" I shall not tell your enemies the secret"

[nablaise]

Hi,

Can someone explain what this means precisely?
I got it from the cathechism. What’s meant by telling the ennemi the secret?

1386 Before so great a sacrament, the faithful can only echo humbly and with ardent faith the words of the Centurion: “Domine, non sum dignus ut intres sub tectum meum, sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea” (“Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul will be healed.”).219 And in the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom the faithful pray in the same spirit:

O Son of God, bring me into communion today with your mystical supper. I shall not tell your enemies the secret, nor kiss you with Judas’ kiss. But like the good thief I cry, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

God bless

 

[PKinsale]

Perhaps it refers to the fact that Judas gave Our Lord up to the enemy? A quick Google search turns up nothing.

 

[kage_ar]

Saying “Lord, I will not do to you what Judas did”.

Judas gave Jesus to Jesus’ enemies, and did that with a kiss.

 

[patrick457]

Hi,

Can someone explain what this means precisely?
I got it from the cathechism. What’s meant by telling the ennemi the secret?

Here is the whole prayer (Note that there are variants of this prayer amongst the many recensions of the Divine Liturgy):

I believe, O Lord, and I confess, that You are truly the Christ, the Son of the living God, who came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the first.

I also believe that this is truly Your pure Body and that this is truly Your precious Blood. Therefore, I pray to You: have mercy upon me, and forgive my transgressions, voluntary and involuntary, in word and deed, known and unknown.

And make me worthy without condemnation to partake of Your pure Mysteries for the forgiveness of sins and for life everlasting. Amen.

Of Your Mystical Supper, O Son of God, receive me today as a partaker; I will not reveal Your mystery to Your adversaries, nor will I give You a kiss as did Judas, but as the thief I confess to You: “Remember me, O Lord in Your kingdom.”

May the communion of Your Holy Mysteries be neither to my judgment, nor to my condemnation, O Lord, but to the healing of soul and body. Amen.

‘I will not reveal Your mysteries to Your enemies’, that is clear enough I think.

 

[nablaise]

That is a very nice prayer.

But I still don’t understand how would one reveal the mysteries to the adversaries. I mean, it can’t be telling them that the Lord is real present in the Eucharist…I guess, they know that we believe it…

Well, I have a feeling that it is associated to Judas revealing the meeting place to the ennemis. For us, I am not sure what would be the equivalent. May be for early christians could be equivalent to revealing the underground place of worship…?!

I am sure it has something with receiving the sacrament unworthly. But I can’t find a good description…wording…

It reminded me of Samson. He revealed the secret of his strenght…

Could this mean that we shouldn’t reveal the secret of the gifts we receive from the Eucharist to ‘unworthy’ people? I mean they may come and abuse it like thinking of it as a magical thing and selling of Ebay kind of thing…is that it???

I was participating to a foundamentalists forum recently, and everytime I would share biblical truth as we know them in the Catholic Church, they would so passionate in refuting them that it would feel like I am helping them in desacrating the word of God and blaspheming. The same thing happened to an atheists web sites. You know how some people are glad to say all kinds of word to anything just because it is catholic…

I learned that the Word of God as the Church teaches us is sacred. We shouldn’t expose it to people who are not disposed to receiving it because they would only abuse it and bring condamnation to themselves and ourselves…Now I am considering a sacrilege to use Scripture in any unwholy manner. Like debates or discussion which exposes Christ more to be crucified than to be worshipped. I have had this understanding for a while, but when I read that quote in the CCC I had a feeling I know what it means, yet couldnt’ formulate it. Now that I just wrote this. I think it is it. Judas told the secret of where Christ is and exposed him to be cruxified.

Some times we also expose Christ to be cruxified in many ways…while we think we are loving him or pretend to love him…Judas kiss … I guess this is it?!

God bless

 

[Nickkname]

It means not telling the Mysteries of the Faith to the non-Christians. It’s an ancient practice, dating back to the Apostles. The Church knew that only those who were baptized could learn the Mysteries, because the ignorant would not understand them, and so, if they learned about them, they would mock the Mysteries. I believe a certain Church Father spoke about this in one of his books or letters, but his name escapes my memory.

 

[wynd]

It sounds very similar to: “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.”

 

[bpbasilphx]

Many Byzantine prayers and hymns (such as this) are supposed to be read as POETRY, and not parsed as prosaically as Latin liturgical formularies lend themselves.

It’s clearly a reference to the pre-Constantinian “disciplina arcani”–that some things were kept secret from non-believers and even from Catechumens until they were actually baptized.

 

[nablaise]

It means not telling the Mysteries of the Faith to the non-Christians. It’s an ancient practice, dating back to the Apostles. The Church knew that only those who were baptized could learn the Mysteries, because the ignorant would not understand them, and so, if they learned about them, they would mock the Mysteries. I believe a certain Church Father spoke about this in one of his books or letters, but his name escapes my memory.

Thanks that’s simply put. I liked how you used the word’ mock’ because this is what I have experienced.

It sounds very similar to: “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.”

Thank you very much for this. I have bee thinking about this quote too. In fact I almost put it in there. When I was discussing with atheist at a certain points I got so annoyed and couldn’t understand what was happening. Then I would kind of hear this quote in the background, I guess it was my angel telling what was happening…

I think this explains why usually catholics don’t engage in apologitics discussions whith people who are very anti-catholic/christian. It would be the reason the Church is accused of having prevented the world from reading the Bible. I guess it didn’t prevent it, it just wanted people to read it within the ‘living tradition’ of the Church’ like it still does today. She knows what happens when people play around what is sacred.

God bless

 

[patrick457]

It means not telling the Mysteries of the Faith to the non-Christians. It’s an ancient practice, dating back to the Apostles. The Church knew that only those who were baptized could learn the Mysteries, because the ignorant would not understand them, and so, if they learned about them, they would mock the Mysteries. I believe a certain Church Father spoke about this in one of his books or letters, but his name escapes my memory.

Yes. It also served a practical purpose too; not telling the Mysteries of the Faith to unbelievers would guarantee its safety, because in most places at that time being a Christian could easily cost you your life, and there would be (and there were) people who would ‘hand up’ (Latin tradire, from where we get the words ‘tradition’ and ‘traitor’) these Secrets to the authorities which may put them in danger of being profaned. Apparently, because of this element of secrecy, many saw Early Christianity as just another one of those exotic Mystery Religions (albeit, at least in some periods of time, an illegal one).

One such way of ensuring secrecy in the Early Church was sending the Catechumens away just before the consecration of the Bread and Wine (this is the reason why the Mass was formerly divided into the ‘Mass of Catechumens’ and the ‘Mass of the Faithful’); they can only attend the reading of the Scriptures.

 

[patrick457]

One early reference on ‘setting apart holy things’ we have is St. Paul, writing to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 3: 1-3a):

Brothers, I could not talk to you as spiritual people, but as fleshly people, as infants in Christ. I fed you milk, not solid food, because you were unable to take it. Indeed, you are still not able, even now, for you are still of the flesh.

The Corinthians were still considered as ‘infants in Christ’ by Paul, still unable to eat the ‘solid food’ of the Gospel, thus Paul at first just taught them the basics (the ‘milk’). However, Paul told them that “mature” saints were taught the “mysterious and hidden wisdom of God” (1 Corinthians 2:6-7). This hidden wisdom undoubtedly constituted part of the “solid food” that the Apostle withheld from them.

Later, St. Ignatius of Antioch, when writing to the Trallians, mention thus (Epistle to the Trallians, 5-6):

Am I incapable of writing to you of heavenly things? No, indeed; but I am afraid to harm you, seeing you are mere babes. You must forgive me, but the chances are you could not accept what I have to say and would choke yourselves. Even in my own case, it is not because I am a prisoner and can grasp heavenly mysteries, the ranks of angels, the array of principalities, things visible and invisible–it is not because of all that that I am a genuine disciple as yet.

I therefore exhort you, yet not I but the love of Jesus Christ, to use the Christian food alone, and to abstain from all strange herbage, which is heresy; the time that now is embraces Jesus Christ, not the devil. Therefore, having again put on patience, refresh yourselves in faith, which is the flesh of the Lord, and love, which is the blood of Jesus Christ.

Clement of Alexandria seems to be of the idea that Christianity is the pure representative of God’s true Mysteries, which others have stolen and corrupted. In his Exhortation to the Heathen (chapter 12), he gives an exhortation to Pagans to abandon their old ways and follow the Lord:

Come, O madman, not leaning on the thyrsus, not crowned with ivy; throw away the mitre, throw away the fawn-skin; come to your senses. I will show you the Word, and the mysteries of the Word, expounding them after your own fashion.

This is the mountain beloved by God, not the subject of tragedies like Cithaeron, but consecrated to dramas of the truth,— a mount of sobriety, shaded with forests of purity; and there revel on it not the Maenades, the sisters of Semele, who was struck by the thunderbolt, practising in their initiatory rites unholy division of flesh, but the daughters of God, the fair lambs, who celebrate the holy rites of the Word, raising a sober choral dance. The righteous are the chorus; the music is a hymn of the King of the universe. The maidens strike the lyre, the angels praise, the prophets speak; the sound of music issues forth, they run and pursue the jubilant band; those that are called make haste, eagerly desiring to receive the Father.

Come also, O aged man, leaving Thebes, and casting away from you both divination and Bacchic frenzy, allow yourself to be led to the truth. I give you the staff [of the cross] on which to lean.

Haste, Tiresias; believe, and you will see. Christ, by whom the eyes of the blind recover sight, will shed on you a light brighter than the sun; night will flee from you, fire will fear, death will be gone; you, old man, who saw not Thebes, shall see the heavens.

**O truly sacred mysteries! O stainless light! My way is lighted with torches, and I survey the heavens and God; I become holy while I am initiated. The Lord is the hierophant, and seals while illuminating him who is initiated, and presents to the Father him who believes, to be kept safe for ever.

Such are the reveries of my mysteries. If it is your wish, be also initiated; and you shall join the choir along with angels around the unbegotten and indestructible and the only true God, the Word of God, raising the hymn with us. This Jesus, who is eternal, the one great High Priest of the one God, and of His Father, prays for and exhorts men.**

 

[Digitonomy]

One such way of ensuring secrecy in the Early Church was sending the Catechumens away just before the consecration of the Bread and Wine (this is the reason why the Mass was formerly divided into the ‘Mass of Catechumens’ and the ‘Mass of the Faithful’); they can only attend the reading of the Scriptures.

Fascinating, I always thought that was a bit of an odd tradition. This makes much more sense.

 

[PKinsale]

Fascinating, I always thought that was a bit of an odd tradition. This makes much more sense.

This old custom was also picked up by many in RCIA, who take out the catechumens after the Liturgy of the Word at Sunday Mass, for more Bible reading and discussion.

 

[Nickkname]

A lot of Christianity dosen’t make sense until you research. This is why the Church continuously urges us to “learn the Faith, learn the history.” She dares us to question authority and facts, so that we may arrive at the truth. This, for me, is proof that Christianity is the one true religon. I know of no other religoon or faith or sect or cult that urges its followers to be so persistant and viligiant in the search for the truth. In brief, Christianity really has nothing to hide. It is a city of light on a hill (um, I forget the Bible verse…dose anyone know it, by any chance?).

 

[wynd]

Fascinating, I always thought that was a bit of an odd tradition. This makes much more sense.

Since we are talking about the Liturgy of St. John, I thought I would throw this in. Before the Creed is said, the deacon says: “The doors, the doors; in wisdom let us attend!” Back in the day, at this point in the service any unbelievers or remaining catechumens were removed and the church doors were closed.

 

[rwoehmke]

Yes. It also served a practical purpose too; not telling the Mysteries of the Faith to unbelievers would guarantee its safety, because in most places at that time being a Christian could easily cost you your life, and there would be (and there were) people who would 'hand up these Secrets to the authorities which may put them in danger of being profaned.

One such way of ensuring secrecy in the Early Church was sending the Catechumens away just before the consecration of the Bread and Wine (this is the reason why the Mass was formerly divided into the ‘Mass of Catechumens’ and the ‘Mass of the Faithful’); they can only attend the reading of the Scriptures.

In the early Church catechumens were not taught certain things about the Eucharistic part of the Mass until they had undergone the Easter Vigil and become full members in the Church. These matters were kept secret from outsiders and catechumens. Part of the Mystigogia, further instruction and formation, which took place after the Vigil consisted of this information. If I am not mistaken another name for the sacraments was mysteries of our faith.

 

[Digitonomy]

This old custom was also picked up by many in RCIA, who take out the catechumens after the Liturgy of the Word at Sunday Mass, for more Bible reading and discussion.

I was aware of the RCIA tradition, but I had always assumed they did this because the catechumens could not receive the Eucharist. It didn’t seem a very good reason considering that random visitors off the street are allowed to sit through the Liturgy of the Eucharist. It still strikes me as a bit odd, since we no longer keep any secrets about this, but sometimes tradition is its own argument.

 

[patrick457]

Since we are talking about the Liturgy of St. John, I thought I would throw this in. Before the Creed is said, the deacon says: “The doors, the doors; in wisdom let us attend!” Back in the day, at this point in the service any unbelievers or remaining catechumens were removed and the church doors were closed.

The church of Rome originally had this form of the Dismissal of the Catechumens: ‘Si quis non communicat, det locum!’ (If anyone does not communicate, let him depart [literally: *give up his place]!).

This form of the Dismissal is mentioned by Pope Gregory the Great in his Dialogues, where he relates a rather interesting anecdote:

Peter (the Deacon): “I confess that your words have satisfied my doubtful mind. But I would know what manner of man (Benedict) was in his ordinary talk and conversation.”

Gregory: "(Benedict’s) common talk, Peter, was usually full of virtue; for his heart conversed to above in heaven, that no words could in vain proceed from his mouth. And if at any time he spoke anything, yet not as one that determined what was best to be done, but only in a threatening manner, his speech in that case was so effectual and forcible, as though he had not doubtfully or uncertainly, but assuredly pronounced and given sentence.

For not far from his Abbey, there lived two Nuns in a place by themselves, born of worshipful parentage; whom a religious good man served for the dispatch of their outward business. But as nobility of family does in some breed ignobility of mind, and makes them in conversation to show less humility, because they remember still what superiority they had above others.

Even so was it with these Nuns, for they had not yet learned to temper their tongues, and keep them under with the bridle of their habit. For often by their indiscreet speech they provoked the aforesaid religious man to anger; who having borne with them a long time, at length he complained to the man of God, and told him with what reproachful words they entreated him, whereupon he sent them by and by this message, saying: “Amend your tongues, otherwise I do excommunicate you”, which sentence of excommunication notwithstanding, he did not then presently pronounce against them, but only threatened if they did not amend themselves.

But they, for all this, changed their conditions nothing at all. Both which not long after departed this life, and were buried in the Church. When solemn Mass was celebrated in the same Church, and the Deacon, according to custom, said with loud voice: “If any there be that do not communicate, let them depart”, the nurse, which used to give to our Lord an offering for them, saw them at that time rising out of their graves, and to depart the Church.

Having often times, at those words of the Deacon, seen them leave the Church, and that they could not tarry within, she remembered what message the man of God sent them while they were yet alive. For he told them that he deprived them of the communion, unless they amended their tongues and conditions.

Then with great sorrow, the whole matter was signified to the man of God, who immediately with his own hands gave an oblation, saying: “Go your ways, and cause this to be offered to our Lord for them, and they shall not remain any longer excommunicate”.

Which Oblation being offered for them, and the Deacon, as he used, crying out, that such as did not communicate should depart, they were not seen any more to go out of the church, whereby it was certain that, seeing they did not depart with them who did not communicate, that they had received the communion of our Lord by the hands of his servant."

 

[patrick457]

Other forms for Dismissals are:

“Si quis catechumenus procedat, si quis Judaeus procedat, si quis Paganus procedat, si quis Haereticus procedat (si quis Arrianus procedat), cujus cura non est procedat.”

Let any catechumens who are here depart; if anyone is a Jew, let him depart; if anyone is a Pagan, let him depart; if anyone is a Heretic, let him depart; (if anyone is an Arian, let him depart those to whom [the Church] takes no care (i.e. Excommunicates; could also be taken to mean as ‘those outside the charge of the Church’, i.e. Catechumens) should depart.

From the Divine Liturgy of St. James: “Let none remain of the catechumens, none of the unbaptized, none of those who are unable to join with us in prayer. Look at one another. The doors! Let all stand upright.”

From the Divine Liturgy of St. Mark: “Take care that none of the catechumens (remain).”

From the Holy Qurbana of Addai and Mari: “Let him who has not received Baptism depart; let him who has not accepted the sign of life depart; let him who does not receive it depart. Go, hearers, and watch the doors!”

From the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil: “All catechumens, depart! Catechumens, depart! All catechumens, depart! Let no catechumen remain.”

From St. Isidore’s Dialogues (Book VI 18: 4): “Si quis catechumenus remansit, exeat foras!” (If any one of the catechumens remain, let him go out):

Missa tempore sacrificii est, quando catechumeni foris mittuntur, clamante levita: ‘Si quis catechumenus remansit, exeat foras’; et inde missa…

At the time of the Sacrifice the Dismissal is when the catechumens are sent out, as the Deacon cries: “If any one of the catechumens remain, let him go out”; and thence it is the Dismissal…

 

[PKinsale]

Other forms for Dismissals are:

“Si quis catechumenus procedat, si quis Judaeus procedat, si quis Paganus procedat, si quis Haereticus procedat (si quis Arrianus procedat), cujus cura non est procedat.”

Let any catechumens who are here depart; if anyone is a Jew, let him depart; if anyone is a Pagan, let him depart; if anyone is a Heretic, let him depart; (if anyone is an Arian, let him depart those to whom [the Church] takes no care (i.e. Excommunicates; could also be taken to mean as ‘those outside the charge of the Church’, i.e. Catechumens) should depart.

Wow! Where’s that from! It’s so powerful!