I really need advice on a heart breaking situation

[BLB_Oregon]

avgguy:

Yes by all means “TELL HER PARENTS AND TELL HER YOU ARE GOING TO” THIS WAY SHE WILL NEVER TELL YOU A THING AGAIN AS YOU ARE BREAKING AN unspoken TRUST.

The problem with this line of thinking is that the parents have put their trust in this mentor, too. The mentor needs to explain that to the girl, and then encourage the girl to go to her parents herself. But withholding the information from the parents entirely is unethical. If the girl won’t tell, the mentor has to.

avgguy:

NOW ON TO ANOTHER THING, op POSTED THAT SHE IS AFRAID THE GIRLS PARENTS WILL THINK SHE THINKS SHE IS BETTER AT “RAISING KIDS” THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE op IS SHOWING, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER TO UNDERMINE THIS GIRLS PARENTS ON YOUR BELIEFS.

they have a right to how they believe and you have a right to how you believe,and shame on you for causing this girl even more confusion by trying to "brainwash her " against her parents.
If i was the parents i would not only stop you from seeing her i would seek legal damages against you,esspecillay if this girl ends up pregnant and somehow gets a complication from it.
you know nothing of this girls actuall background medically or religiously yet you are taking it upon yourself to tell her she shouldnt listen to hetr parents, what part of honor they parents do you not understand, you are causeing her to break one rule to follow another rule, you are leading her down a bad path of destruction as well and causing her much harm.

I think its awesome and great to care so much no doubt but what you are doing is wrong by undermining her parents.
sorry if i was so direct but this called for it.its fine to recommend her to go to church etc,
but to actually tell her to disobey her parents, thats so bad…
unbelievable actually,

As to the general principle, you are right that parental authority should be respected whenever possible. Still, it is no sin to advise someone to disobey an authority figure, even a parent, when to obey would be a violation of moral law. This isn’t a matter of opinion or “belief,” but a matter of truth. The mentor has the duty to tell the girl the truth about what the moral law is, even if that means contradicting the parents’ version of right and wrong.

If her parents were trying to talk her into having sex with their friends for money or to lie for them to cover crimes, for instance, you would agree that it would not be a violation of their parental rights to advise–even to insist!–that the girl act otherwise, right? So how is it unbelievable that a Catholic might advise her that a reasonable course of abstinence is preferable to taking birth control in preparation for premarital sex?

By a reasonable course of abstinence, I mean telling her the truth about what precautions of behavior will be required if she wants to avoid premarital sex. It is highly unlikely that she would succeed, otherwise. Sending her out on her own willpower alone would be begging for a out-of-wedlock pregnancy, STDs, or both. That would be unethical, you are right.

mommyaprilj:

THIS mom is the one you are obligated to report to the authorities. What she is doing is illegal. It’s called contributing to the deliquency of a minor also abuse and neglect of minors.

Call Child Services and report them, they will investigate

This is the best advice yet. The girl be mentored is not the only one we ought to be concerned about.

 

[mrs_abbott]

I, too, am a big sister. I have a Little Sister named Summer. She’s eleven right now and will be twelve in July.
She’s the sweetest girl and I love her to death. This year is her first year in middle school and I’ve noticed some changes in her. They’re not bad but she’s definitely taken a strong interest in boys and likes putting on make-up and all that.
I was always a bit of a tomboy growing up so I wasn’t interested in that stuff until junior year in high school.
Anyways, I guess the point I’m trying to make is you can be there, as her friend, but you can’t get mixed up in what her parents are doing. Encourage her to talk to a relative about this that she feels comfortable with. I know you want to help her but all you can do is help her as a friend.
I hope things get better for her, I really do.

ridesawhitehors:

This poor kid has the worst parents when it comes to this subject. But they insist that she maintain straight A’s, clean room, and all that **** - but they are throwing her to the lions otherwise. I worry about her also that she is borderline anorexic…Size 1 and image obsessed. But more then anything it is driving me crazy that her parents don’t even care if boys are taking her for a test drive!

 

[avgguy]

BLB_Oregon:

The problem with this line of thinking is that the parents have put their trust in this mentor, too. The mentor needs to explain that to the girl, and then encourage the girl to go to her parents herself. But withholding the information from the parents entirely is unethical. If the girl won’t tell, the mentor has to…

the way I am reading this is its not a true mentorship but more of a family friend type thing,I still think a key to keeping communications open is to talk to girl only and NOT the parents.
I know if this was me someone was going to “rat out” I would never again have anything to do with them,and I would probably lie like crazy and in this case would probably make them believe me esspecially when i tell my parents exactly what i have been told by this person up to and including that she told me to go against thier wishes on certain key issues,whos going to look bad here, and who then will be the loser, the girl will be the loser because she then wont have a “friend” to talk things to in a safe manner to get straight answers, instead she will go to friends whom know less and will steer her in wrong directions,
as a very old saying goes sometimes you have to lose ground to gain ground,

As to the general principle, you are right that parental authority should be respected whenever possible. Still,

BLB_Oregon:

it is no sin to advise someone to disobey an authority figure, even a parent, when to obey would be a violation of moral law. This isn’t a matter of opinion or “belief,” but a matter of truth. The mentor has the duty to tell the girl the truth about what the moral law is, even if that means contradicting the parents’ version of right and wrong…

I never said she couldnt suggest it but she Basically in all essence ordered this girl to “not allow her parents to push ABC on her” this is not giving her a church teaching or morla view on it she is “pushing HER view”, telling this girl that the church does not condone ABC and why is fine and dandy, however to directly tell her to do something against her parents is not.

also on the part about going to child family services, this may seem like a great idea however,I deal with kids in homes where this organization has stepped in,

1. they hardly ever do any good but always seem to cause extra problems
2. depending on the girls age, nothing may be able to be done anyways,you have to relize it may be underaged sex but is the male also underaged if so there are no legal laws to enforce.
   and If the male is over age 16 but has the parents concent to be with this girl assuming she is over the age of 13 again no legal issues, there is a key word in the laws you think are there and that is “consent”
   Laws of consent are very “open” to judgements.
   now if they are allowing alcohol or drugs then things can be easier
   to get child welfare involved.

But also relize the legal implications of such a thing , you better have and be able to prove your claim when you call or you open yourself up to legal issues as well, esspecially being as you are “involved” with this child/teen…

.

If her parents were trying to talk her into having sex with their friends for money or to lie for them to cover crimes, for instance, you would agree that it would not be a violation of their parental rights to advise–even to insist!–that the girl act otherwise, right? So how is it unbelievable that a Catholic might advise her that a reasonable course of abstinence is preferable to taking birth control in preparation for premarital sex?.

I agree anytime you “talk” about things in a manner that is more teaching then ordering.telling her about church views is fine,
she also needs to know that listening to her parents is also church taught…

.

By a reasonable course of abstinence, I mean telling her the truth about what precautions of behavior will be required if she wants to avoid premarital sex. It is highly unlikely that she would succeed, otherwise. Sending her out on her own willpower alone would be begging for a out-of-wedlock pregnancy, STDs, or both. That would be unethical, you are right…

I am a huge believer in this as well,

 

[Urf]

This is a complicated situation, and while the parenting here is rather flawed, it is important to remember that you arent the parent here, and that means you dont have final say. If you know she is no longer a virgin, fine. If you dont think that’s a good thing, fine. But you arent the parent, and that means you cant control everything here. That means if she’s going to be having sex, you shouldnt be telling her to never ever accept contraceptives, because all it’s going to do is make her a lot more likely to end up a single parent, and while you may think that better than using contraceptives, that isnt really the issue.

You have to remember that ultimately the parents can do whatever they want, and your influence is limited regardless of the child’s desires. I think you’re better off trying to correct the parenting of her instead of failing at replacing it.

Edit: I just wanted to say that I didnt mean to come across as saying that you have done something wrong or failed this girl in any way. I’m sure your intentions are for the best, it’s just that this situation isnt as simple as doing just what appears to be best. Remember that the parents dont need to be Catholic or to believe in God to encourage the same values for their daughter. When the time comes and she is independent, the influence you have had on here will take shape regardless of whether or not it directly includes God until then.

 

[ridesawhitehors]

UPDATE:

 Thank you everyone for your (name removed by moderator)ut. It is interesting to see the varied and opposed opinions.

I need to make clear this is not a formal big sis/little sis program.
I am just very close to this family, have been for years - and the daughter is nearly part of my family.
In regards to advise about contraception. I had to laugh that avggguy said he would seek legal action against me. LOL! It just doesn’t fit this situation.
But seriously, this girl seeks out my advice and clings to our friendship because I tell her THE TRUTH. It is not that I am pushing religion on her. I never do that - EVER. I believe she persues our friendship (IMO) because it is the only godly, stable and truthful friendship she has and it is different then anything else she is hearing.
If I were to agree with her parents advice to go on birth control - and to go ahead with fornication then** I** would be sinning. And I’m not going to Hell for ANYONE.
I have told her Mom face to face - that I contradict her contraception advice. She knows I am a hard core catholic. It is not like I am hiding anything.
They still approve and encourage our friendship. It seems to me like they want her to get my advice because they don’t have the courage to uphold chastitiy and purity as a model themselves - so they are using me instead. You know?

Now - as far as coming in direct contradiction to parental advice in private. Yes, I have done that. I agree with BLB_Oregon that I am morally obligated to object to bad advice. I think it is a matter of courage to a degree.

Fortunatly, I think this kid has learned her lesson… for now.

  I have not told Mom about the drug and sex house thing yet, but I'm going to when the time is right. It is a very delicate situation. The girl said she was not going to return there ever. I figure I better let that one go for now for the sake of maintaining our friendship.  I will wait for the right time.

 There are few easy answers. I do pray every day for her...

I ask that she be placed in the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and I pray that her angel protect her. It is a long term project.
I resolve to be faithful, and I just can’t represent myself as condoning something that would harm her.
Kids are smart. And I think sometimes she is testing to see if I will blink - like her parents do - and give up on the high standards I have represented. If I do that it is also a sin. There are higher things at stake here then covering my butt.

 

[ridesawhitehors]

It seems then that there are 2 questions -

1. The question of my arrogance to contradict her parents advice in private.
2. And the question of the advice itself, being; “Do not accept your parents offer or insistance of contraception.”

 

[Della]

ridesawhitehors:

It seems then that there are 2 questions -

1. The question of my arrogance to contradict her parents advice in private.
2. And the question of the advice itself, being; “Do not accept your parents offer or insistance of contraception.”

It may be that this assessment is true of some of the advice you’ve received in the thread, but it does not represent mine–I hope!

I think you have gotten overly involved in this girl’s life–out of the best of intentions. It’s a sticky situation, which you know, so I don’t have to go into all that–again.

Just be careful you don’t find yourself so involved that you cease to be of real help. These people need professional help to correct their obviously harmful ideas concerning what is right and wrong for minors to do. It wouldn’t be beyond the bounds of decency to turn them in to social services for putting their daughter into situations that clearly violate the law. I just think this whole thing is a bit beyond you, which is why you feel so frustrated. Talk to your priest about it and see if he doesn’t say the same.