I need to talk about this

[CradleJourney]

I don’t know if it will be helpful to you, but when I run into situations like you describe - either the adamant admonishment of another poster, or a church teaching with which I struggle, I go back to two things:

1. God called me to be part of this Church. I left, but after a long struggle, I had to admit He was directly calling me to be part of it - even though I didn’t/couldn’t/wouldn’t agree with some things. But believing in God, and trusting His knowledge, I returned - issues/problems/doubts/struggles/questions and all.

2)I found this prayer by Thomas Merton that works very well for me -

My Lord God, I have no idea where I am going. I do not see the road ahead of me. I cannot know for certain where it will end. Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think that I am following Your will does not mean that I am actually doing so. But I believe that the desire to please You does in fact please You. And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing. I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire. And I know that if I do this, you will lead me by the right road though I may know nothing about it. Therefore, will I trust You always though I may seem to be lost and in the shadow of death. I will not fear, for you are ever with me, and you will never leave me to face my perils alone.

It sums up for me my struggle with wanting to please God and at the same time not yet having the ability to accept some teachings. I figure God knew what He was getting when He called me back home, and that as long as I continue on my journey of searching/learning/trying/growing, then it’s okay. I can’t nor do I have to become perfectly Catholic instantly, but I’m still not allowed to stay where I am - I need to get better, but that’s going to come in fits and starts and over time as I reform my conscience. Some people may not have had this rocky road to faith and understanding or may have had a shorter journey than I am on - I don’t understand theirs, they don’t understand mine, so I try to keep that in mind when I read replies.

That’s what I do appreciate from these forums - they give me a solid check on what Catholic teaching is and how it should work. Then I can take that information and try to apply it to my journey.

Hope something in there helped.

 

[MaryHelp777]

That is the truth of this religion yes. However I know of other religions who have people who call what we believe false and what they believe to be the truth. I’m not trying to argue that what we believe is false in response to what you wrote.

Either something is right, partially right, or completely wrong.
Something is either good, partially good, or altogether evil.
It cannot be all three.

Even the Bible says: “God is not yes and no.”

That colour on the wall is yellow.

That statement is either true or a lie.
One truth: eg That colour on the wall in my house is yellow.

Many lies: "That colour on the wall is blue, pink,red, purple, silver, gold, black, cyan, turquoise,…

There can only be one truth.
Are you following the one truth. Or one of the many lies out there?

 

[SilverLight]

Either something is right, partially right, or completely wrong.
Something is either good, partially good, or altogether evil.
It cannot be all three.

Even the Bible says: “God is not yes and no.”

That colour on the wall is yellow.

That statement is either true or a lie.
One truth: eg That colour on the wall in my house is yellow.

Many lies: "That colour on the wall is blue, pink,red, purple, silver, gold, black, cyan, turquoise,…

There can only be one truth.
Are you following the one truth. Or one of the many lies out there?

Yes but you say the color is yellow however if someone is taught from a young age that what most say is the color yellow is actually called blue they will believe it.
The color is yellow but how the person sees it may be different.

 

[pianistclare]

You are going to great lengths to disbelieve. Some of us find it relatively easy to believe because we have found incredible peace, consolation, and love in the Church and the Mass. All of us have the occasional worry and doubt. What remains constant is Christ.
Maybe study the scripture and pray a bit on it.
Meet with the parish priest to discuss your doubts an concerns.
At this point, you just seem to arguing around the subject.
I hope you return to a point of faith. The prince of lies would just love for you to remain in a state of confusion.
Peace to you.
I’m out.

 

[SilverLight]

We cannot just pick the religion that seems to be the easiest path and with the rules we agree with.
Because only one of the religions is the Absolute Truth. And the others are either a lie, wrong, or a partial truth.

Jesus did not say; “Make up your own rules that are easiest for you and put you at ease.”
He said “I am Truth.”
Not only that, He said to the High Priest’s question of “Are you the Messiah?”
“I Am.”

Which is the Jewish Name for God.

He said “I and the Father are One.”

“I am The Truth.”
“all who listen to the Truth hear my voice?”

What does Jesus, God the Son, say about each of your “truths”, ?
What does God’s Word the Bible that The Father and Son gave us say about your truths?

As CS Lewis wrote before he converted; "Either Jesus was mad, a liar, or He was telling the Truth! "

Truth. One truth. Jesus and the Roman Catholic Church He founded Himself 2,015 years ago.

He knew others would start up religions that were not the truth, with rules that were not the truth: “Many wolves will come in sheep’s clothing after me, saying “I am he,.” but do not go near them,”

Are you listening to any wolves in your “truths” or to Jesus the Son of God, who said He is The Truth.

Wolf number one: “masturbation”
ST June who was given the Holy Spirit at Pentecostal. Who spoke in tongues, who heard inner locations of the Holy Spirit, who Jesus healed the sick through, wrote in a new Testament letter: “Refrain from unchastity.” “Refrain from sexuality immorality.”
Saint Pope John Paul put his apostolic authority as Jesus Vicar on Earth, the successor of Saint Peter, otherwise catechism, which rules “masturbation under the three conditions of grave matter, full freedom, and deliberately done, is a mortal sin.” A mortal sin committed, means if you die without repenting or confessing means Hell for all eternity.

The aetheists and hardcore sinners finding “upsetting” and “anxiety filled” to hear that their deeds merit eternal damnation,

Jesus didn’t teach us the Truth in the fulfillment of the Old and New Testament to make us “upset” or “anxiety filled” but to Save us! And warn us!

"Narrow is the road that leads to eternal life (Heaven) and there are few who find it "
“wide and easy is the way to eternal perdition (Hell) and there are many who end up there”

Which do you choose the Narrow Road (One absolute Truth that Jesus said He was in the Fullfilment of the Old and New Testament),

Or the wide Road of many false opinions and lies.

You do realize my anxiety does not come just from this stuff but is in fact natural as I have had it since I was little.

Would not a narrow road actually be very easy to follow as it shows you the way to go?

 

[SilverLight]

You are going to great lengths to disbelieve. Some of us find it relatively easy to believe because we have found incredible peace, consolation, and love in the Church and the Mass. All of us have the occasional worry and doubt. What remains constant is Christ.
Maybe study the scripture and pray a bit on it.
Meet with the parish priest to discuss your doubts an concerns.
At this point, you just seem to arguing around the subject.
I hope you return to a point of faith. The prince of lies would just love for you to remain in a state of confusion.
Peace to you.
I’m out.

I am not trying to disbelieve. There are many things in the faith that I think are true I just take things into consideration before diving in head first. I have taken into consideration many of the things people have said to me in this thread also.
Peace to you also

 

[1ke]

Of course Hitler and Stalin are wrong in what they believed.

That is the thing about relativism though. Either everyone gets to pick their own truth (relativism) OR there is a source of truth outside of all of us (God) who tells us what is good and what is evil.

You can’t have it both ways. You cannot say everyone has their own truth, except those people who are obviously wrong. Wrong based on your sense of right and wrong.

Relativism fractures and breaks so easily precisely because it is untenable. Because with relativism it ultimately boils down to “might makes right.”

 

[SilverLight]

That is the thing about relativism though. Either everyone gets to pick their own truth (relativism) OR there is a source of truth outside of all of us (God) who tells us what is good and what is evil.

You can’t have it both ways. You cannot say everyone has their own truth, except those people who are obviously wrong. Wrong based on your sense of right and wrong.

Relativism fractures and breaks so easily precisely because it is untenable. Because with relativism it ultimately boils down to “might makes right.”

Relativism: the doctrine that knowledge, truth, and morality exist in relation to culture, society, or historical context, and are not absolute.

What is right for me is wrong for you because you say its not right in terms of what you believe. No one every said the truth was always a good thing and sometimes the truth hurts a lot.
You have to realize that both Hitler and Stalin also had other things affecting them at the time. It is said that Stalin had a severe anxiety disorder among other things like being paranoid. Therefor you see how in him thinking he may have been doing the right thing for himself he was in fact wrong when looked at from the point of view of a person with a level head.

Tell me then what doctrine that is please.

 

[MaryHelp777]

Yes but you say the color is yellow however if someone is taught from a young age that what most say is the color yellow is actually called blue they will believe it.
The color is yellow but how the person sees it may be different.

So you believe every person can pick what they believe is the truth. That’s where evil comes.from. That’s where sin comes from.

The human being has a Soul.
Either they do or they don’t

We go to Heaven or hell.
Either Heaven and hell are real, or they are not.

Whatever you say SilverLight.
Your decisions are either good or evil in the eyes of God who is looking at you. Regardless of whether you yourself think what you are doing is good or evil.
God the Father KNOWS whether each of your thoughts, words, and deeds are good or evil.

Basically you believe “Whatever I think is true.”
Pigs fly. Monkeys are scientists.
My grandad is a ballerina. I am Queen Cleopatra. I can time travel. Look I’m invisible. I’m supermans nephew.

If I can think it then it must be true.
If someone else thinks it then it becomes true for them.

He thinks he’s a walrus. Shes going to fly without wings later…

Mad
Crazy
Illogical

Just because think it doesn’t mean it’s real.

And in your world, how can any individual know if something is universally good or evil according to the eyes of the One Holy God, if whatever they themselves think is the rules. You see SilverLight, God in Heaven has made the rules, right and wrong, good and evil, we cannot pick what we think is right or wrong or good or evil.

Think of a school where the teachers said: “Whatever rules you believe, keep only those school rules.” madness

Same in any sport.

Anyway, regardless of your “opinion”, God the Father is looking at all your actions and knows whether according to His Law, whether your actions are good or evil.
And you will be accountable to Him when you die, regardless or your opinions.

 

[SilverLight]

Whatever you say SilverLight.
Your decisions are either good or evil in the eyes of God who is looking at you. Regardless of whether you yourself think what you are doing is good or evil.
God the Father KNOWS whether each of your thoughts, words, and deeds are good or evil.

Basically you believe “Whatever I think is true.”
Pigs fly. Monkeys are scientists.
My grandad is a ballerina. I am Queen Cleopatra. I can time travel. Look I’m invisible. I’m supermans nephew.

If I can think it then it must be true.
If someone else thinks it then it becomes true for them.

He thinks he’s a walrus. Shes going to fly without wings later…

Look its not easy for me to explain what I think in writing and I struggle to do so. If I am not clear on something I am sorry.

I do not believe that what ever I think up is true that’s illogical. Because even if I believe there are aliens in the desert that does not make it true. It has a chance to be true but there is no way to say yes. You have to use logic and you make it seem like I go in blind.

 

[PPeterson]

I really like this site and what it has to offer. I was raised Catholic and I have always called myself one. My family may not be like other Catholic families though.

your family is probably pretty normal. A lot of people here have posted 987906896876 times and have never been wrong once. They are truly remarkable, and most of us can’t expect to relate.

 

[LilyM]

Look its not easy for me to explain what I think in writing and I struggle to do so. If I am not clear on something I am sorry.

I do not believe that what ever I think up is true that’s illogical. Because even if I believe there are aliens in the desert that does not make it true. It has a chance to be true but there is no way to say yes. You have to use logic and you make it seem like I go in blind.

Well just because your parents didn’t teach you that masturbation and contraception are wrong doesn’t make you right either. Neither is living in ease always preferable, especially if that ease is based on untruth. And yes, it is quite possible that you are going in somewhat blinded by this whole or partial relativism.

God is truth, Jesus is truth, and if you’re not searching for that truth at all costs, however uncomfortable it may be, you’re risking losing sight of God altogether. Jesus’ truth led Him to the cross, not to a life ease and comfort.

 

[Sneaux]

It wasn’t your fault that you weren’t taught that somethings were wrong, but you must look on the moral side of things, not “Well everyone does it” or “It makes sense if people do this, because…” The Church teachings actually make a lot of sense, I used to pick and choose things, but then I realized…it’s either all true, or it’s all bogus. It either all matters or it doesn’t, and I choose to believe that it’s true and it matters.

 

[SilverLight]

It wasn’t your fault that you weren’t taught that somethings were wrong, but you must look on the moral side of things, not “Well everyone does it” or “It makes sense if people do this, because…” The Church teachings actually make a lot of sense, I used to pick and choose things, but then I realized…it’s either all true, or it’s all bogus. It either all matters or it doesn’t, and I choose to believe that it’s true and it matters.

Thank you for being polite about it.
However I only find some things to be bogus or just make no logical sense in this day and age that are included in the Bible. I’m not saying that everything in it is wrong because there is some good stuff. However we can no longer stone people to death. I mean we can but why would we?

 

[SilverLight]

Well just because your parents didn’t teach you that masturbation and contraception are wrong doesn’t make you right either. Neither is living in ease always preferable, especially if that ease is based on untruth. And yes, it is quite possible that you are going in somewhat blinded by this whole or partial relativism.

God is truth, Jesus is truth, and if you’re not searching for that truth at all costs, however uncomfortable it may be, you’re risking losing sight of God altogether. Jesus’ truth led Him to the cross, not to a life ease and comfort.

I have not exactly had a life of ease personally. Half of my life has been an uphill battle and I give God credit for helping me in some really bad moments. Just because someone is not always looking at every moment does not mean they will not find God.

I also interpret things differently then others and that includes learning. I do this so I can understand what others are saying and that goes for God’s teachings. I get to the same point as everyone else I just go down a slightly different path. My brain works a little differently but that is how God intended for me to be.

He made me this way to either challenge me or show me things in a different light. I’m Dyslexic and no I am not using that as an excuse. I have made it all the way to college so far. I fully believe God made me like this so I could see the struggles there are in life and that things are not easy for everyone. Living like this has made me see things in a different way. I have a different level of understand when it comes to others.

 

[Rbaker]

Well, there are awkward people everywhere, not just online.
But how does that justify continuing in error?
Aren’t we responsible for our own actions?
Doctors correct (or attempt to correct) risky behaviors in their patients. Are they rude? They use facts. For ex: smoke, then high risk of lung cancer. Sin is alike a cancer. It’s there silently destroying your relationship with God. People who care advise you to stop. Why is that perceived as a bad thing? Ultimately, if the person listens and learns, they do better. I think that’s a worthy goal. But then., I’m a Catechist. It’s my job to lead the people to the truth of the Christ’s Church on earth.

See… this post basically proves my point. (I don’t feel this way, but I am just going to explain how this could come across to others, especially those unfamiliar with the site)

Your use of emoticons is just pointless, it makes the poster feel dumb.
Claiming it is YOUR job makes you seem higher in authority, then adding an unnecessary shrug.
It is easy to see how people might be offended by some posts, as they may think we as catholics all think we are perfect and are just here telling ppl why they are wrong

I only say this b/c your point is basically saying people need to hear the truth, which I believe, but some come off as a little cocky or rude. I think we can agree that computer language is much harder to understand than face to face convos.

 

[kptrs]

Yes but you say the color is yellow however if someone is taught from a young age that what most say is the color yellow is actually called blue they will believe it.
The color is yellow but how the person sees it may be different.

But that doesn’t change the fact that it’s yellow.

 

[kptrs]

That is the thing about relativism though. Either everyone gets to pick their own truth (relativism) OR there is a source of truth outside of all of us (God) who tells us what is good and what is evil.

You can’t have it both ways. You cannot say everyone has their own truth, except those people who are obviously wrong. Wrong based on your sense of right and wrong.

Relativism fractures and breaks so easily precisely because it is untenable. Because with relativism it ultimately boils down to “might makes right.”

Exactly this. If everyone can just pick and choose what they believe, anything goes. Absolutely anything. If a given person thinks something is right, we have to respect their opinion no matter what it is.

 

[1ke]

However we can no longer stone people to death. I mean we can but why would we?

Of course we still stone people to death, we just do it with a needle and a cocktail of drugs and call ourselves civilized. The death penalty still exists in society.

The Old Testament contains both the divine law of God and the civil code of Jewish law at that time. Penalties for various infractions of the civil laws, including stoning, were part of that civil law.

It is important to know what you are reading, else you might be under the impression stoning was part of divine law, and it is not. There are many good Catholic study bibles such as the Ignatius Bible, the Navarre Bible and others, it might be helpful to have one.

 

[SilverLight]

Of course we still stone people to death, we just do it with a needle and a cocktail of drugs and call ourselves civilized. The death penalty still exists in society.

The Old Testament contains both the divine law of God and the civil code of Jewish law at that time. Penalties for various infractions of the civil laws, including stoning, were part of that civil law.

It is important to know what you are reading, else you might be under the impression stoning was part of divine law, and it is not. There are many good Catholic study bibles such as the Ignatius Bible, the Navarre Bible and others, it might be helpful to have one.

I never said the death penalty does not still exist because it clearly does.

I was using stoning as an example.