I really need advice

[Michcool1012]

Hi all,

I saw the post here about homosexuality here so I thought this would be an appropirate place to post this.

I have been tossing on this issue so much it’s driving me crazy. YES I have been having relationships with other men. I repressed these feelings ever since I was younger (16, 17, etc) and finally couldent take it anymore and finally gave in at 22. I’m 24 now. I just feel like I cant stop these feelings, but I do find women attractive still.

I talked to my priest about it. He simply said if I’m gay, then I’m gay. But he added that it’s important to keep the faith. How many agree/disagree with this?

I’m also reading a book called “What the bible really says about homosexuality” Written by the PhD. Thelogian Catholic Priest Danial A. Helminiak, it is really hard to argue against his points that the bible is actually neutral on the subject. I just can make a decisive answer for myself and I am in turmoil. Please any advice would be great.

 

[Acapiteadcalcem]

Hi all,

I saw the post here about homosexuality here so I thought this would be an appropirate place to post this.

I have been tossing on this issue so much it’s driving me crazy. YES I have been having relationships with other men. I repressed these feelings ever since I was younger (16, 17, etc) and finally couldent take it anymore and finally gave in at 22. I’m 24 now. I just feel like I cant stop these feelings, but I do find women attractive still.

I talked to my priest about it. He simply said if I’m gay, then I’m gay. But he added that it’s important to keep the faith. How many agree/disagree with this?

I’m also reading a book called “What the bible really says about homosexuality” Written by the PhD. Thelogian Catholic Priest Danial A. Helminiak, it is really hard to argue against his points that the bible is actually neutral on the subject. I just can make a decisive answer for myself and I am in turmoil. Please any advice would be great.

A couple of things…
(1) You are not alone. I was reading Augustine yesterday on the very issue of personhood; the very nature of existence for us in the mortal coil is one of struggle and seeking. But Christ gives meaning, even to our innermost struggles.
(2) Our earthly struggles are often compounded by habit; habits are difficult qualities to overturn. Good habits are virtues; bad habits are vices. Pope John Paul II called the journey in the virtue of chastity an ‘apprenticeship’, which I think is a beautiful expression: it reminds us that orienting ourselves towards Christ is a life-long journey, but one in which, if we trust, the victorious outcome is already assured.
(3) Be wary–very wary–of those who seem to suggest that interpretation of Sacred Scripture is a matter of exegetical thinking. I haven’t read Helminiak, so I offer this in general terms: the Bible belongs to the Church; it is the revealed word of God. It is not a neutral book open to individual interpretation, but is the living word to a living Church. Only the Church is the authentic interpreter of Scripture, no individual is. The teaching of the Church, and her interpretation of scripture, is totally consistent and not ambiguous in reference to homosexual acts: homosexual activity is a gravely disordered act, contrary to natural law.
(4) Having homosexual inclinations in itself is not wrong; dwelling on thoughts or acting out these temptations is. But every human being, married, straight, gay–we are all called to a life of chastity consistent with the circumstances of our life. God would never demand of us something that is impossible for us. There are many gay men (and women) out there who master their sexuality, and find peace in Christ and the Church.
My advice would be to find a good confessor who is faithful to the Church. No one who tries to compromise on this issue will lead you to authentic peace.
Peace & prayers. +

 

[David89]

Hi all,

I saw the post here about homosexuality here so I thought this would be an appropirate place to post this.

I have been tossing on this issue so much it’s driving me crazy. YES I have been having relationships with other men. I repressed these feelings ever since I was younger (16, 17, etc) and finally couldent take it anymore and finally gave in at 22. I’m 24 now. I just feel like I cant stop these feelings, but I do find women attractive still.

I talked to my priest about it. He simply said if I’m gay, then I’m gay. But he added that it’s important to keep the faith. How many agree/disagree with this?

I’m also reading a book called “What the bible really says about homosexuality” Written by the PhD. Thelogian Catholic Priest Danial A. Helminiak, it is really hard to argue against his points that the bible is actually neutral on the subject. I just can make a decisive answer for myself and I am in turmoil. Please any advice would be great.

The bible is neutral on homosexuality?

“Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Although scripture is important, you may or may not believe the Bible is nuetral on homosexuality but we must remeber the Bible is not our only source of teachings. we also have the teachings of the magistrium which we must abide by.

…Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. (CCC paragraph 2357)

The Church does teach us that we are not to commit homosexual acts.

This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.(CCC para: 2358)

This may be a trial for you, but be aware the Church accepts you as a person 100% and welcomes you with open arms.

Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.(CCC para: 2359)

This paragraph sums it up for me where it says people who feel attracted to the same sex are called to chastity. To me it is much the same as my attraction to members of the opposite sex, yet because I am not in a position to use the sexual act in a way specified by God (ie:married) I do my best to remain chaste and avoid other sexual acts such as self abuse.

Stay strong in Christ and pray

 

[divinefaith]

I’m also reading a book called “What the bible really says about homosexuality” Written by the PhD. Thelogian Catholic Priest Danial A. Helminiak, it is really hard to argue against his points that the bible is actually neutral on the subject. I just can make a decisive answer for myself and I am in turmoil. Please any advice would be great.

This book written by a theologian?
what did the priest mean when he said, if you’re gay you’re gay? Does he mean you’re gay therefore stay celibate or you’re gay you have a right to have a boyfriend?

 

[admonsta]

The bible is neutral on homosexuality?

I think he meant that the bible does not explain whether a person can control their attractions or not…

er, actually, re-reading that, I’m concerned that maybe the author of the book really is trying to say the bible IS neutral on the morality of same sex relationships.

OP, I’m not sure if the help you are asking for is to decide if same sex relationships are morally okay, or if you want help trying to avoid engaging in them.

I’m probably not equipped to help you with the first option, except to explain that I don’t know whether a person is born that way or becomes that way or a mix of both. From anecdotal evidence some people have successfully modified their attractions, but it’s not proof that all who are thus attracted can change. I do believe that God commands that we adhere to the natural law in terms of sex and marriage, but once again it’s for people more knowledgeable than me to explain it better (and this PhD Priest bothers me). Ask God to help you discover the truth.

As for the second option, there are programs I know very little about that claim to help, there are support groups and websites you can make use of. I think that dedicated prayer and penances would be most beneficial to you, as well as time in front of the Blessed Sacrament.

Lastly, remember that if you have trouble stopping the behaviour, go to confession frequently. Don’t despair that you are beyond help because we all have our own failings and we are all repeat sinners (me included ). It may take a long time, but if you maintain faith and hope, God will see you right.

 

[Philotheatoo]

Let’s deal with this matter as simply as possible ~ if you are not married and you are having sex, you are committing a mortal sin.

Whether you are gay or not, repressing lustful thoughts and/or actions is NOT harder for you than it is for the rest of us.

Sacrifice.

 

[admonsta]

Let’s deal with this matter as simply as possible ~ if you are not married and you are having sex, you are committing a mortal sin.

**Whether you are gay or not, repressing lustful thoughts and/or actions is NOT harder for you than it is for the rest of us. **
Sacrifice.

Pardon me for playing devil’s advocate, but it might be harder. I have noticed that everyone seems to have a particular thing (or two) that they struggle with. Some people struggle with sins of the flesh, others with gluttony and others with pride, gossip, etc. Some people just don’t seem to be able to stop themselves. I’ve seen friends who know what the right thing to do is, but keep going back to their vice. For example, my brother was an alcoholic. He developed pancreatitis and every time he drank he’d end up doubled over in pain for days. But he still kept drinking. I know this is an addiction and you might see it as different, but I see these things as a sort of spectrum of more and less difficult to resist.

Doesn’t make it right, but I think we all have a different path and some have it easier. Having said that I am very mindful of the quote from the parable of the faithful servant (Luke 12:35-48):

But he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. And unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required: and to whom they have committed much, of him they will demand the more.

I wonder if (and I’m not at all claiming this, but wondering) a person with same sex attraction would have more trouble resisting this compulsion, and has to struggle a lot harder to squash it.

 

[Saburo]

Whether you are gay or not, repressing lustful thoughts and/or actions is NOT harder for you than it is for the rest of us.

Sacrifice.

I was about to say this very thing. You are attracted to women, but you choose to sin with another man. Why? If you are going to commit a mortal sin, why choose the more reprehensible variety? Someday, you may find yourself married to a woman. Do you intend to disregard your marriage vows and have relationships with men? This would be similar to a heterosexual, married man having an affair with a brunette simply because she is attractive in a way different than his blonde wife. It’s a lousy excuse, and it is not harder for you to tamp down your SSA than it is for any of us to stay faithful to our spouses. That is not to say it is easy, but chastity is not easy for most. Yet, God has given you the ability to resist this sin if you only embrace and exercise that ability. The fact that you struggle rather than entirely give in shows that you have the start of a successful fight. Keep trying, and stay away from the “gay lifestyle” in every form. It is poison that will kill you.

BTW, Daniel A. Helminiak is a homosexual and an activist resigned from the priesthood. He is not exactly coming from a neutral corner when he tries to tell you that the Bible is neutral on homosexuality. You could say he has an ax to grind.

 

[Dorothy]

This site is an organization to encourage those who have same-sex attraction and want to live a chaste life. If there are no such groups near you they will counsel by telephone.

couragerc.net/

 

[puzzleannie]

I’m also reading a book called “What the bible really says about homosexuality” Written by the PhD. Thelogian Catholic Priest Danial A. Helminiak, it is really hard to argue against his points that the bible is actually neutral on the subject. I just can make a decisive answer for myself and I am in turmoil. Please any advice would be great.

it is actually rather easy for an orthodox scripture scholar to argue against his thesis because it is a tissue of lies. you can find many refutations on-line probably links here on past threads here or on apologetics or scripture forum.

for the moral issue you personally are grappling you need to find a good priest who preaches true strong Catholic moral teaching, not someone who discounts some varieties of sin and temptation. Your immortal soul is at stake, as well as your earthly health and happiness, so it is not a light matter, nor is it a matter of do what feels good to you. There can be no relativism on choices that are so destructive in so many ways. know that you are not alone, that many saints before you have gone through the same struggles, and step back from harmful relationships and work on the virtue of friendship, which does not seek to use others for personal gratification, but rather to love them as Christ does, for their own selves.

Whatever burdens we are given become our cross, the one we take up daily in order to follow Christ, and because he alone can make all things new and turn evil to good, becomes our own personal path to salvation when we conquer.

 

[St_Francis]

Pardon me for playing devil’s advocate, but it might be harder. I have noticed that everyone seems to have a particular thing (or two) that they struggle with. Some people struggle with sins of the flesh, others with gluttony and others with pride, gossip, etc. Some people just don’t seem to be able to stop themselves. I’ve seen friends who know what the right thing to do is, but keep going back to their vice. For example, my brother was an alcoholic. He developed pancreatitis and every time he drank he’d end up doubled over in pain for days. But he still kept drinking. I know this is an addiction and you might see it as different, but I see these things as a sort of spectrum of more and less difficult to resist…

I see what you are saying, but I think what she was saying was that homosexual temptations are not inherently more difficult to resist than any other temptations. We each have our crosses, and each person has a different “most difficult” cross.

But God gives us the grace we need to resist oir temptations, and more the more we resist and pray for them, prayer being in the broad sense of prayer, mortification (like obedience, adherence to our state of life, and voluntary sacrifices), and almsgiving (both in the form of giving money and helping those less fortunate than we).

 

[thistle]

Hi all,

I saw the post here about homosexuality here so I thought this would be an appropirate place to post this.

I have been tossing on this issue so much it’s driving me crazy. YES I have been having relationships with other men. I repressed these feelings ever since I was younger (16, 17, etc) and finally couldent take it anymore and finally gave in at 22. I’m 24 now. I just feel like I cant stop these feelings, but I do find women attractive still.

I talked to my priest about it. He simply said if I’m gay, then I’m gay. But he added that it’s important to keep the faith. How many agree/disagree with this?

I’m also reading a book called “What the bible really says about homosexuality” Written by the PhD. Thelogian Catholic Priest Danial A. Helminiak, it is really hard to argue against his points that the bible is actually neutral on the subject. I just can make a decisive answer for myself and I am in turmoil. Please any advice would be great.

The Bible is most definitely NOT neutral on homosexuality.

Lev 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.

Lev 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, they have committed an abomination; the two of them shall be put to death; their bloodguilt is upon them.

Jude 7 Likewise, Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual promiscuity and practiced unnatural vice, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Rom 1:26-27
26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.

1 Tim 1:8-10
8 We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law,
9 with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers,
10 the unchaste, sodomites, kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching

1 Cor 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites
10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[TheDoctor]

Hi all

Hi and welcome to the forums.

I saw the post here about homosexuality here so I thought this would be an appropirate place to post this.

I have been tossing on this issue so much it’s driving me crazy. YES I have been having relationships with other men. I repressed these feelings ever since I was younger (16, 17, etc) and finally couldent take it anymore and finally gave in at 22. I’m 24 now. I just feel like I cant stop these feelings, but I do find women attractive still.

As was mentioned in the posts about, there are two issues here my brother. The first is that you are having sex outside of marriage. It doesn’t matter if it is with a man, woman, sheep, chair, etc. This is something we can all control (and we all stuggle with) regardless of our sexual orientation.

The second issue is same sex attraction whether you are homosexual or bisexual. This one is more of a cross than the first.

I talked to my priest about it. He simply said if I’m gay, then I’m gay. But he added that it’s important to keep the faith. How many agree/disagree with this?

Perhaps what Father meant was that being gay or bisexual in and of itself is not a sin. It is when we give in to those desires and act on them that sin enters. As an analogy, if you were to be sexually attracted to 12 year old girls that would not in and of itself be a sin, however acting on it would be (and a felony to boot)

I’m also reading a book called “What the bible really says about homosexuality” Written by the PhD. Thelogian Catholic Priest Danial A. Helminiak, it is really hard to argue against his points that the bible is actually neutral on the subject. I just can make a decisive answer for myself and I am in turmoil. Please any advice would be great.

Anyone can write a book even people with lots of letters after their name. What you need to consult is solid church teaching such as the catechism or the Courage Ministry couragerc.net/. Perhaps you have SSA because God is calling you to a life of chastity for some greater purpose or perhaps this will pass. You don’t know unless you let God work in you.

We - you, I, all the posters here, have our crosses to bear. This one is yours at this time of your life but Jesus will help you to carry it if only you slide over and hand it to him. I sense the pain in your post and I will keep you in my prayers this evening.

 

[michelleds]

hello and welcome to CAF,

There are several of us here at CAF who have struggled with the sin of homosexuality and embrace the Church’s teachings regarding Chastity. You should not feel alone in your struggle.

I would strongly suggest that you visit the Courage website linked in a post above, there is more than ample information about the Church’s teachings as well as advice on those pages.

I strongly suggest that you find a priest who is in agreement with those teachings to be both your spiritual advisor and your confessor.

Go to confession regularly and frequently, even weekly at first.

Partake of the Sacraments often.

Pray.

Chastity, friendship, happiness are all part of the path to holiness, to which we are ALL called.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Let’s deal with this matter as simply as possible ~ if you are not married and you are having sex, you are committing a mortal sin.

Whether you are gay or not, repressing lustful thoughts and/or actions is NOT harder for you than it is for the rest of us.

Sacrifice.

There is no greater imperative for homosexuals to act out than there is for heterosexuals. There is no evidence that homosexuals are unable to control their passions (and thus morally excused from indulging in them), whereas supposedly heterosexuals are.

Thus, there is no moral argument or social justice argument that provides an ‘exception’ for homosexual activity as opposed to outside-of-marriage heterosexual activity.

 

[Michcool1012]

I think he meant that the bible does not explain whether a person can control their attractions or not…

er, actually, re-reading that, I’m concerned that maybe the author of the book really is trying to say the bible IS neutral on the morality of same sex relationships.

OP, I’m not sure if the help you are asking for is to decide if same sex relationships are morally okay, or if you want help trying to avoid engaging in them.

I’m probably not equipped to help you with the first option, except to explain that I don’t know whether a person is born that way or becomes that way or a mix of both. From anecdotal evidence some people have successfully modified their attractions, but it’s not proof that all who are thus attracted can change. I do believe that God commands that we adhere to the natural law in terms of sex and marriage, but once again it’s for people more knowledgeable than me to explain it better (and this PhD Priest bothers me). Ask God to help you discover the truth.

As for the second option, there are programs I know very little about that claim to help, there are support groups and websites you can make use of. I think that dedicated prayer and penances would be most beneficial to you, as well as time in front of the Blessed Sacrament.

Lastly, remember that if you have trouble stopping the behaviour, go to confession frequently. Don’t despair that you are beyond help because we all have our own failings and we are all repeat sinners (me included ). It may take a long time, but if you maintain faith and hope, God will see you right.

It is very clear of what he made this book for. Helminiak, a Roman Catholic priest, has done careful reading in current biblical scholarship about homosexuality. While cautioning against viewing biblical teaching as “the last word on sexual ethics,” he stresses the need for accurate understanding of what the biblical “facts” are and concludes that “the Bible supplies no real basis for the condemnation of homosexuality.”

Thanks for you’re thoughts on the matter.

 

[Michcool1012]

Pardon me for playing devil’s advocate, but it might be harder. I have noticed that everyone seems to have a particular thing (or two) that they struggle with. Some people struggle with sins of the flesh, others with gluttony and others with pride, gossip, etc. Some people just don’t seem to be able to stop themselves. I’ve seen friends who know what the right thing to do is, but keep going back to their vice. For example, my brother was an alcoholic. He developed pancreatitis and every time he drank he’d end up doubled over in pain for days. But he still kept drinking. I know this is an addiction and you might see it as different, but I see these things as a sort of spectrum of more and less difficult to resist.

Doesn’t make it right, but I think we all have a different path and some have it easier. Having said that I am very mindful of the quote from the parable of the faithful servant (Luke 12:35-48):

I wonder if (and I’m not at all claiming this, but wondering) a person with same sex attraction would have more trouble resisting this compulsion, and has to struggle a lot harder to squash it.

I’m not trying to say anyone is wrong or whatever, but from personal experience it is such a strong feeling for me, rarely subsides briefly, and comes back as strong as ever. I’m trying to find some addictive behavior to compair it to but I dont really have any other addictive habits.

 

[Michcool1012]

This book written by a theologian?
what did the priest mean when he said, if you’re gay you’re gay? Does he mean you’re gay therefore stay celibate or you’re gay you have a right to have a boyfriend?

Yes a theologian and, according to the book, a current priest within the church.

Anyways I do not know what he meant that is litterly all he said to me when I told him what I’ve been doing. That, and its “important to keep the faith” It was for sure the shortest confession I had.

 

[Michcool1012]

I was about to say this very thing. You are attracted to women, but you choose to sin with another man. Why? If you are going to commit a mortal sin, why choose the more reprehensible variety? Someday, you may find yourself married to a woman. Do you intend to disregard your marriage vows and have relationships with men? This would be similar to a heterosexual, married man having an affair with a brunette simply because she is attractive in a way different than his blonde wife. It’s a lousy excuse, and it is not harder for you to tamp down your SSA than it is for any of us to stay faithful to our spouses. That is not to say it is easy, but chastity is not easy for most. Yet, God has given you the ability to resist this sin if you only embrace and exercise that ability. The fact that you struggle rather than entirely give in shows that you have the start of a successful fight. Keep trying, and stay away from the “gay lifestyle” in every form. It is poison that will kill you.

BTW, Daniel A. Helminiak is a homosexual and an activist resigned from the priesthood. He is not exactly coming from a neutral corner when he tries to tell you that the Bible is neutral on homosexuality. You could say he has an ax to grind.

Let me try to clear this up, yes I am attracted to women, but I feel this horribly strong feeling with men. I do not experience that with women. That is what makes it so hard to control this behavior. It feels like im actually addicted to something, like im on cocaine or whatever.

And it is confirmed that Helminiak is a homosexual and resigned from the church?

 

[Michcool1012]

The Bible is most definitely NOT neutral on homosexuality.

Lev 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.

Lev 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, they have committed an abomination; the two of them shall be put to death; their bloodguilt is upon them.

Jude 7 Likewise, Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual promiscuity and practiced unnatural vice, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Rom 1:26-27
26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.

1 Tim 1:8-10
8 We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law,
9 with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers,
10 the unchaste, sodomites, kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching

1 Cor 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites
10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Yes, I am aware of these quotes but taking direct quotes from the bible is usually something reserved for a pentecostal or a few other branches (no offense) Even due to the first issue of mistranslations from Hebrew to English etc

This is from the aformentioned book:

“biblical scholarship holds that these believers’ conception of inerrancy is naively based, for English versions of the originally Hebrew and Greek scriptures are rife with problematic translations. Some scholars further maintain that the supposedly antihomosexual passages are not blanket condemnations of homosexual persons and acts. Indeed, in some cases, these verses aren’t about homosexuality at all; they meant quite different things to those for whom they were first written, peoples whose social conceptions of sexuality were vastly different from ours. Helminiak provides cogent, accessible precis of these revisionist findings on the Bible’s six major passages and few minor references that seem to denounce homosexuality. The Bible does not condemn gay sex as we understand it today, he concludes; those who seek to know outright if gay or lesbian sex is good or evil . . . will have to look elsewhere for an answer.”