I see my topic has been locked

[theistgal]

We’re called to rebuke the sinner, it’s an act of mercy.

Excuse me … yes, you are called to rebuke sinners, but in private would seem to be more merciful.

Rebuke them the way you would want to be rebuked in the same situation.

 

[Starfish]

When a drunk driver tried to end my husband’s life…

Greetings, one and all,

As I mentioned before, it’s not always easy for me to get to a computer, ergo, the delays in my answering.

crm, you quoted me when I stated that a drunk driver tried to end my husband’s life. Drunk driving is NEVER an accident. Anytime anyone drinks to excess, in this guy’s case, he blew a 2.8, and then to get into a vehicle is an attempt to kill. Murder.

Hardly an exaggeration, as my husband has lost two of his martial arts schools since he can no longer teach, he’s lost a lot because this drunk decided it was “his right” to go out, soak himself in a bottle and then drive sixty miles per hour, the wrong way on a one-way street.

Now, did I exaggerate what I was taught? I’m tired of having to defend myself in this. Yes, I was taught what I was taught. Why, oh, why should I lie about that? Just because YOU learned differently, doesn’t mean that I didn’t learn different from you. I’m sorry if this offends anyone here. I have found since then that so much of what I was taught was a load of baloney.

I have NOT come here to bash, but oh, so many of you are so willing to jump right in, tell me I’m lying about what I learned, give me the business, call me names, and all the rest.

I’m about to say, “thanks for the ride, folks” and just leave here for good. For those who have tried to understand where I am coming from, thanks. To those of you who just can’t believe me, well, that’s your business. For those who have tried to show me that I had been taught wrong, thanks to you.

I guess that’s about it.

 

[Catholic1954]

Peace be with you. Remember that God cannot refuse a contrite heart.

 

[adelore]

Greetings, one and all,

Now, did I exaggerate what I was taught? I’m tired of having to defend myself in this. Yes, I was taught what I was taught. Why, oh, why should I lie about that? Just because YOU learned differently, doesn’t mean that I didn’t learn different from you. I’m sorry if this offends anyone here. I have found since then that so much of what I was taught was a load of baloney.

I have NOT come here to bash, but oh, so many of you are so willing to jump right in, tell me I’m lying about what I learned, give me the business, call me names, and all the rest.

I’m about to say, “thanks for the ride, folks” and just leave here for good. For those who have tried to understand where I am coming from, thanks. To those of you who just can’t believe me, well, that’s your business. For those who have tried to show me that I had been taught wrong, thanks to you.

I guess that’s about it.

To Any and All Catholics, Including me, on this Forum.

After reading all the postings on this subject we each need to take a step back and look really Hard at ourselves.

Who here is without Sin? Who here has never Sinned?

And the excuse to “rebuke” the sinnner, oh please, get real! Let us not be taking that Scripture out of context! Of course we can “Point Out” someones sin, but does that include name calling? Does that include dumping on them so hard to Push Them right back out/away from the Catholic Church?

Or does it mean to show them their “error, sin” and then Guide them back, (with Chirstian Love) into the loving arms of Our Heavenly Father? Doesn’t it mean we should be Pointing out What they need to do, in order to be in good standing with the Catholic Church?

For those who are so “quick” to call names, stand in judgement, please remember…if this is how you intend to bring others into the fold of the Catholic Church, Jesus True Church, believe me you will Push everyone away. And then You will have to answer to Jesus, on why you did this!

Just read the Forums, it’s so easy to see many Catholics on here at one time or the other left the Catholic Church and then are seeking to “Come Home”. Guide them Home, don’t close the Gates on them, with judgement and name calling. That is Not what the Catholic Church Teaches!

Of course I realize that there are a few on here who this posting will fall on deaf ears. They are set in their ways. They are so sure of themselves that They are without Sin, that they are free to judge, condem, even call names. Not a very good Catholic Brother or Sister, in any book.

Let us not forget that Jesus came for the “Sinners” of this world!

 

[nmoerbeek]

To Any and All Catholics, Including me, on this Forum.

And the excuse to “rebuke” the sinnner, oh please, get real! Let us not be taking that Scripture out of context! Of course we can “Point Out” someones sin, but does that include name calling? Does that include dumping on them so hard to Push Them right back out/away from the Catholic Church?

Or does it mean to show them their “error, sin” and then Guide them back, (with Chirstian Love) into the loving arms of Our Heavenly Father? Doesn’t it mean we should be Pointing out What they need to do, in order to be in good standing with the Catholic Church?

For those who are so “quick” to call names, stand in judgement, please remember…if this is how you intend to bring others into the fold of the Catholic Church, Jesus True Church, believe me you will Push everyone away. And then You will have to answer to Jesus, on why you did this!

Just read the Forums, it’s so easy to see many Catholics on here at one time or the other left the Catholic Church and then are seeking to “Come Home”. Guide them Home, don’t close the Gates on them, with judgement and name calling. That is Not what the Catholic Church Teaches!

Of course I realize that there are a few on here who this posting will fall on deaf ears. They are set in their ways. They are so sure of themselves that They are without Sin, that they are free to judge, condem, even call names. Not a very good Catholic Brother or Sister, in any book.

Let us not forget that Jesus came for the “Sinners” of this world!

Matthew chapter 5

17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew chapter 18

15 “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 “But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17 “If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Brother,

I am afraid your approach will lead many souls to hell.

 

[lostandconfused]

Starfish,

One thing on this thread that really concerns me is all of these posts. I have seen comments such that have said things along the lines of “Youre lucky God hasnt given up on you, he gives up on other people but not you” —wait WHAT?! God gives up on people? Is that a Catholic belief?! Really?!

Also, I dont get how its so wrong to feel that God has forgiven you. If you have been praying and speaking with Him, wont He talk to you? Are Catholics not allowed to trust their heart and ignore messages from God, are they only allowed to listen to a priest? Priests are special yes, but theyre just humans too, I dont get why a Catholic has to be so separated from God.

I also dont get why all of the sudden divorce is such a hot topic on this particular thread. There are so many previously divorced and remarried Catholics on this forum alone, I feel like even though this is a rule, no one in the American Catholic system bothers much to follow it anymore, and if they do they just go through gymnastics to get it annulled. So why does everyone care so much now? Because its fun to bash on a poster at this particular moment?

I really want to come back to the Church but when I see bitter, vicious bashing and arguing like this I really start to question whether or not its a good idea. The Church’s teachings are great but when they get expressed through the human beings that are apart of it, it gets really worrisome. Just makes me wonder.

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

Starfish,

One thing on this thread that really concerns me is all of these posts. I have seen comments such that have said things along the lines of “Youre lucky God hasnt given up on you, he gives up on other people but not you” —wait WHAT?! God gives up on people? Is that a Catholic belief?! Really?!

Also, I dont get how its so wrong to feel that God has forgiven you. If you have been praying and speaking with Him, wont He talk to you? Are Catholics not allowed to trust their heart and ignore messages from God, are they only allowed to listen to a priest? Priests are special yes, but theyre just humans too, I dont get why a Catholic has to be so separated from God.

I also dont get why all of the sudden divorce is such a hot topic on this particular thread. There are so many previously divorced and remarried Catholics on this forum alone, I feel like even though this is a rule, no one in the American Catholic system bothers much to follow it anymore, and if they do they just go through gymnastics to get it annulled. So why does everyone care so much now? Because its fun to bash on a poster at this particular moment?

I really want to come back to the Church but when I see bitter, vicious bashing and arguing like this I really start to question whether or not its a good idea. The Church’s teachings are great but when they get expressed through the human beings that are apart of it, it gets really worrisome. Just makes me wonder.

So, because divorce is common, we ought not be upset?

You should be happy people are recognizing that sin is evil, and divorce (civil divorce, without an annulment) is a sin.

All of Heaven rejoices at the conversion of one sinner.

 

[Starfish]

Starfish,

One thing on this thread that really concerns me is all of these posts. I have seen comments such that have said things along the lines of “Youre lucky God hasnt given up on you, he gives up on other people but not you” —wait WHAT?! God gives up on people? Is that a Catholic belief?! Really?!

Also, I dont get how its so wrong to feel that God has forgiven you. If you have been praying and speaking with Him, wont He talk to you? Are Catholics not allowed to trust their heart and ignore messages from God, are they only allowed to listen to a priest? Priests are special yes, but theyre just humans too, I dont get why a Catholic has to be so separated from God.

I also dont get why all of the sudden divorce is such a hot topic on this particular thread. There are so many previously divorced and remarried Catholics on this forum alone, I feel like even though this is a rule, no one in the American Catholic system bothers much to follow it anymore, and if they do they just go through gymnastics to get it annulled. So why does everyone care so much now? Because its fun to bash on a poster at this particular moment?

I really want to come back to the Church but when I see bitter, vicious bashing and arguing like this I really start to question whether or not its a good idea. The Church’s teachings are great but when they get expressed through the human beings that are apart of it, it gets really worrisome. Just makes me wonder.

lostandconfused,

I guess that is how some folks are. I BELIEVE and KNOW that when I repent of my sins, that GOD has forgiven me. I have been accused of “knowing what is in God’s mind” and all that.

When I started posting here, I was NOT bashing. I never have. I had merely stated WHAT I LEARNED long ago. If things have changed, why can’t I be told in a gentle manner, rather than to be yelled at, telling me that I am repeataing “rumors” I heard and other stuff.

God has not given up on me. Nor will He. I believe in God and know what He has done for my salvation.

Thank you.

 

[daughteroftruth]

I guess that is how some folks are. I BELIEVE and KNOW that when I repent of my sins, that GOD has forgiven me.

When one is sorry one makes restitution and obeys the “pardoning Christ” Who said “Go and sin no more.” If a Christian is living in a state of sin, he or she will (**if **they’re actually sorry) will stop. They will not make excuses and justify their sinful lifestyle. Christ never gave permission to pick and choose which of His teachings we would accept. He did say the we are to carry our crosses and follow Him, not our own personal desires that contradict His infallible Word. “Not everyone who says to Me ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of Heaven.”

 

[Always_For_Him]

Starfish,
I understand where you are coming from (at least in some respects.) I know it is VERY difficult to have people telling you that you are wrong about this or that. I have a LOT of Protestant influence on me, and it has been so very difficult to get it out of my head and heart. If you give a man an inch, he will make it a mile. That is the problem with humans, we will always choose the easier or most convenient route, then rationalize and justify these choices in all sorts of ways to “make it ok.” Since the Reformation, look how much has changed away from Apostolic teaching. These deviations are teachings of man, not the Truth given to us by Jesus through His Apostles and their successors. Just read the ECF’s. There are writings from the earliest of Christians on most every subject we discuss, but most people just won’t or don’t care to take the time to read it because they already believe they know the Truth.

Your heart has to be open to the truth. If you don’t want to consider divorce is wrong, then you will close your heart to fully understanding why. If you don’t want to consider birth control is wrong, then you will close your heart to the Truth. I am not saying that you believe these things, I am using “you” in a general sense.

I have come a long way since my 20’s when I thought I knew everything. I finally realized that I was being selfish. I was NOT letting God lead me, and that I had a closed heart to the Truth. Once I opened my heart and just humbled myself to WHATEVER God wanted me to realize, the Truth just started coming.

It takes a big man/woman to admit they are wrong or have been wrong, especially when it comes to their religious beliefs and practices. We are not our own authority. We think we are, but we are not. Once I realized how wrong I was, and owned it, EVERYTHING changed!!! It is a daily struggle to submit to God because I want what I want, the way I want it, and I have to make conscious choices every day to do God’s will over my own. I wasn’t willing to do that very well when I was younger.

The Church doesn’t teach that divorce is wrong, birth-control is wrong, abortion is wrong, masturbation is wrong, glutony is wrong, etc… to just make our lives miserable. This has been taught and believed from the very beginning. These are Jesus’ rules. If we don’t like them, well tough!!! Times may change, but Jesus’ Way that HE established for us doesn’t change. He didn’t say, “OK, now in the 20th century, I think that it will be ok for you not to put My Will and design for you first, so you can abort that child that you don’t want, never mind it is a miracle and a gift from me.” “And another thing, if you don’t want kids, you don’t need to be open to My Will for you there either. It will be ok to take birth control pills, because I probably won’t know what is best for you then.”

By the way, before you pounce on me for thinking I am addressing this to you, I am not. This is in general about MAN twisting everything to suit his own wants and selfish needs. THIS is WHY Jesus established a Church on earth and gave it leaders to guide it on earth. He knew men’s sinful nature and, and that we would need a visible Church to guide the way for us. If you just leave it up to man, you get what we see not just in Protestantism, but even in Catholocism, people who put their own ideas, wants, needs, selfishness first, pick and choose the “rules” to live by and ignore the ones they don’t like. When you are taught error as truth, then you haven’t really ever known the Truth. When you rationalize and justify error and lie to yourself about it, eventually that error becomes truth for those that do it.

No one wants to hear they are wrong in something that they firmly believe is right. But, in these instances, whether we like it or not, it was Jesus’ Will that we submit to the Church, His Church for His Will.

 

[kage_ar]

Imagine you want for a job at a bank. You are asked to count change, and you count back money and give someone two $5 bills, you say “here is 17 dollars”. The people who are training you and your coworkers think for a momen that you have just made a mistake. You keep insisting that two $5 bills equal 17 dollars. You say “I went to private Arithmetic school, I was there for 13 years, and I was taught that five plus five IS 17”.

Just because you were taught this, that does not make it true. 5 plus 5 will always be 10, no matter what you were taught.

A sincere person, when they have been presented with the facts and shown that they were taught error would accept the truth.

What you were taught about the Church was an error. That does not make you a bad person, it just makes you an ill informed person. You have now been directed where to find the truth. As a sincere person, I would expect now you will educate yourself in the truth of the Church.

 

[Starfish]

Starfish,
I understand where you are coming from (at least in some respects.) I know it is VERY difficult to have people telling you that you are wrong about this or that. I have a LOT of Protestant influence on me, and it has been so very difficult to get it out of my head and heart. If you give a man an inch, he will make it a mile. That is the problem with humans, we will always choose the easier or most convenient route, then rationalize and justify these choices in all sorts of ways to “make it ok.” Since the Reformation, look how much has changed away from Apostolic teaching. These deviations are teachings of man, not the Truth given to us by Jesus through His Apostles and their successors. Just read the ECF’s. There are writings from the earliest of Christians on most every subject we discuss, but most people just won’t or don’t care to take the time to read it because they already believe they know the Truth.

Your heart has to be open to the truth. If you don’t want to consider divorce is wrong, then you will close your heart to fully understanding why. If you don’t want to consider birth control is wrong, then you will close your heart to the Truth. I am not saying that you believe these things, I am using “you” in a general sense.

I have come a long way since my 20’s when I thought I knew everything. I finally realized that I was being selfish. I was NOT letting God lead me, and that I had a closed heart to the Truth. Once I opened my heart and just humbled myself to WHATEVER God wanted me to realize, the Truth just started coming.

It takes a big man/woman to admit they are wrong or have been wrong, especially when it comes to their religious beliefs and practices. We are not our own authority. We think we are, but we are not. Once I realized how wrong I was, and owned it, EVERYTHING changed!!! It is a daily struggle to submit to God because I want what I want, the way I want it, and I have to make conscious choices every day to do God’s will over my own. I wasn’t willing to do that very well when I was younger.

The Church doesn’t teach that divorce is wrong, birth-control is wrong, abortion is wrong, masturbation is wrong, glutony is wrong, etc… to just make our lives miserable. This has been taught and believed from the very beginning. These are Jesus’ rules. If we don’t like them, well tough!!! Times may change, but Jesus’ Way that HE established for us doesn’t change. He didn’t say, “OK, now in the 20th century, I think that it will be ok for you not to put My Will and design for you first, so you can abort that child that you don’t want, never mind it is a miracle and a gift from me.” “And another thing, if you don’t want kids, you don’t need to be open to My Will for you there either. It will be ok to take birth control pills, because I probably won’t know what is best for you then.”

By the way, before you pounce on me for thinking I am addressing this to you, I am not. This is in general about MAN twisting everything to suit his own wants and selfish needs. THIS is WHY Jesus established a Church on earth and gave it leaders to guide it on earth. He knew men’s sinful nature and, and that we would need a visible Church to guide the way for us. If you just leave it up to man, you get what we see not just in Protestantism, but even in Catholocism, people who put their own ideas, wants, needs, selfishness first, pick and choose the “rules” to live by and ignore the ones they don’t like. When you are taught error as truth, then you haven’t really ever known the Truth. When you rationalize and justify error and lie to yourself about it, eventually that error becomes truth for those that do it.

No one wants to hear they are wrong in something that they firmly believe is right. But, in these instances, whether we like it or not, it was Jesus’ Will that we submit to the Church, His Church for His Will.

Greetings,

No, I was not about to “pounc” on you, I am interesting in what folks have to say. I’ve learned a lot on this thread alone, mostly from those who speak gently and not accuse me of whatever wrongdoing they feel. I’ve read back a number of responses and will read more when I do have the opportunity and ability to type. My hand is in a cast (surgery) and it is very difficult to write now.

What I wanted to say is that I recognised the “editorial you” in your message. Thank you so much and I wish you and your family a very blessed Easter.