Before you go getting all warm and fuzzy on me I said “the church must rightly interpret scripture” not “they were the rightful interpreter of scriptures.” SorryWell, we agree that the church is the rightful interpreter of scripture, so that’s something.
Regarding Augustine, What are those certain errors that the church left unchecked???
Before you go getting all warm and fuzzy on me I said “the church must rightly interpret scripture” not “they were the rightful interpreter of scriptures.” Sorry
Didn’t mean to get all warm and fuzzy on you.
Say…what? Augustine’s view on Calvinism? Please show me where Augustine discusses Calvin and his teachings? No offense,but your history is way off the map.I’m glad we agree too but I don’t agree it has been properly interpreted.
I highlighted Augustine to make a point that he was a doctor of the church yet the church doesn’t agree with him on certain things. If they thought he was in error why didn’t they correct him? How come you don’t agree with him on Calvinism?
Don’t believe it just because someone says so. Verify by scripture!
So evidently Jesus never taught the Bible alone is the final authority.Jericho has stated that it is the church’s duty to correctly interpret scripture.
We both agree on the NT scriptures it is the OT where we disagree. The difference of seven books between the Catholic and Protestant canons stems from the fact that the early Christians used a Greek translation of the Jewish scriptures which differed from the one which came to be accepted by the Jews; the Protestant churches later dropped those books which were not accepted by the Jews.
And in case you did not know,the Christian church already existed by the time the Jews fixed their canon. So why would you as a Christian adhere to a Jewish decision not binded to Christians?
The word Trinity doesn’t appear in scripture either but yet the Trinity is there. What did Jesus quote from time after time to prove His authority or to reinforce what He was teaching. The B-I-B-L-E. Please do a word search for “it is written” and see for yourself.
It looks like he has changed his mind though…:compcoff:
Yes,but it was HIS CHURCH which gave us the complexity of doctrine,the three distinct persons,not the Bible. Ah no Jesus authority came…from GOD the Father,not a collection of scriptures not canonized yet. Precisely read the B-I-B-L-E and I do not recall Jesus saying my authority comes from the B-I-B-L-E.
:clapping::tiphat: This distinction is absolutely crucial. Someone several posts back also quoted the verse about where two or more believers are gathered together, there He is in their midst. The church is organic, not sclerotically structural. Matter of fact, the more institutional/bureaucractic, the more reified, a religious group becomes, the less room there is for the Spirit to work (think of Jesus’ comment about the Holy Spirit being like the wind: have you ever seen anyone who can box, codify, tame, or institutionalize the wind? ). Were the Apostles part of some institution? Of course not: they (and their followers) were a spontaneous group of “lively stones,” rolling across the Near East with the message of the Gospel. ** The Way, The Truth and The Life**, that Person Himself did (and does) not reside in fossilized structures, physical or otherwise. All of His followers individually and corporately are His dwelling place.Ever wonder WHY?
Far from it! He just dances around it.
Jesus did not quote from the bible that you and I possess; the NT didn’t even exist.
Didn’t mean to get all warm and fuzzy on you.
joe370;8463368:
As was Luther…and? Once you step outside those boundaries you ae no longer an Augustinian monk. Present those doctrines put forth by Augustine?That’s OK.
Calvinist are Augustinian. Augustine laid the groundwork for what later be called Calvinism. The church does not embrace those doctrines put forth by Augustine.
So God didn’t canonize the OT? Did the cc write OT too!
Were those doctrines already present in scripture or did the cc invent them on their own?
That very question is what started my wife and I to reconsider our Anabaptist teachings and to start exploring the Catholic faith. As Anabaptist we are not evangelical, protestant nor “sola scriptura proponents”, but rather were taught that our church fathers withdrew from the Catholic Church over the coruption that existed within the church as well as doctrinal issues such as infant baptism, and were persucuted by both the Catholics and the Protestants. Over time, the Anabaptist churches have become more protestant - like, but I think it would suprise them just how “catholic” they really are! Studing the early Church Father have raised alot of questions in our minds as to where we need to be, to be fully submitted to Jesus.I respectfully ask evangelical, protestant and sola scriptura proponents:
By whose authority does any one person, (such as myself) - have the right to start a church and call his/her established church the church founded by Jesus Christ on Pentecost?
Thanks…
That’s a false question, Nicaea: Jesus is the AUTHOR of the Bible, and yet when He came on earth in our human frame, over and over He appealed to it as His authority. (Since He is the King, He could have just said, “I say…” or “I have spoken! Amen!”) Does that not speak volumes
D) for the primacy of the Bible?The ECF’s were critical to my conversion. For me it was as simple as this: I wanted to belong to the church to which the apostles belonged regardless of the wolves in sheep’s clothing, which of course Jesus predicted would come to pass:
It was still the bible!Jesus did not quote from the bible that you and I possess; the NT didn’t even exist.
He referenced quotes from the Hebrew Scripture aka Tanakh which is composed of:
Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy
The Prophets
The Writings
Right???