I really struggle with being a "liturgy snob"

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victrolatim

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When I was a kid I came from a parish that was/is “stuck in the 70s” with all-contemporary all the time mentality, swaying and holding hands in the pews, tie dye, priest playing guitar at the altar etc. I found this so distasteful at the time that I left that church (age 18) and didn’t attend another until I found the extraordinary form at age 20. With that I found a group of people who, although nice, gave me plenty of polarizing literature to read (Matt, Ferrara, Vennari, etc) including some very blatant anti-Semitic stuff. For a few years I strictly attended the EF, as I had had the OF leave that bad taste in my mouth. I became disenchanted with all the fringe SSPX type stuff as I noticed that everything was always negative or slanted negative, and it was never that we were “one holy Catholic church” it was always sort of a “them against us” mentality. This is when I started listening to EWTN and going to daily (OF) Mass (I figured that if I go to an early Mass I tend to avoid any type of music or whatnot that I would find distracting).

My problem that I struggle with is that I get distracted if there is something in the liturgy that isn’t exactly right. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a blatant abuse, it could be an ad-libbed phrasing, bad sermon, clapping in church, etc. I HATE it. I don’t want to be a nit-picker but it seems to be my cross now. I have found it useful some times to just close my eyes (seeing everyone raising arms during the Lord’s Prayer drives me nuts). I know that there is nothing wrong with the validity of 99% of the Masses I am at but I just find myself so easily distracted that my mind wanders. I’m looking for strategies to combat this. I try to mentally picture Our Lord’s Passion or repeat in my mind the names of the people whose intentions I am remembering. That seems to help, but sometimes I am just completely thrown off guard (One time I ended up at a Mass with electric guitars and drums, the Mass was perfectly fine but the music just kept bringing me back to those problems I had a decade ago).
 
victrolatim said:
When I was a kid I came from a parish that was/is “stuck in the 70s” with all-contemporary all the time mentality, swaying and holding hands in the pews, tie dye, priest playing guitar at the altar etc. I found this so distasteful at the time that I left that church (age 18) and didn’t attend another until I found the extraordinary form at age 20. With that I found a group of people who, although nice, gave me plenty of polarizing literature to read (Matt, Ferrara, Vennari, etc) including some very blatant anti-Semitic stuff. For a few years I strictly attended the EF, as I had had the OF leave that bad taste in my mouth. I became disenchanted with all the fringe SSPX type stuff as I noticed that everything was always negative or slanted negative, and it was never that we were “one holy Catholic church” it was always sort of a “them against us” mentality. This is when I started listening to EWTN and going to daily (OF) Mass (I figured that if I go to an early Mass I tend to avoid any type of music or whatnot that I would find distracting).

My problem that I struggle with is that I get distracted if there is something in the liturgy that isn’t exactly right. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a blatant abuse, it could be an ad-libbed phrasing, bad sermon, clapping in church, etc. I HATE it. I don’t want to be a nit-picker but it seems to be my cross now. I have found it useful some times to just close my eyes (seeing everyone raising arms during the Lord’s Prayer drives me nuts). I know that there is nothing wrong with the validity of 99% of the Masses I am at but I just find myself so easily distracted that my mind wanders. I’m looking for strategies to combat this. I try to mentally picture Our Lord’s Passion or repeat in my mind the names of the people whose intentions I am remembering. That seems to help, but sometimes I am just completely thrown off guard (One time I ended up at a Mass with electric guitars and drums, the Mass was perfectly fine but the music just kept bringing me back to those problems I had a decade ago).
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I think you and I are in a similar situation, except I have never regularly attended the EF Mass (though I really still wish I could). On one hand, I think it’s perfectly OK to desire the Liturgy to be as good as it can - we the faithful deserve good Liturgy; it is our right, and so on one hand, as long as one is being charitable about it and doing whatever one can to fix it (sometimes one can’t do anything though), then I think it’s okay to comment on what you wish would be different. On the other hand, though, yes, we can’t let it affect our spiritual lives too much - there’s got to be a balance. We’ve got to realize that at least at this stage in the Church, things are rarely going to be how we want them to be, and things will be a lot easier if we can just accept this reality.

It’s something I really struggle with too, and perhaps one could chastise me for my following statement, but I stand by it - there’s absolutely nothing wrong with hoping for awesome Liturgy, and I think it’s perfectly OK to voice our concerns with what goes on in our Liturgy today, and there’s got to be that sense of striving for the ideal. It’s just that there ALSO has to be that balance - I think it’s okay to accept the reality of the way things are, as long as there’s still that sense of striving to make things better according to our abilities and our state in life.

At this current stage in the Church, as I mentioned above, I really wish I could just attend the EF Mass every day, and I know I would love that so much, but in reality, with us “liturgy snobs” there’s always something we can complain about, and I know this firsthand because I have thought about/noticed things I wish would be better in some EF Masses, so it’s not an OF exclusive thing (though it’s a reality that it is certainly much more likely to happen at an OF Mass). In the end, we still have to acknowledge that at least we have the sacraments, in whatever form, and at the very least we have to be grateful to God for that! I mean, I know I certainly need any graces I can get, so in the end, I’m still thankful for the opportunities I do have. 🙂
 
I think there are a lot of us “liturgy snobs” around. : )
My children were puzzled (in a bad way) when they sang some song like “Shine Jesus” at a school Mass a few days ago. I’m disturbed that the bad liturgical training continues for the young, even now (and has gotten worse in my parish).
I try not to notice it too much, but my whole family will discuss it on the way home from church. (how awful the bongos were, how the Mass was not so weird under the previous pastor, etc.).

I wish there was an easy answer. Maybe we should talk to the pastor, as we know the hippie-types might complain if all Gregorian chant were instituted?
 
Good for you for noticing your issue!

Have you ever read “The Screwtape Letters” by C.S. Lewis? He talks about use of sensory affect by a demonic tempter in training to distract people from the Mass and elicit a sense of pride or distaste toward the Mass, clergy, or churchgoers. It’s a light hearted, eye opening read. I saw so many of my own prideful behaviours in the book that it have me tons of ammunition to get over myself. Seriously. I used to be such a judgmental curmudgeon about everything-- clapping, babies crying, phones ringing, meandering homilies, hippie music, people singing off key or responding off pace, elderly people passing gas, etc. None of that matters an iota. I realized that it was MY problem and that I was letting myself miss an opportunity to celebrate and thank God, and that was a real failing on my part.

What worked for me was reading more broadly about the Eucharist, Eucharistic adoration, and the beauty of the Paschal sacrifice. It enriched my appreciation of the perfect gift that we receive so unworthy in Mass! We are literally experiencing heaven on Earth by being in God’s presence. Isn’t that amazing?!?! It’s beyond comprehension, isn’t it? Let that idea wash over you for a few minutes.

I try to go to adoration a few minutes before Mass to immerse myself in God–even just kneeling and praying in the pew works, too. It puts me in a mindset of gratitude. This was one of my favourite books, which I highly recommend:

tanbooks.com/index.php/mass-eucharist/blessed-eucharist-our-greatest-treasure-1647.html

With God in your heart and mind, you could be surrounded by a herd of snorting wildebeests and be joyful still for the opportunity to receive God. You can overcome those distractions and be a full participant in the Mass. Heck, why not offer your next Mass for the intention of your full participation in Mass for the benefit of sinners everywhere? I bet God will help you! 🙂
 
alphawoman said:
Good for you for noticing your issue!

Have you ever read “The Screwtape Letters” by C.S. Lewis? He talks about use of sensory affect by a demonic tempter in training to distract people from the Mass and elicit a sense of pride or distaste toward the Mass, clergy, or churchgoers. It’s a light hearted, eye opening read. I saw so many of my own prideful behaviours in the book that it have me tons of ammunition to get over myself. Seriously. I used to be such a judgmental curmudgeon about everything-- clapping, babies crying, phones ringing, meandering homilies, hippie music, people singing off key or responding off pace, elderly people passing gas, etc. None of that matters an iota. I realized that it was MY problem and that I was letting myself miss an opportunity to celebrate and thank God, and that was a real failing on my part.

What worked for me was reading more broadly about the Eucharist, Eucharistic adoration, and the beauty of the Paschal sacrifice. It enriched my appreciation of the perfect gift that we receive so unworthy in Mass! We are literally experiencing heaven on Earth by being in God’s presence. Isn’t that amazing?!?! It’s beyond comprehension, isn’t it? Let that idea wash over you for a few minutes.

I try to go to adoration a few minutes before Mass to immerse myself in God–even just kneeling and praying in the pew works, too. It puts me in a mindset of gratitude. This was one of my favourite books, which I highly recommend:

tanbooks.com/index.php/mass-eucharist/blessed-eucharist-our-greatest-treasure-1647.html

With God in your heart and mind, you could be surrounded by a herd of **snorting wildebeests **and be joyful still for the opportunity to receive God. You can overcome those distractions and be a full participant in the Mass. Heck, why not offer your next Mass for the intention of your full participation in Mass for the benefit of sinners everywhere? I bet God will help you! 🙂
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Your post is very helpful. However, I point out that snorting wildebeests don’t know any better. 🙂
 
And I will add that I dislike dedicating certain Mass formats for certain demographic subsets of the parish is misguided. Creating “schisms”–children’s Mass, contemporary Mass, lifeteen Mass–just sends a message of disunity. We are all Catholics and should worship as a unified community, because there is value in intergenerational and cross-cultural mixing. If there are too many “flavours” of Catholicism at your parish, that might be a valid issue to address. Good luck!
 
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27lw:
Your post is very helpful. However, I point out that snorting wildebeests don’t know any better.
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Wildebeest etiquette is widely underestimated. 😉
 
victrolatim said:
When I was a kid I came from a parish that was/is “stuck in the 70s” with all-contemporary all the time mentality, swaying and holding hands in the pews, tie dye, priest playing guitar at the altar etc. I found this so distasteful at the time that I left that church (age 18) and didn’t attend another until I found the extraordinary form at age 20. With that I found a group of people who, although nice, gave me plenty of polarizing literature to read (Matt, Ferrara, Vennari, etc) including some very blatant anti-Semitic stuff. For a few years I strictly attended the EF, as I had had the OF leave that bad taste in my mouth. I became disenchanted with all the fringe SSPX type stuff as I noticed that everything was always negative or slanted negative, and it was never that we were “one holy Catholic church” it was always sort of a “them against us” mentality. This is when I started listening to EWTN and going to daily (OF) Mass (I figured that if I go to an early Mass I tend to avoid any type of music or whatnot that I would find distracting).

My problem that I struggle with is that I get distracted if there is something in the liturgy that isn’t exactly right. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a blatant abuse, it could be an ad-libbed phrasing, bad sermon, clapping in church, etc. I HATE it. I don’t want to be a nit-picker but it seems to be my cross now. I have found it useful some times to just close my eyes (seeing everyone raising arms during the Lord’s Prayer drives me nuts). I know that there is nothing wrong with the validity of 99% of the Masses I am at but I just find myself so easily distracted that my mind wanders. I’m looking for strategies to combat this. I try to mentally picture Our Lord’s Passion or repeat in my mind the names of the people whose intentions I am remembering. That seems to help, but sometimes I am just completely thrown off guard (One time I ended up at a Mass with electric guitars and drums, the Mass was perfectly fine but the music just kept bringing me back to those problems I had a decade ago).
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Join the club. I too, and I think a good number of people as well, can become very distracted and vexed, and thus less prayerful, when we experience shoddy liturgy or music or homiletics that somehow seems like it doesn’t belong. If you’re very attached to the OF, probably the best solution to all of this would be the earliest, lowest Sunday morning Mass, if your parish still offers one, which always feels more like a daily Mass and often lacks music and a homily altogether.

The only other solution is to hear daily Mass wherever you can, and travel on Sundays to hear the EF. It sounds like you were involved with something of a fringy or irregular group before, so I wouldn’t go back there. Instead, I’d check the Ecclesia Dei directory to find the EF Mass nearest you that is in full communion with Rome. It’s a small sacrifice to make in order to be able to worship without distractions.
 
I have similar issues with some of the things you mention. One thing that I have considered (but haven’t done yet), is joining one of the committees to hopefully start to “nudge” things in the right direction. If no one on the committee sees a problem with what is currently being done, than it’s not likely that things will spontaneously change. You could find like minded people to also get involved in similar ways. That’s just my suggestion.
 
alphawoman said:
Good for you for noticing your issue!

Have you ever read “The Screwtape Letters” by C.S. Lewis? He talks about use of sensory affect by a demonic tempter in training to distract people from the Mass and elicit a sense of pride or distaste toward the Mass, clergy, or churchgoers. It’s a light hearted, eye opening read. I saw so many of my own prideful behaviours in the book that it have me tons of ammunition to get over myself. Seriously. I used to be such a judgmental curmudgeon about everything-- clapping, babies crying, phones ringing, meandering homilies, hippie music, people singing off key or responding off pace, elderly people passing gas, etc. None of that matters an iota. I realized that it was MY problem and that I was letting myself miss an opportunity to celebrate and thank God, and that was a real failing on my part.

What worked for me was reading more broadly about the Eucharist, Eucharistic adoration, and the beauty of the Paschal sacrifice. It enriched my appreciation of the perfect gift that we receive so unworthy in Mass! We are literally experiencing heaven on Earth by being in God’s presence. Isn’t that amazing?!?! It’s beyond comprehension, isn’t it? Let that idea wash over you for a few minutes.

I try to go to adoration a few minutes before Mass to immerse myself in God–even just kneeling and praying in the pew works, too. It puts me in a mindset of gratitude. This was one of my favourite books, which I highly recommend:

tanbooks.com/index.php/mass-eucharist/blessed-eucharist-our-greatest-treasure-1647.html

With God in your heart and mind, you could be surrounded by a herd of snorting wildebeests and be joyful still for the opportunity to receive God. You can overcome those distractions and be a full participant in the Mass. Heck, why not offer your next Mass for the intention of your full participation in Mass for the benefit of sinners everywhere? I bet God will help you! 🙂
Click to expand...
But doesn’t God deserve better? Bad liturgy is not bad because it makes us feel bad, but because it is so far from the best that we can offer God. After all that wonderful sentiment you expressed about the Eucharist I am amazed that the conclusion you reached does not seem to follow. We truly do have a sublime, insurpassable gift in the Eucharist and this is all the more reason to demand a reverent celebration of the Mass. God deserves our best and therefore we should always cringe when we see the Holy Mass abused. This is not necessarily born out of pride, but of a righteous longing for God to be worshipped as He deserves to be. And the second we throw up the white flag and excuse ourselves from the fight - no matter how good our intentions - the hippies, the bongos, and the overall dismal status quo wins.
 
victrolatim said:
When I was a kid I came from a parish that was/is “stuck in the 70s” with all-contemporary all the time mentality, swaying and holding hands in the pews, tie dye, priest playing guitar at the altar etc. I found this so distasteful at the time that I left that church (age 18) and didn’t attend another until I found the extraordinary form at age 20. With that I found a group of people who, although nice, gave me plenty of polarizing literature to read (Matt, Ferrara, Vennari, etc) including some very blatant anti-Semitic stuff. For a few years I strictly attended the EF, as I had had the OF leave that bad taste in my mouth. I became disenchanted with all the fringe SSPX type stuff as I noticed that everything was always negative or slanted negative, and it was never that we were “one holy Catholic church” it was always sort of a “them against us” mentality. This is when I started listening to EWTN and going to daily (OF) Mass (I figured that if I go to an early Mass I tend to avoid any type of music or whatnot that I would find distracting).

My problem that I struggle with is that I get distracted if there is something in the liturgy that isn’t exactly right. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a blatant abuse, it could be an ad-libbed phrasing, bad sermon, clapping in church, etc. I HATE it. I don’t want to be a nit-picker but it seems to be my cross now. I have found it useful some times to just close my eyes (seeing everyone raising arms during the Lord’s Prayer drives me nuts). I know that there is nothing wrong with the validity of 99% of the Masses I am at but I just find myself so easily distracted that my mind wanders. I’m looking for strategies to combat this. I try to mentally picture Our Lord’s Passion or repeat in my mind the names of the people whose intentions I am remembering. That seems to help, but sometimes I am just completely thrown off guard (One time I ended up at a Mass with electric guitars and drums, the Mass was perfectly fine but the music just kept bringing me back to those problems I had a decade ago).
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Why does it drive you crazy to the point of distraction that others around you raise their hands during the Our Father? It’s not prohibited by the GIRM to my reading. What is it about their expression of their faith and love for God that bothers you? Do you believe it it is not authentic? Is it disrespectful? Do you think God is frowning on them? Why is your manner of expression of faith and love for God superior to theirs? That’s what I ask myself.

Here is what I have found for myself. I used to let things bother me and distract me at Mass–but I realized when I did this–I was making the Mass about me and how I wanted it to be and when I did that I was making the Mass about me and not about Jesus. I was the one failing to focus on Christ and blaming others. I came to realize that I had a choice: I could 1.) be irritated and focus on everything that bothers me and let Mass be ruined or 2.) I could ignore it, pray the prayers, read the readings, receive Christ in the Eucharist and try to see Christ in everyone at Mass–if I do this I am focused on Christ and Mass is enjoyable and meaningful no matter what goes on around me. To be quite truthful my eyes are closed through all the prayers as I focus on the words of the prayer, I follow the readings, sing the songs, and take notes during the homily–that leaves very little time for looking around worrying. I guess I have come to see that I am responsible for my focus at Mass and if I let others bother me–that’s on me.

I try to see Jesus in everyone at Mass. It is my belief that they are there responding to Christs call, that they are responding to Gods grace–where ever they are in their faith journey–infant, saint and all places in between. They felt drawn to come to Mass–when so many do not–so how can I not look at them with the love of Christ and wish for them to be drawn closer to Christ and not be drawn closer to Christ myself at the same time?
“Loving others is a spiritual force drawing us to union with God; indeed one who does not love others ‘walks in darkness’(1 Jn 2:11)…Whenever we encounter another person in love, we learn something new about God. Whenever our eyes are open to acknowledge the other, we grow in light of faith and knowledge of God.” Pope Francis.

I hope you find a way to not be distracted at Mass. I really do think it is in our control–it is a decision we have to make about what we will let bother us.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
Holding hands and the raising of the hands during the Our Father drives me crazy, too. I have never attended a church that has done these things on a regular basis like the Roman Catholic Church I attend now.

Ad-libbing also distracts me, too. I feel like I am lost in my Missal if the priest ad-libs. Very distracting.

I thought I was one of the only ones. Feels good to know that I am not alone. 🙂
 
R_H_Benson said:
But doesn’t God deserve better? Bad liturgy is not bad because it makes us feel bad, but because it is so far from the best that we can offer God. After all that wonderful sentiment you expressed about the Eucharist I am amazed that the conclusion you reached does not seem to follow. We truly do have a sublime, insurpassable gift in the Eucharist and this is all the more reason to demand a reverent celebration of the Mass. God deserves our best and therefore we should always cringe when we see the Holy Mass abused. This is not necessarily born out of pride, but of a righteous longing for God to be worshipped as He deserves to be. And the second we throw up the white flag and excuse ourselves from the fight - no matter how good our intentions - the hippies, the bongos, and the overall dismal status quo wins.
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Maybe we have different views of what constitutes a good sacrifice.

Self-improvement and striving to achieve the best possible communal sacrifice in Mass need not be mutually exclusive. The reality is that the tone and cadence of the delivery of Mass can impact parishioners’ ability to learn and become involved in the faith. It is important to cultivate a reverent and prayerful Mass for God. But, I would ask the following questions:

Why did God create Mass? Is it to receive the most perfect possible acclaim, or to bend to the level of humans and suffuse us with his grace so that we can more fully imitate Him?

What are the things that God values most? That which comes from the heart: penance, mortification, self-sacrifice.

Which parishioner’s attendance at Mass requires more interior sacrifice: a person attending a resplendent Mass who is able to attend prayerfully with ease, or a person who has to struggle to participate in spite of a subjectively aesthetically suboptimal celebration of the Mass? The reality is that no single parishioner is every going to attend a Mass that is ideally suited to his aesthetic preferences, so there will always be some degree of personal sacrifice involved in participating fully.

Does God value less the prayers of little children who sing out of tune, or of senile elderly parishioners who can’t seem to remember the words to the Creed? Certainly not. He could care less whether the entrance antiphon is played on an expensive pipe organ or a tin can with an elastic band and a kazoo, so long as what is offered to Him is honestly the best and sincerest offering the churchgoer can give.

It is good to try to offer God the “optimal” Mass, I agree, but I fear you are making a LOT of assumptions about different formats of Mass without understanding why some of those choices are made. Perhaps some parishes choose pared down music because they have decided to donate their music fund to feeding the poor, or because local polling has shown that the majority of parishioners or prospective parishioners prefer that style of devotion. Maybe the buildings are in disrepair because community outreach programs that foster the faith are deemed a higher priority. Some priests are more erudite and articulate speakers than others. Stylistic variations are not important provided that the sacrifice of parishioners’ hearts is sincere. If there is disrespectful or sacrilegious behaviour going on, that definitely needs to be corrected. But, to categorize Mass as being “abused” because it isn’t celebrated to your taste seems like misplaced hyperbole.

Jesus wasn’t born in an opulent palace, he was born in what was, effectively, a shanty. He conceals himself in a piece of nondescript bread in communion. He suffered undeserved torments and died on a cross, humiliated and broken. His life shows us the kind of sacrifices he values. Yes, strive for a good and holy Mass, and set the best possible example for those around you, but beware of subtly twisting the meaning of the Mass’ sacrifice by placing undue value on form as it appeals to you.
 
MarkInOregon said:
Why does it drive you crazy to the point of distraction that others around you raise their hands during the Our Father? It’s not prohibited by the GIRM to my reading. What is it about their expression of their faith and love for God that bothers you? Do you believe it it is not authentic? Is it disrespectful? Do you think God is frowning on them? Why is your manner of expression of faith and love for God superior to theirs? That’s what I ask myself.

Here is what I have found for myself. I used to let things bother me and distract me at Mass–but I realized when I did this–I was making the Mass about me and how I wanted it to be and when I did that I was making the Mass about me and not about Jesus. I was the one failing to focus on Christ and blaming others. I came to realize that I had a choice: I could 1.) be irritated and focus on everything that bothers me and let Mass be ruined or 2.) I could ignore it, pray the prayers, read the readings, receive Christ in the Eucharist and try to see Christ in everyone at Mass–if I do this I am focused on Christ and Mass is enjoyable and meaningful no matter what goes on around me. To be quite truthful my eyes are closed through all the prayers as I focus on the words of the prayer, I follow the readings, sing the songs, and take notes during the homily–that leaves very little time for looking around worrying. I guess I have come to see that I am responsible for my focus at Mass and if I let others bother me–that’s on me.

I try to see Jesus in everyone at Mass. It is my belief that they are there responding to Christs call, that they are responding to Gods grace–where ever they are in their faith journey–infant, saint and all places in between. They felt drawn to come to Mass–when so many do not–so how can I not look at them with the love of Christ and wish for them to be drawn closer to Christ and not be drawn closer to Christ myself at the same time?
“Loving others is a spiritual force drawing us to union with God; indeed one who does not love others ‘walks in darkness’(1 Jn 2:11)…Whenever we encounter another person in love, we learn something new about God. Whenever our eyes are open to acknowledge the other, we grow in light of faith and knowledge of God.” Pope Francis.

I hope you find a way to not be distracted at Mass. I really do think it is in our control–it is a decision we have to make about what we will let bother us.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
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This is a lovely post, Mark. Isn’t it a great feeling to look around the church and see so many people who made an active, counter-cultural choice to live out their faith? For many people, simply attending Mass is a huge accomplishment!
 
victrolatim said:
When I was a kid I came from a parish that was/is “stuck in the 70s” with all-contemporary all the time mentality, swaying and holding hands in the pews, tie dye, priest playing guitar at the altar etc. I found this so distasteful at the time that I left that church (age 18) and didn’t attend another until I found the extraordinary form at age 20. With that I found a group of people who, although nice, gave me plenty of polarizing literature to read (Matt, Ferrara, Vennari, etc) including some very blatant anti-Semitic stuff. For a few years I strictly attended the EF, as I had had the OF leave that bad taste in my mouth. I became disenchanted with all the fringe SSPX type stuff as I noticed that everything was always negative or slanted negative, and it was never that we were “one holy Catholic church” it was always sort of a “them against us” mentality. This is when I started listening to EWTN and going to daily (OF) Mass (I figured that if I go to an early Mass I tend to avoid any type of music or whatnot that I would find distracting).

My problem that I struggle with is that I get distracted if there is something in the liturgy that isn’t exactly right. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a blatant abuse, it could be an ad-libbed phrasing, bad sermon, clapping in church, etc. I HATE it. I don’t want to be a nit-picker but it seems to be my cross now. I have found it useful some times to just close my eyes (seeing everyone raising arms during the Lord’s Prayer drives me nuts). I know that there is nothing wrong with the validity of 99% of the Masses I am at but I just find myself so easily distracted that my mind wanders. I’m looking for strategies to combat this. I try to mentally picture Our Lord’s Passion or repeat in my mind the names of the people whose intentions I am remembering. That seems to help, but sometimes I am just completely thrown off guard (One time I ended up at a Mass with electric guitars and drums, the Mass was perfectly fine but the music just kept bringing me back to those problems I had a decade ago).
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I struggle too with what you say. I follow what I believe is right and what is Catholic. I will not raise my hands, hold hand, take Communion in the hand standing, sing and end a prayer where it should be ended.

If we hang in there our Mass will come back…🙂
 
R_H_Benson said:
But doesn’t God deserve better? Bad liturgy is not bad because it makes us feel bad, but because it is so far from the best that we can offer God. After all that wonderful sentiment you expressed about the Eucharist I am amazed that the conclusion you reached does not seem to follow. We truly do have a sublime, insurpassable gift in the Eucharist and this is all the more reason to demand a reverent celebration of the Mass. God deserves our best and therefore we should always cringe when we see the Holy Mass abused. This is not necessarily born out of pride, but of a righteous longing for God to be worshipped as He deserves to be. And the second we throw up the white flag and excuse ourselves from the fight - no matter how good our intentions - the hippies, the bongos, and the overall dismal status quo wins.
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However, if our hearts are not in the right place–if they are filled with contempt for any of our fellow Mass attendees, including hippies–then our worship is defiled no matter how sublime it appears–and we are not truly offering our best to God. I, for one, am not willing to claim that I know how God deserves to be worshiped–other than to say that it should be with my whole heart, my whole mind, and my whole soul. I am not willing to claim: that God prefers a 17th century hymn to a more contemporary song, that God prefers organ music to a piano and guitar, that God prefers suits to khaki’s or ties to open collared shirts, or that God cringes when someone dares to hold hands during the Our Father. What we claim to be “our best” has changed over time–and reflects class constructs. It may be that when we dress up in a suit and tie for Mass that we are trying to offer our best to God–but it also projects a certain social status and may well make some of our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ or strangers interested in Christ–feel unwelcome or out of place–and it may also be a source of pride for us (cf Pope Francis and his black shoes). It seems to me that Christ was always more concerned with what was in our hearts than on external appearances. It was the pharisee’s who were sticklers for letter of the law and appearance rather than the spirit, for what went into the mouth rather than what came out of the mouth.

None of this should be taken to mean that I am for some kind of anything goes Mass or that I think we should come to Mass in cut-offs and flip flops. I want a Mass that raises our hearts and minds to God and not a Mass that feels like a 18th century opera–where those of us in the pews are merely observers–with many engaging in their own private devotions (as they did in the good old days)–to my way of thinking that’s not what the Mass was ever intended to be–nor was it what the Mass of the early Church was. I want a Mass where all are welcomed and helped on their journey to grow closer to Christ. Were we celebrate Christs death and resurrection–where we hear the good news of the Gospel proclaimed. Were we are joyous and not dour --Christ died and rose for us and has given us the Eucharist to nourish us on our journey. I want to celebrate the Mass within the norms allowed by the GIRM–without having every gesture my fellow parishioners make or song they choose to sing put under the microscope by those who apparently spend more time at Mass watching others, and critiquing than they do praying. I want a Mass where people experience the love of Christ and not the condemnation of the pharisees. I want a Mass where we all worship lovingly together and are strengthened by the Eucharist and more fully united to Christ. I want a Mass where we worship with our brothers and sisters in Christ and in whom we can count on when things go bad and who can count us in their time of need. It would seem that we could have all that and reverence to. But we have nothing if our hearts are far from God–and when we harbor ill will toward those we celebrate with at Mass–because they don’t appear reverent enough or make a gesture we don’t like–then I am not sure our hearts are close to God. At least that’s what I found for myself.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
alphawoman said:
Maybe we have different views of what constitutes a good sacrifice.

Self-improvement and striving to achieve the best possible communal sacrifice in Mass need not be mutually exclusive. The reality is that the tone and cadence of the delivery of Mass can impact parishioners’ ability to learn and become involved in the faith. It is important to cultivate a reverent and prayerful Mass for God. But, I would ask the following questions:

Why did God create Mass? Is it to receive the most perfect possible acclaim, or to bend to the level of humans and suffuse us with his grace so that we can more fully imitate Him?

What are the things that God values most? That which comes from the heart: penance, mortification, self-sacrifice.

Which parishioner’s attendance at Mass requires more interior sacrifice: a person attending a resplendent Mass who is able to attend prayerfully with ease, or a person who has to struggle to participate in spite of a subjectively aesthetically suboptimal celebration of the Mass? The reality is that no single parishioner is every going to attend a Mass that is ideally suited to his aesthetic preferences, so there will always be some degree of personal sacrifice involved in participating fully.

Does God value less the prayers of little children who sing out of tune, or of senile elderly parishioners who can’t seem to remember the words to the Creed? Certainly not. He could care less whether the entrance antiphon is played on an expensive pipe organ or a tin can with an elastic band and a kazoo, so long as what is offered to Him is honestly the best and sincerest offering the churchgoer can give.

It is good to try to offer God the “optimal” Mass, I agree, but I fear you are making a LOT of assumptions about different formats of Mass without understanding why some of those choices are made. Perhaps some parishes choose pared down music because they have decided to donate their music fund to feeding the poor, or because local polling has shown that the majority of parishioners or prospective parishioners prefer that style of devotion. Maybe the buildings are in disrepair because community outreach programs that foster the faith are deemed a higher priority. Some priests are more erudite and articulate speakers than others. Stylistic variations are not important provided that the sacrifice of parishioners’ hearts is sincere. If there is disrespectful or sacrilegious behaviour going on, that definitely needs to be corrected. But, to categorize Mass as being “abused” because it isn’t celebrated to your taste seems like misplaced hyperbole.

Jesus wasn’t born in an opulent palace, he was born in what was, effectively, a shanty. He conceals himself in a piece of nondescript bread in communion. He suffered undeserved torments and died on a cross, humiliated and broken. His life shows us the kind of sacrifices he values. Yes, strive for a good and holy Mass, and set the best possible example for those around you, but beware of subtly twisting the meaning of the Mass’ sacrifice by placing undue value on form as it appeals to you.
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You have said beautifully what I have tried to say poorly. I wish I could delete my post.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
I find myself to be visually distracted easily and I don’t want to be concerned with what other people are doing during Mass, I should be focused on my own spirituality. Hence why I decide to close my eyes. It takes away the temptation to be thinking “Why do they do that” or “That isn’t right”. or “Ugh! Are they REALLY wearing that to Mass?”
 
MarkInOregon said:
However, if our hearts are not in the right place–if they are filled with contempt for any of our fellow Mass attendees, including hippies–then our worship is defiled no matter how sublime it appears–and we are not truly offering our best to God. I, for one, am not willing to claim that I know how God deserves to be worshiped–other than to say that it should be with my whole heart, my whole mind, and my whole soul. I am not willing to claim: that God prefers a 17th century hymn to a more contemporary song, that God prefers organ music to a piano and guitar, that God prefers suits to khaki’s or ties to open collared shirts, or that God cringes when someone dares to hold hands during the Our Father. What we claim to be “our best” has changed over time–and reflects class constructs. It may be that when we dress up in a suit and tie for Mass that we are trying to offer our best to God–but it also projects a certain social status and may well make some of our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ or strangers interested in Christ–feel unwelcome or out of place–and it may also be a source of pride for us (cf Pope Francis and his black shoes). It seems to me that Christ was always more concerned with what was in our hearts than on external appearances. It was the pharisee’s who were sticklers for letter of the law and appearance rather than the spirit, for what went into the mouth rather than what came out of the mouth.

None of this should be taken to mean that I am for some kind of anything goes Mass or that I think we should come to Mass in cut-offs and flip flops. I want a Mass that raises our hearts and minds to God and not a Mass that feels like a 18th century opera–where those of us in the pews are merely observers–with many engaging in their own private devotions (as they did in the good old days)–to my way of thinking that’s not what the Mass was ever intended to be–nor was it what the Mass of the early Church was. I want a Mass where all are welcomed and helped on their journey to grow closer to Christ. Were we celebrate Christs death and resurrection–where we hear the good news of the Gospel proclaimed. Were we are joyous and not dour --Christ died and rose for us and has given us the Eucharist to nourish us on our journey. I want to celebrate the Mass within the norms allowed by the GIRM–without having every gesture my fellow parishioners make or song they choose to sing put under the microscope by those who apparently spend more time at Mass watching others, and critiquing than they do praying. I want a Mass where people experience the love of Christ and not the condemnation of the pharisees. I want a Mass where we all worship lovingly together and are strengthened by the Eucharist and more fully united to Christ. I want a Mass where we worship with our brothers and sisters in Christ and in whom we can count on when things go bad and who can count us in their time of need. It would seem that we could have all that and reverence to. But we have nothing if our hearts are far from God–and when we harbor ill will toward those we celebrate with at Mass–because they don’t appear reverent enough or make a gesture we don’t like–then I am not sure our hearts are close to God. At least that’s what I found for myself.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
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This is why, Mark, I advocate very strongly for those who are easily distracted by much of a contemporary Mass, those who might be tempted to sin by what they see of other parishioners’ behaviour, those who seek a more inner and contemplative experience, to hear the EF generally–and for bishops and priests to learn it and support it. Those who would be scandalized by what they might perceive as an elitism or such at the EF then should be hearing the OF. This is perhaps not optimal, but I think unless we separate from each other somewhat, at least for the purposes of public worship, none of us will ever be happy and will be continually vexed by the others. The magisterium is very clear: both are valid expressions of the same Roman Rite and valid devotional forms, albeit emphasizing different aspects of the same mystery; both are different ways of actively participating in the mystery of Christ’s paschal sacrifice.

I don’t think we’ll have any peace until we start doing this, particularly because the more we fight about this, the more entrenched and inflexible both will become in their positions, and thus the more any sense of unity, at least so far as worship goes, will be strained.
 
I want to celebrate the Mass within the norms allowed by the GIRM–without having every gesture my fellow parishioners make or song they choose to sing put under the microscope by those who apparently spend more time at Mass watching others, and critiquing than they do praying.
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It seems that you think that this behavior is always the conscious choice of the other party. Some people are just by nature, easily distracted or over-analytical. It is not always easy to turn it off if that is how our minds naturally work. It comes easier to some than others. For example, I have perfect pitch. It is both a blessing and a curse. I don’t WANT to be distracted by amateur musicians but it is very hard to shut off my brain.
 
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