God is through his Church which is peopled with his representatives who are led by the Holy Spirit to teach his truth.

If you haven’t studied the Bible either through the Catholic church or otherwise you should drop everything and get this done. Study the Books of John, Romans and Matthew. You will see for yourself God’s Truth in new, intimate ways that you will never get elsewhere…in a Catholic study group or not, God’s Truth remains unchanging, everlasting and alive.

If God’s truth truly remains unchanging, then why would it be ok to go to a “Catholic study group or elsewhere” when what is taught in a protestant bible study will in many cases be radically different? If God’s truth is unchanging, then you must pick one or the other. You can’t have two truths. And the fact is that all of the truths to be found in scripture are found to be taught by the Catholic Church. As Scott Hahn has said in his books, just when he thought he had made a huge revelation from his study of the scriptures, he found that the truth he discovered was already taught by the Church. The Bible isn’t in addition to the teachings of the Church, it simply supliments them.

You will come to realize God’s judgment will never include or consider your church attendance record or your knowledge of rites, rituals and traditions of any faith, Catholic or otherwise.

I was under the impression that God’s judgement included doing as He commands. Such as keeping the Sabbath holy, being baptized, eating and drinking His Body and Blood etc.

It is through faith alone that includes a personal relationship with God and His son Jesus Christ that matters.

Can he provide you with a Bible verse that discusses the importance of having a “personal relationship” with God as being a part of salvation? How exactly does such a “personal relationship” with God work? Is there anything more “personal” than partaking of Jesus’ flesh and blood and having him within you every Sunday?

How can any professing Christian argue that they love God yet will reject His word (Bible) and refuse to read it for an entire lifetime?

Wrong. THe Word of God is Jesus, not the Bible. He would know this if he studied the book of John.

Listening on Sundays for 10-15 minutes is not the same as studying/reading God’s word each day….I can assure you of this because I have done both…trust me on this, teach your children the same.

Both are useful and one is not better than the other. The Church encourages us to read and study the Bible. However, it should always be done with the guidance of the teachings of the Church. Peter himself points out that the writings of Paul can be misleading. We should never appoint ourselves as private interpreters of Scripture. It is for the Church to teach us the truth, that is why Jesus created it.

Come to a deep understanding of what God defines as self righteous and what His righteousness calls for in daily living if you do not know this already….since you have told me that you do not need to read the Bible because you listen to His word on Sunday’s I suspect there is something here for you to ponder.

Reading the Bible is a wonderful thing to do. But you are correct in saying that it is not necessary. Ask him if reading the Bible is necessary for knowing God and for knowing how to live righteously (as he seems to suggest) then what happened to all those poor souls throughout the centuries who could not read or affford a Bible and so only were able to hear the scriptures at Mass? Ask him, if what we really need is the Bible then why did Jesus even bother to establish a Church? And what about the people who lived before the Bible was compiled and had only the Church? Doubtless in the beginning there were many Churches who did not even have letters to read, all they had was the oral teachings of the apostles and their successors. Were they saved?