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BlueRubies
Guest
kalt;3569498 said:
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guanophore
Guest
I used to believe this too, until one of the prayer group leaders said about the spirit of heaviness “what did you bring that in here for?” It was quite a wake up call. Thereafter I realized that my primary responsibility in discernment was to myself, and athat I was the one that was oppressed. It is easy to project such things outside ourselves.
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guanophore
Guest
Sometimes it seems that, in an effort to avoid becoming swept away by emotion, some Catholics have overcompensated to the other extreme. However, for Eastern and Traditional Catholics, many have learned to have joy in the ritual itself, and this is experienced profoundly in an inward way, but maybe not visible on the outside.
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jmcrae
Guest
Because in Protestantism, if you don’t feel like going to Church, you just don’t go. There is no “holy obligation” because Protestants don’t see a need for corporate worship. Nice, but not required.
Catholics, by contrast, have to go to Mass, no matter how they feel. So, you are bound to run into a few grumps.
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kalt
Guest
Go to the children’s Mass, and work on manners in church. It will take a while, but it’s worth the effort. You don’t want to be the parent of the unruly 5-yr-old.
It’s not OK to take a loud kid to church, and then use the excuse that the kid is little. You are the partent. Do what’s right. If your kid is so disruptive that people can’t hear (and they don’t have to be in the next pew–sound travels, especially in a church), take the kid outside.
There’s no excuse for rude behavior. Not from the elderly who love to throw “the look” around. And not from young parents who think that they aren’t responsible for their toddler’s behavior in church.
It’s about respecting others. Allowing a toddler to make it impossible for an elderly person to hear the homily is no less rude than throwing “the look”.
We’ve all had 3-yr-olds in church or other public places. It’s our job and responsibility as parents and community members to make sure that they are behaving properly. If they aren’t, it’s up to us to do something about it. If it’s a restaurant, time for doggy bags. If it’s in church, it’s time to take a walk outside. If it’s on the playground, it’s time to go home.
I know the elderly can be cranky, and I’m not making excuses for them when they’re wrong. But I won’t make excuses for parents of toddlers who think that it’s OK to let their kids make noise at church.
We all know the parents who let their kids sing, talk, fuss, etc through the entire Mass. It’s wrong–no two ways about it.
Oh, bring back the 50’s and 60’s, pre-baby boom era parents who weren’t afraid to expect good behavior from their toddlers, and who would see to it that their kids weren’t disturbing others.
Bring back the days when a 3-yr-old was expected to make it through Mass without a toy or food! lol
Bring the kids to the family Mass where some a small amount of incorrect behavior is expected, but remember that a family Mass isn’t license for bad behavior.
Our priest has commented on the downstairs Mass. It was set up at the family Mass ( one Mass upstairs, one downstairs) to allow young families to bring their littlest children to Mass and teach them how to behave. Well, the parents have apparently mistaken the purpose, and think that it means they can take the little kids to the downstairs Mass and let them do as they please the whole time–kids getting up out of their seats and walking around, talking, etc.
If your kid honestly can’t handle sitting for that long without prompting “the look” from others, institute babysitting at your church.
I didn’t say that the elderly’s hearing problem was the fault of the 3-yr-olds, as you implied I did. I don’t blame the 3-yr-olds because an elderly person can’t hear. But I do blame the parents of the 3-yr-olds when they allow the kids to make it impossible for the elderly to hear the Mass.
An occaisional outburst from a 3-yr-old isn’t something anyone would get upset about (except for the elderly look-throwers lol ). Parents who let their kids be disruptive the whole Mass are wrong.
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Lillith
Guest
I have been to protestant churches (I’m Catholic) and there is a different atmosphere to be sure. I went to my SIL Baptist Church and wasn’t prepared for the noise level at all. People talked before and after…loudly…It was fellowship for sure…
I am more somber in Church because I feel that I am in the presence of our Lord in a larger way. Small talk seems so…well, small. I don’t feel like talking about what I did last Friday, or what I’m doing after Church…I am concentrating on my Lord in the Eucharist…who never screams to me He tends to whisper
I think what we’re talking about here are different perspectives. most Protestant denominations are focused on the members naturally. The services are about the sermons and the choir with the singing and whatnot…The whole thing surrounds the people, and it is service oriented.
Catholic Mass is not about the People at all…the people can be there or not…the homily can be five minutes long (I saw that once when the priest had a sore throat) or bad even. A lot of times in my Church there is no Choir, and the singing is regulated to only a few lines…it’s not about any of these things, and so these things don’t matter…it surrounds and is about the Sacrifice of the Mass.
Now…if people are rude and brisk, not smiling afterward and leaving before dismissal…before the Priest…well I always just avoid these types…I’m not there for them. Personally I really only feel peaceful and loved the most during Mass. Last Sunday I didn’t want to leave at all and wished I could stay in that place longer…if not forever…because to me when I am there it is Only me and my Lord…everyone else disappears…it doesn’t matter if they are there
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Carolinagirl411
Guest
About the child issue
I am not a parent…so I hope I do not offend the many wonderful parents out there who happen to have active children/toddlers
I understand that a young child doesn’t understand what’s going on and may not know how to be respectful, not blaming the parent here. But it is really obnoxious to have children screaming their lungs out or chattering or fighting with siblings when the priest is trying to speak. I do not have a hearing problem in the slightest and I always sit up front and I STILL have issues hearing.
The protestants have it right in this issue at least lol it’s called nursery…the children that are too young to understand, go to nursery, learn about Christ in their own active way and the parents actually get to participate in the service without stress. Once they are old enough to regulate their own behavior then parents bring them to the service. I haven’t seen a Catholic church yet that has this option. All i’ve seen is the family room with a tv feed of the mass but it is the parents that deal with the children
I am not a parent…so I hope I do not offend the many wonderful parents out there who happen to have active children/toddlers
I understand that a young child doesn’t understand what’s going on and may not know how to be respectful, not blaming the parent here. But it is really obnoxious to have children screaming their lungs out or chattering or fighting with siblings when the priest is trying to speak. I do not have a hearing problem in the slightest and I always sit up front and I STILL have issues hearing.
The protestants have it right in this issue at least lol it’s called nursery…the children that are too young to understand, go to nursery, learn about Christ in their own active way and the parents actually get to participate in the service without stress. Once they are old enough to regulate their own behavior then parents bring them to the service. I haven’t seen a Catholic church yet that has this option. All i’ve seen is the family room with a tv feed of the mass but it is the parents that deal with the children
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Annie_B
Guest
Emotions were given to us by God. We should all be “swept away” now and then with this wonderful gift! It just might demonstrate to others the joy that our faith brings and they in turn may take a second look!
Annie
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cecilia97
Guest
Amen! Once I finally learned this, I realized it is the key to most of life.
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Ted_in_Charlott
Guest
To Redsox and others, Greetings and Blessings from Charlotte NC, where the population is about 5% Catholic.
As I have found since I converted Easter 2006, we do not have as many options in churchs as when I was Southern Baptist here. So since we are limited here as to where we can go without traveling 25 miles, my wife and I did try out several parishes. We have a couple of favorites now (we just moved to a new part of town) and I think we will soon figure out which we will call home.
Unfortunately, I too ran into a few “rude” people at my first parish, I know you can’t control it. But I just figure they were grumpy old men. The things that bothered me most was nobody has even bothered to call me when I wasn’t there or visit me when I was in the hospital, so I would suspect it is a part of that church’s overall leadership.
But I am blessed in the 2 parishes we are deciding on they are much more 'friendly". One actually has “greeters” and lots of children and life.
So just hang in there and try out other parishes and find one you like. I will tell you that Catholics are just like everybody else, some nicer than others.
As I have found since I converted Easter 2006, we do not have as many options in churchs as when I was Southern Baptist here. So since we are limited here as to where we can go without traveling 25 miles, my wife and I did try out several parishes. We have a couple of favorites now (we just moved to a new part of town) and I think we will soon figure out which we will call home.
Unfortunately, I too ran into a few “rude” people at my first parish, I know you can’t control it. But I just figure they were grumpy old men. The things that bothered me most was nobody has even bothered to call me when I wasn’t there or visit me when I was in the hospital, so I would suspect it is a part of that church’s overall leadership.
But I am blessed in the 2 parishes we are deciding on they are much more 'friendly". One actually has “greeters” and lots of children and life.
So just hang in there and try out other parishes and find one you like. I will tell you that Catholics are just like everybody else, some nicer than others.
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Pinkyyy
Guest
Well, IMO, kids are going to be kids. This is why Catholic churches need to start having volunteers AND pay a registered childcare person to stay with the children during the mass. Catholics are such big supporters of NFP, yet some want to complain when children are being a little unruly. One priest was so sick and tired of people complaining about the children that he addressed the issue - which I was very happy for. He told the congregation that we should not forget children are God’s gift and that they are still immature and looking to adults for guidance. While this is true, you can not always control children and a parent should not have to miss mass because of this. He said he was always happy to hear the sounds of children and people need to stop looking at this as a burden. i happen to agree with him.Go to the children’s Mass, and work on manners in church. It will take a while, but it’s worth the effort. You don’t want to be the parent of the unruly 5-yr-old.
It’s not OK to take a loud kid to church, and then use the excuse that the kid is little. You are the partent. Do what’s right. If your kid is so disruptive that people can’t hear (and they don’t have to be in the next pew–sound travels, especially in a church), take the kid outside.
There’s no excuse for rude behavior. Not from the elderly who love to throw “the look” around. And not from young parents who think that they aren’t responsible for their toddler’s behavior in church.
It’s about respecting others. Allowing a toddler to make it impossible for an elderly person to hear the homily is no less rude than throwing “the look”.
We’ve all had 3-yr-olds in church or other public places. It’s our job and responsibility as parents and community members to make sure that they are behaving properly. If they aren’t, it’s up to us to do something about it. If it’s a restaurant, time for doggy bags. If it’s in church, it’s time to take a walk outside. If it’s on the playground, it’s time to go home.
I know the elderly can be cranky, and I’m not making excuses for them when they’re wrong. But I won’t make excuses for parents of toddlers who think that it’s OK to let their kids make noise at church.
We all know the parents who let their kids sing, talk, fuss, etc through the entire Mass. It’s wrong–no two ways about it.
Oh, bring back the 50’s and 60’s, pre-baby boom era parents who weren’t afraid to expect good behavior from their toddlers, and who would see to it that their kids weren’t disturbing others.
Bring back the days when a 3-yr-old was expected to make it through Mass without a toy or food! lol
Bring the kids to the family Mass where some a small amount of incorrect behavior is expected, but remember that a family Mass isn’t license for bad behavior.
Our priest has commented on the downstairs Mass. It was set up at the family Mass ( one Mass upstairs, one downstairs) to allow young families to bring their littlest children to Mass and teach them how to behave. Well, the parents have apparently mistaken the purpose, and think that it means they can take the little kids to the downstairs Mass and let them do as they please the whole time–kids getting up out of their seats and walking around, talking, etc.
If your kid honestly can’t handle sitting for that long without prompting “the look” from others, institute babysitting at your church.
I didn’t say that the elderly’s hearing problem was the fault of the 3-yr-olds, as you implied I did. I don’t blame the 3-yr-olds because an elderly person can’t hear. But I do blame the parents of the 3-yr-olds when they allow the kids to make it impossible for the elderly to hear the Mass.
An occaisional outburst from a 3-yr-old isn’t something anyone would get upset about (except for the elderly look-throwers lol ). Parents who let their kids be disruptive the whole Mass are wrong.
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Ted_in_Charlott
Guest
The Nursery is one option I had in the SB church, I guess the RC church just does things different:
Some parishes have crying rooms, a separate partitioned off area available for parents of small children. St Vincent DePaul in Charlotte is one example.
Other’s have a mass specifically for teens, a mass for parents of younger children. A Spanish Mass I liked to go to has lots of young children with a little noise but the music rocked, very lively and joyful. Some Masses were like a “derge” or funeral march. I do remember a TV show a long time ago that said “Catholics mourn their faith”. I personally like lively, loving Charismatic type Mass, “If you are happy and you know it, clap your hands” type stuff.
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
You think you have troubles in a crowd: Try and picture Jesus given his testimonies, babies crying, people talking, others even contesting Jesus publicly, not to mention they tried to stone him because he revealed to them he is the “I Am”.
Be a light unto the darkness of the world, give respect and honor to those who are underserving, so that our Father in heaven may be glorified. We can only give what he have. God sees all, Recall your baptism, you have died to self and arisen in Jesus Christ. Carry your cross and follow Jesus. Confront evil with Love, this is the weapon of resistance against the evil powers and principalities. Dont fear those who can kill the flesh, Fear God who can take away the body and soul. Dont fear man, Gain the Fear of Losing God, that is why Jesus instituted the ministry of reconciliation (confession). If you are going to explore and search for Jesus, you need not look anyfurther than the Eucharist, we have Jesus promise to be present with his Catholic church body, blood,soul and divinity. Once a true Christian gains these mysteries of God, you will need to look no further.
P.S What I have stated above is not easy for me to say, because I battle daily to try and walk this faith,
Peace be with you.
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Ted_in_Charlott
Guest
Agree, children are like angels singing. Sometimes the angels just sing a little off tune or too loud for some others. We are the adults and we should be tolerant and patient.
However, speaking to my fellow parents, if your child is pitching a fit, it is your responsibility to remove the child from the church until he calms down. I had to remove my son on more than one occassion, just to be considerate.
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Faithx6
Guest
Excellent observation. You put the whole kids acting up at Mass issue into its proper perspective!!
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mercygate
Guest
I teach 6th grade CCD.
When my kids were small, they came to Church on Sunday – and we spent a LOT of time walkin’ around the parking lot. I can tell in my classes which kids were brought to Mass and were chased around or given the garden tour. Kids who grow up in Church tend to GO to Church. They are a whole different creature from the kids whose parents didn’t bring them.
So bring those kids to mass. Chase 'em when they escape. Take 'em out when they become disruptive. It will pay off later in life. But by NO MEANS allow them to make scenes without correction. Your consistent management is what turns them into ladies and gentlemen who respect others and know how to act in public.
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kalt
Guest
We have a nursery at my church. It’s only for the youngest children–kids up to age 3, and 4-yr-olds if they have behavior issues. It’s expected that by age 4, the kids should be able to handle a Mass fairly well, or at least should be working toward that at the Mass.
We don’t have a crying room, which I think is a shame. The parish I grew up in had a crying room that was seperated from the main church by a glass window. The sound was piped in. It was great. But even in there, I clearly remember parents expecting their kids to behave.
Now that I think about it, it was always the mothers in there with the kids. The fathers were in the main church. I think a young father today would catch heck for that.
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kalt
Guest
My pastor has said the same thing, but he also added that there is a limit to what is acceptable, even from a baby or toddler. It’s not the kid’s fault. It’s the parent who has to draw the line and do something about it.
Kids will be kids. True. Now we just wish parents would be parents!
(BTW, that’s the guidance your pastor was talking about.)I think your babysitting idea is great. We have it already at my parish. Will you be calling your pastor today to voluteer?
“Catholics are such big supporters of NFP, yet some want to complain when children are being a little unruly.”
This gave me a little chuckle. Yes, the CC apparently is a big supporter of limiting family size, hence their disatisfaction with parents who can’t control the 1 or 2 young children they have in tow.
My mother went to church with four kids aged 4 and younger. My grandmother took 6 little ones!
How have we lost these skills?
I teach 1st grade CCD, so I know that learning is a process. I also know that these kids need to be taught. Allowing them to act however they please because they’re 3 isn’t teaching them. EVen the tiniest kids are far more capable than Americans give them credit for. .
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mercygate
Guest
Just thought this should be posted again. In bold type.
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