I Really Need a Neutral Party's Opinion...Huge Dilemma

[GreatBeliever]

So the long and short of it is my wife and I have been married for a year. The past year has been very hard for us, but we are still trying to make things work. We have been looking to buy a house in a particular area close to my family, but nothing in our price range has been available. The other day we finally found THE house we’ve been looking for…great right? Not exactly.

When my wife and I were married I came into the marriage with well over $100,000, she came in with debt. We rushed the marriage and never had a pre-nuptial agreement. I talked to her about buying the house and putting in my name, until things between us are secure, and then switching it over. She was not having any part of this, she insisted her name be on the house. She said she would sign a post-nuptial agreement, but that she absolutely would not live in a house that was not in her name. She went as far as to say she would rent an apartment if I bought the house in my name. To me that seems completely unrational.

I can sympathize with how she must feel, but both of my parents were divorced before they met, and both lost almost everything they had to their spouses. I’m simply trying to protect myself in case things don’t work out between us. I know we probably shouldn’t buy a house until we have things figured out, but I personally have been trying to find a house close to my family, and it has been very difficult and I don’t want to miss this opportunity. I’ve tried to be flexible and offer her other compromises, but she won’t budge an inch off her position.

Does anyone have any advice?

 

[jilly4ski]

I am sorry this might come off as harsh.

But you wanted her to sign a pre or post nuptial agreement!!!:eek
As a Catholic going into marriage this is totally unacceptable. Marriage is a sacrament not simply a contract that we can disolve at will. When we marry (sacramentally) you become one flesh and all your stuff is her stuff and vise versa. The very fact that you are trying to “protect yourself” if it doesn’t work out is not a good reason.

I am in complete agreement with your wife. Look at it from her perspective, if things are not going well now and you buy a house in only your name, how easy will it be for you just to kick her out one day when you are fed up with her or find someone better? (I am not saying you will do this, but the very fact that you want to do this because you are not sure things will work out, would come off as a threat to her).

The only reason to actually do this legally would be if she was defaulting on debt and you were trying to protect both of you from getting kicked out on the street. Then you should contact a lawyer to make sure that you would be protected. But this did not seem to be the reason you want the house only in your name, therefore it is not a legitimate reason.

I guess practically you should not buy a house at this time and work on your issues as a couple. I hope you work things out.

 

[flyingfish]

So the long and short of it is my wife and I have been married for a year. The past year has been very hard for us, but we are still trying to make things work. We have been looking to buy a house in a particular area close to my family, but nothing in our price range has been available. The other day we finally found THE house we’ve been looking for…great right? Not exactly.

When my wife and I were married I came into the marriage with well over $100,000, she came in with debt. We rushed the marriage and never had a pre-nuptial agreement. I talked to her about buying the house and putting in my name, until things between us are secure, and then switching it over. She was not having any part of this, she insisted her name be on the house. She said she would sign a post-nuptial agreement, but that she absolutely would not live in a house that was not in her name. She went as far as to say she would rent an apartment if I bought the house in my name. To me that seems completely unrational.

I can sympathize with how she must feel, but both of my parents were divorced before they met, and both lost almost everything they had to their spouses. I’m simply trying to protect myself in case things don’t work out between us. I know we probably shouldn’t buy a house until we have things figured out, but I personally have been trying to find a house close to my family, and it has been very difficult and I don’t want to miss this opportunity. I’ve tried to be flexible and offer her other compromises, but she won’t budge an inch off her position.

Does anyone have any advice?

You’re not being reasonable. If your wife lives in the house, she will be putting either her own money into it in terms of mortgage/utility payments, or she will be contributing to the marriage via being a homemaker.

What you’re doing is asking her to be your slave, in a sense. On account of you having more savings for the downpayment, you want the whole family property to be entirely yours even though she will be contributing to it.

Doing this would be a big disadvantage for your wife, and it’s natural that she wouldn’t go for it. For example, without you there she could eventually save up for the downpayment for her own house and be a homeowner. A far better financial outcome than investing all her money and energy into a house someone else owns. (This is from the financial aspect alone, there would also be quite strong emotional reactions to a man who wanted to own the family home on his own.)

If you want things to be fair, why don’t you put your 100k aside into a savings account and don’t touch it at all. Then buy a house together with your wife even if it means waiting longer for the downpayment.

Not to be harsh, but you are being a fool. You’re so afraid of the outcome of divorce, but you’re going to cause a divorce with your behavior.

 

[VetA]

So the long and short of it is my wife and I have been married for a year. The past year has been very hard for us, but we are still trying to make things work. We have been looking to buy a house in a particular area close to my family, but nothing in our price range has been available. The other day we finally found THE house we’ve been looking for…great right? Not exactly.

When my wife and I were married I came into the marriage with well over $100,000, she came in with debt. We rushed the marriage and never had a pre-nuptial agreement. I talked to her about buying the house and putting in my name, until things between us are secure, and then switching it over. She was not having any part of this, she insisted her name be on the house. She said she would sign a post-nuptial agreement, but that she absolutely would not live in a house that was not in her name. She went as far as to say she would rent an apartment if I bought the house in my name. To me that seems completely unrational.

I can sympathize with how she must feel, but both of my parents were divorced before they met, and both lost almost everything they had to their spouses. I’m simply trying to protect myself in case things don’t work out between us. I know we probably shouldn’t buy a house until we have things figured out, but I personally have been trying to find a house close to my family, and it has been very difficult and I don’t want to miss this opportunity. I’ve tried to be flexible and offer her other compromises, but she won’t budge an inch off her position.

Does anyone have any advice?

you should take the time to research the catholic position on pre nups. they take God out of the arrangement. onece you take your wedding vows they are an insolvable bond before the eyes of God

 

[JohnDamian]

What is more important too you, your marraige or your money?

From here it looks like you love your money more, and this must be distressing too your wife.

Do the right thing!

 

[senoraavila777]

Well when you get married you normally join assets, what is wrong with the house being in both your names? Don’t you respect her enough to include her in this huge asset.

 

[flyingfish]

… not to mention that your behavior would be very unattractive to a woman. Women want their men to be providers, and your anxiety about money and the desire to protect yourself at the expense of your wife is just generally very unmasculine and unattractive.

It’s understandable that you want to protect yourself, but you have to understand that you may well lose your wife’s trust and desire for you. You’re looking out for yourself at her expense. Understandable? Of course. Attractive? Absolutely not.

If your wife is a desirable woman, she might well ask herself why not find a man who will be the provider and protector type and who would put her ahead of himself.

 

[GreatBeliever]

Wow, thank you all for your help. I guess I have been a bit of a fool…or a huge fool. Sometimes I guess it’s easy to take your eyes off the big picture. I guess I have some apologizing to do…probably nothing some flowers and chocolates can’t fix…hopefully. I guess I needed to get beat over the head to see the truth, plus the Catechism helps too.

It can seem difficult, even impossible, to bind oneself for life to another human being. This makes it all the more important to proclaim the Good News that God loves us with a definitive and irrevocable love, that married couples share in this love, that it supports and sustains them, and that by their own faithfulness they can be witnesses to God’s faithful love. Spouses who with God’s grace give this witness, often in very difficult conditions, deserve the gratitude and support of the ecclesial community.

Thank you all again.

 

[rick43235]

Does anyone have any advice?

While I can sympathize with what your wife might be feeling, as one who has suffered through a financially devastating divorce, I can very much appreciate your predicament. If I were in your shoes, I would forgo the purchase of the house and keep your money where it is until you get your marriage situation resolved. If after only one year of marriage you have serious concerns about it not working out, chances are it won’t.

What is more important too you, your marriage or your money?

Oh come on. Of course a marriage is more important than money. But if the OP’s marriage is already circling the drain, it would be foolish to throw his financial security into the drain with it.

 

[aicirt]

I believe when a person marries, he/she automatically assumes responsibility for the other’s debts. I’m thinking if a marriage did go south in a situation like this, the wife would get at least half of the house since her name is on it. He could be held responsible for at least half her debt is she was still working or all of it if she was unable to work.

Son of friend was marrying girl with $75,000 in college debt and wanted to borrow money so they could buy a house. His parents insisted that she sign a pre-nup. Why? Because he could be fully responsible for her debt, she could get to live in the house and him out especially if there were children, and they could not reasonably assume he could repay them with these added expenses.

 

[revert_jen]

Just a quick note–

Keeping the “divorce option” open makes divorce more likely. If you look at your marriage as something that you are stuck with forever, no matter what, you will treat your wife differently. If you are sticking to your marriage no matter what, you will want your wife to be happy, because it will make your home happier. If you are still evaluating her, to decide whether your marriage is going to work out or not, she will know that. Nobody wants to feel like they are on trial for the first year of their marriage and more.

She may be doing the same things to you as well (and if so, you know that it’s no fun to be on trial for a year!), but looking for things to be “fair” in marriage never works. You need to give all you can give, not all you think is fair. And maybe you want to talk to her if you are going to change your behavior so she doesn’t think you’re trying to make up for cheating on her or something.

You really sound like you mean well, but nobody teaches these things any more, and your two divorced parents may not even know…

Best of luck!

–Jen

 

[former_Catholic]

Buying a house is a gargantuan stress on a marriage and comparable to mountain climbing, with crampons and ice axes, and roped together.
Buying a house is very often the sailing of the Titanic that sinks the marriage.
Buying a last-chance on-sale-now housing market markdown, last-chance-opportunity ticket on the Titanic… is still buying a ticket on the Titanic.

You do not want to be buying a house until your marriage issues are very solidly worked out and the two of you are not only on the same page, but reliably singing a steady rock-solid reliable harmony with one another on every issue the two of you have got.
You two have got major issues. If her name is on the house, you figure you could lose everything you put into it. If her name is not on the house, you could be hit by a bus tomorrow and then she (and any possible children) could lose everything she put into it. You guys have got MAJOR issues between you that need working out before you ever get anywhere near buying a house.

If finding a good house in a suitable location has been difficult… that may be the great gift that allows you two the time and space in order to get your other issues worked out first…
because if you thought those issues were significant now…
buying a house will amplify them, no matter what. Guaranteed.

You might consider renting a copy of the old movie “The Money Pit” with Tom Hanks and Shelley Long to watch together and discuss the issues it raises for the two of you.
It is a comedy… but there is a whole lot of truth in it about home ownership stress on marriage.
You can easily verify that truth by walking into any home improvement store and asking any long married couples shopping the aisles or any of the clerks who have worked in the home improvement field for many years.

 

[sanctareparata]

If my fiancé would have asked me to sign a pre-nup, I would have realized

1. He doesn’t trust me
2. He already thinks I’m a burden to him and
3. He doesn’t understand the sacrament of Matrimony

He would have not only gotten the pre-nup back, unsigned, but his diamond too.

I’m glad you realize you’ve been a fool, OP.

 

[graceandglory]

So the long and short of it is my wife and I have been married for a year. The past year has been very hard for us, but we are still trying to make things work. We have been looking to buy a house in a particular area close to my family, but nothing in our price range has been available. The other day we finally found THE house we’ve been looking for…great right? Not exactly.

When my wife and I were married I came into the marriage with well over $100,000, she came in with debt. We rushed the marriage and never had a pre-nuptial agreement. I talked to her about buying the house and putting in my name, until things between us are secure, and then switching it over. She was not having any part of this, she insisted her name be on the house. She said she would sign a post-nuptial agreement, but that she absolutely would not live in a house that was not in her name. She went as far as to say she would rent an apartment if I bought the house in my name. To me that seems completely unrational.

I can sympathize with how she must feel, but both of my parents were divorced before they met, and both lost almost everything they had to their spouses. I’m simply trying to protect myself in case things don’t work out between us. I know we probably shouldn’t buy a house until we have things figured out, but I personally have been trying to find a house close to my family, and it has been very difficult and I don’t want to miss this opportunity. I’ve tried to be flexible and offer her other compromises, but she won’t budge an inch off her position.

Does anyone have any advice?

See a priest. It doesn’t sound like you have a very Catholic understanding of Sacramental Marriage. Did you or did you not choose to marry your wife? Debt and all?
You did or didn’t marry her of your own free will?

When you use the words, “Protect myself” in relation to your wife, I’m a bit concerned about your understanding of being a self gift in your marriage.

Read the Book of Ruth.

 

[graceandglory]

What is more important too you, your marraige or your money?

From here it looks like you love your money more, and this must be distressing too your wife.

Do the right thing!

A wife knows when she isn’t loved. That will be more stressful than buying any house.

 

[former_Catholic]

I guess I have some apologizing to do…probably nothing some flowers and chocolates can’t fix…hopefully.

Financial issues and issues of trust are major issues in relatiionships.
Apologies, flowers and chocolates do not fix major issues in relationships.
Seeking counseling (spiritual, financial, and psychological) and serious committed work on communication skills is what it takes to resolve major issues in relationships.
It takes serious skills… spiritual, financial, and psychological… to create and maintain a household.

 

[monicatholic]

Financial issues and issues of trust are major issues in relatiionships.
Apologies, flowers and chocolates do not fix major issues in relationships.
Seeking counseling (spiritual, financial, and psychological) and serious committed work on communication skills is what it takes to resolve major issues in relationships.
It takes serious skills… spiritual, financial, and psychological… to create and maintain a household.

wow. great getting-to-the-heart-of-it post. i add this:

it takes skills AND graces,

graces comes first. ray with her, go to confession with her, never miss Mass with her.

then skills: try dave ramsey. many of my friends swear by his program and when we looked into it, we learned we were doing so much of the program already (and will step up to the total deal this fall.)

 

[flyingfish]

Financial issues and issues of trust are major issues in relatiionships.
Apologies, flowers and chocolates do not fix major issues in relationships.
Seeking counseling (spiritual, financial, and psychological) and serious committed work on communication skills is what it takes to resolve major issues in relationships.
It takes serious skills… spiritual, financial, and psychological… to create and maintain a household.

Excellent advice.

You might need counselling generally because you seem to have been so deeply affected by your parents’ divorces.

Marriage is always a risk, without even the financial aspect. If you try to guard yourself against the financial risk of marriage, you run the risk of alienating your wife by asking for a prenup or wanting the house to be in your name only.

You have to be aware of all these risks and judge what is acceptable to you.

By the way, how iron clad are things like having the house be in your name or prenups anyway? Wouldn’t that be up to the judge to decide in the case of divorce anyway? I don’t know that much about it, but I have heard of prenups being contested and thrown out before. It would seem to be more for a marriage where there is a great disparity in wealth (i.e. for the very wealthy to protect their family wealth).

You just can’t eliminate all the risks from your life, and maybe counselling would help you to make more reasonable rather than fear based choices.