I sat in on my husband's Marriage prep class yesterday

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And the feedback he got about NFP was absolutely awful. He has the couples fill out evaluations at the end of the session, and we were looking through them. Several of them as much said “I will contracept, and you can’t stop me.” Then there was, “NFP is nowhere near as effective as a condom,” and the old favorite, “The Church doesn’t belong in my bedroom.” Of course, names weren’t signed. :rolleyes:

There is a couple who does the NFP presentation who are not certified instructors, so their information is not as useful as it could be. I’ve been telling my husband for a couple of years now, that his parish needs to spring for someone who knows what they’re talking about. He’s approached his pastor about it, and the pastor wants only the couple that do this. It’s a tragedy, because the couples are not learning the value of NFP vs. being closed to life.

Any ideas out there how it should be presented?
 
Detroit_Sue said:
And the feedback he got about NFP was absolutely awful. He has the couples fill out evaluations at the end of the session, and we were looking through them. Several of them as much said “I will contracept, and you can’t stop me.” Then there was, “NFP is nowhere near as effective as a condom,” and the old favorite, “The Church doesn’t belong in my bedroom.” Of course, names weren’t signed. :rolleyes:

There is a couple who does the NFP presentation who are not certified instructors, so their information is not as useful as it could be. I’ve been telling my husband for a couple of years now, that his parish needs to spring for someone who knows what they’re talking about. He’s approached his pastor about it, and the pastor wants only the couple that do this. It’s a tragedy, because the couples are not learning the value of NFP vs. being closed to life.

Any ideas out there how it should be presented?
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Humanae Vitae and Evangelium Vitae should be the two pillars of truth behing the presentation of NFP. Get someone who knows both the science and the theology.

Since when does the Magisterial teachings of the Church require feedback from a bunch of over-sexed Americans?
 
Detroit_Sue said:
Any ideas out there how it should be presented?
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Not the way it was presented to us, that’s for sure. Our archdiocesan NFP session was run by a couple who spent at least half the time talking about the evils of STD’s and teens they knew who had been sexually active and had their lives ruined by STD’s. Yes, it happens, yes it needs to be addressed, but not to a roomful of couples who are planning on marrying and (at least I assume) remaining monogamous, and who are no longer teenagers. There wasn’t much positive info given on NFP, why the church teaches what it does, etc. We got a bunch of chart samples that really didn’t make any sense, especially considering that by the time the instructors finally got around to “what NFP is”, the session was nearly over.
 
I can give you my perspective as a former non-Catholic who saw nothing wrong with contraception. I could see myself having written most of those comments.
I agree that you need a presentation that focuses on the science of NFP as well as the theology.
The same couple can continue presenting, but they need to change their tactics if they are going to get through to people who are like I was.
With comments like “the Church doesn’t belong in our bedroom”, the theology alone isn’t going to have an effect on them. They must first have their hearts opened by the Holy spirit. But, when the simplicity of the science is clearly presented, they have to listen (they may still not agree, but it’s the best you can do).
And it doesn’t hurt to have some anecdotal evidence too. See if there are couples in the Church who use NFP who would be willing to share their stories (both of avoidance and achieving pregnancy). Before I educated myself, the only “examples” of NFP I saw were couples that had more than the typical 2.5 kids. It scared me!
Then I came to these forums and was ultimately convinced of the effectiveness of NFP by one of our members who has used it for ten years to avoid. She has a serious medical condition in which another pregnancy would prove fatal. That really got through to me. I could no longer convince myself that it was ineffective and only used by people who didn’t care if it “failed”.
I wish our pre-cana classes had explained the beauty of NFP to me. I can’t say that I would have listened at the time, but I think it’s sad that it’s a topic that is rarely even broached anymore.
Malia
 
Feanaro_s_Wife said:
1]And it doesn’t hurt to have some anecdotal evidence too. See if there are couples in the Church who use NFP who would be willing to share their stories (both of avoidance and achieving pregnancy). Before I educated myself, the only “examples” of NFP I saw were couples that had more than the typical 2.5 kids. It scared me!
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Good point. One of the couples who teaches in our parish has seven children. While they have done an exceptionally good job of raising those children, this couple’s presentation of NFP may be intimidating to young couples just starting out, who aren’t yet sure where the money will come from for even one child and who are not receiving any family or other encouragement to be open to children beyond the culturally accepted one or two. It’s a bit easier to believe NFP works if a couple who has used it to avoid pregnancy (for a grave reason, of course) also presents their story.
 
Check out the Couple to Couple League:
ccli.org/

It’s the best presentation on NFP that I have ever heard!! 🙂

God bless,

Trish
 
After noticing that you are in the Detroit area, I checked the Couple to Couple League’s site, and they have many teachers in the Detroit area.

Trish
 
Feanaro_s_Wife said:
I can give you my perspective as a former non-Catholic who saw nothing wrong with contraception. I could see myself having written most of those comments.
I agree that you need a presentation that focuses on the science of NFP as well as the theology.
The same couple can continue presenting, but they need to change their tactics if they are going to get through to people who are like I was.
With comments like “the Church doesn’t belong in our bedroom”, the theology alone isn’t going to have an effect on them. They must first have their hearts opened by the Holy spirit. But, when the simplicity of the science is clearly presented, they have to listen (they may still not agree, but it’s the best you can do).
And it doesn’t hurt to have some anecdotal evidence too. See if there are couples in the Church who use NFP who would be willing to share their stories (both of avoidance and achieving pregnancy). Before I educated myself, the only “examples” of NFP I saw were couples that had more than the typical 2.5 kids. It scared me!
Then I came to these forums and was ultimately convinced of the effectiveness of NFP by one of our members who has used it for ten years to avoid. She has a serious medical condition in which another pregnancy would prove fatal. That really got through to me. I could no longer convince myself that it was ineffective and only used by people who didn’t care if it “failed”.
I wish our pre-cana classes had explained the beauty of NFP to me. I can’t say that I would have listened at the time, but I think it’s sad that it’s a topic that is rarely even broached anymore.
Malia
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I agree…the only NFP education I recieved was the reasons why the presenters thought we should use it…nothing about HOW or WHAT. 20-yr-olds who have known each other for 5 months might be swayed by why arguments. 32-yr-olds with college degrees need some how and what.
 
When I was in marriage prep, most of the couples just didn’t want to know. They were like,fingers in ears,"la,la la, I’m not listening"😦
 
I think the problem was that there was not enough clarity on the science & mechanics of NFP. Just the husband saying, he was so happy when they were able to have sex again after his wife’s fertile period. :rolleyes:

I have told my husband to contact the CCL for information/presenters. The problem is, getting the priest to okay it. I want him to take a class on it, because it’s more refined than it used to be, and truthfully, we never used it. God only gave us two kids, and we’d have loved a houseful.
 
I would copy those responses, and send them to your pastor with a letter advising a better approach to this subject. I would cc: the bishop (OK, in your diocese that might be problematic – but the scuttlebut is that JJ Myers will be sent out there in the near future).
 
Detroit_Sue said:
I think the problem was that there was not enough clarity on the science & mechanics of NFP. Just the husband saying, he was so happy when they were able to have sex again after his wife’s fertile period. :rolleyes:

I have told my husband to contact the CCL for information/presenters. The problem is, getting the priest to okay it. I want him to take a class on it, because it’s more refined than it used to be, and truthfully, we never used it. God only gave us two kids, and we’d have loved a houseful.
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I know that in Ann Arbor there is an NFP-only Catholic Dr.–his office used to be in the St. Joseph Mercy Hospital complex, I assume it still is.
Here’s the contact info:
Philip Fleming MD Specialty: OB/GYN
Phone: (734) 930-4020
NFP Model: STM/CCL
Ann Arbor, MI 48106
flem(name removed by moderator)v@trinity-health.org

Maybe a presention from him might have a bit of scientific weight? He would also know the Theology. (It might be good for your pastor to speak to him as well!) There may be other Catholic, NFP only dr’s in Detroit, but I don’t know of any off hand. Try omsoul.com and search for your area.

Hope that helps!
Jennifer
 
I don’t have any advice to offer, but I have marriage prep in a month and I am so dreading the awkwardness of the NFP part, when I would wager most of the other couples will be cohabitating, sexually active, and contracepting. Obviously my FH and I are NOT- and it’s rather uncomfotable when you realize people assume you are (Funny how that works).

I would guess the majority of times NFP is not addressed adequately to engaged couples, and/or they are already so closed to it the efforts would be in vain. 😦

I wish there were “NFP-only” doctors in Canada- I know everytime I go the first questions out of their mouths is what birth control am I using (and I look very young for my age :eek: )
 
Lil_M said:
I wish there were “NFP-only” doctors in Canada- I know everytime I go the first questions out of their mouths is what birth control am I using (and I look very young for my age :eek: )
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Wait until you are blessed with your first pregnancy and on your first visit to your OB/GYN you are asked if you want certain tests for the purpose of aborting a less desirable baby!!!:eek:

Malia
 
Lil_M said:
I don’t have any advice to offer, but I have marriage prep in a month and I am so dreading the awkwardness of the NFP part, when I would wager most of the other couples will be cohabitating, sexually active, and contracepting. Obviously my FH and I are NOT- and it’s rather uncomfotable when you realize people assume you are (Funny how that works).
Click to expand...
I can understand your trepidation, but you may be an inspiration after the initial “what??? you’re waiting for marriage???”.
I suggest you be open and comfortable about your great choices!!!
As a former fornicator and cohabitator (reformed now;) ) I think actually meeting a real life person or couple who actually practiced the virtue of chastity would have been a source of awe (in this society for sure). To me, virginity was for “nerds” who couldn’t get a date if their life depended on it or for the concecrated religious. It wasn’t “real” to me.
Malia
 
People who are in sales regard objections and negative comments as valuable feedback for future presentations.

If people who are making presentations can incorporate discussions of the negatives into the basic presentation, then they are said to be “pre-empting” the objections … making the objections less credible.
 
Detroit_Sue said:
And the feedback he got about NFP was absolutely awful. He has the couples fill out evaluations at the end of the session, and we were looking through them. Several of them as much said “I will contracept, and you can’t stop me.” Then there was, “NFP is nowhere near as effective as a condom,” and the old favorite, “The Church doesn’t belong in my bedroom.” Of course, names weren’t signed. :rolleyes:

There is a couple who does the NFP presentation who are not certified instructors, so their information is not as useful as it could be. I’ve been telling my husband for a couple of years now, that his parish needs to spring for someone who knows what they’re talking about. He’s approached his pastor about it, and the pastor wants only the couple that do this. It’s a tragedy, because the couples are not learning the value of NFP vs. being closed to life.

Any ideas out there how it should be presented?
Click to expand...
Do you have literature about NFP to hand out to couples? I think that would be most effective to send them home with literature to educate them on how it works,. why it’s wrong to use it (including Church teaching documents), class schedules, statistics, etc. I think most people would read it when they got home and it might have more of an impact on them than anything they’ll hear during a presentation where all they have on their mind is “how soon is this over?”.
 
Jennifer, thank you! I am going to email Dr. Fleming, and if he is personally unavailable, perhaps he can recommend some good literature.

Al & Mason, I also agree with you. I think the negative feedback is helpful in hitting certain points to help them understand. I was 25 once, and totally confused. We need to get them interested.

Thanks to all of you!

[SIGN]CA Posters ROCK!![/SIGN]
 
Sue,

Julie and I know a wonderful Catholic OB/GYN named Daniel Greene who teaches classes on NFP from a non-religious perspective at Crittenton Hospital. Take a look at this article and see if he can help you.

Dan
 
We didn’t even know of NFP when we were of the child siring and bearing age. I wish we had been. We were Protestants. Your parish may benefit from training in the Theology of the Body if you can get people to come to training. Contact Fr. Thomas J. Loya through our parish. www.byzantinecatholic.com He a leader in the National TOB movement.

CDL
 
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