I squealed on my priest: Now What?

[Brendan]

4 marks:

What I am trying to say is that…given the larger scheme of things…is it really worth it to get so discombobulated over this.

4M,

This priest is disregarding the Law of the Church? Why should we not care when that happens?

And if he is doing it deliberately, he is disobeying his vow of obedience. That is a very serious matter and should not be ignored lightly.

 

[netmilsmom]

john ennis:

My parish has long prepared kids for First Penance two years after First Communion.

What would you do? I have another good nearby parish which I used to be a member of. I’m thinking of switching just to avoid the awkwardness.
Peace.
John

I was in your shoes.
Move to the new parish and pray for those you left behind.

Feel good in the Lord’s eyes that you did the right thing.
In our area, they are talking about closing parishes. I talked with my feet and went where the truth is for my children.

 

[netmilsmom]

4 marks:

What I am trying to say is that…given the larger scheme of things…is it really worth it to get so discombobulated over this. It sure sounds to me as if you have a personal ax to grind with the man. Let me guess…he’s one of them there progressive types. Start gatherin’ the wood boys, this one’s a gonna make us all one heck of a bonfire.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

If you have children, you should understand.
I spent much of my time undoing what my 1st grader was taught at the tune of 150.00 for CCD.
Once one understands that children are not being taught correctly, it is up to all of us to get them the proper training.
Sounds like you have a little ax to grind yourself.

 

[4_marks]

4M,

This priest is disregarding the Law of the Church? Why should we not care when that happens?

And if he is doing it deliberately, he is disobeying his vow of obedience. That is a very serious matter and should not be ignored lightly.

Before we go jumping to conclusions, I would be interested in hearing the priest out. I am sure that he has valid reasons for doing what he has done. Parishoners can be hyper-critical of priests they don’t like. Some look for convenient excuses to screw them to the wall whenever they can.

 

[4_marks]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

If you have children, you should understand.
I spent much of my time undoing what my 1st grader was taught at the tune of 150.00 for CCD.
Once one understands that children are not being taught correctly, it is up to all of us to get them the proper training.
Sounds like you have a little ax to grind yourself.

And just what in your estimation is “proper training?” The stuff that you read about written by Karl or Jimmy or the “flavor of the week” tow-the-traditionalist/conservative line apologist at this site, or is it the theological psychobabble found on EWTN? News flash. Maybe you should seriously consider volunteering as a religious education instructor if you are not happy with the way your kids are being taught?

 

[4_marks]

Whose problem is that? If you saw something that was lacking in their spiritual development, why didn’t you as their primary catechist bring them to a place that was more to your liking? I’m afraid that they are too old now to be dragged into a Reconciliation Room against their will.

Are you sure that you were actually going to a Catholic Church. I don’t see how they could never have been told about the Sacrament of Reconciliation along the way. It is up to the parents, not the catechists and not the parish priest, to make sure that their kids get to confession frequently if that is deemed to be so important. It takes a village?..yeah right. What-ever.

 

[netmilsmom]

4 marks:

And just what in your estimation is “proper training?” The stuff that you read about written by Karl or Jimmy or the “flavor of the week” tow-the-traditionalist/conservative line apologist at this site, or is it the theological psychobabble found on EWTN? News flash. Maybe you should seriously consider volunteering as a religious education instructor if you are not happy with the way your kids are being taught?

NEWS FLASH!
I DID volunteer to assist in my daughter’s first grade class. I was appalled at what they were teaching! And you know what? I tried the talking to the DRE route myself. She didn’t want to hear it. I was on the Education Committee as my daughter entered 2nd grade. She was the only child in her class who could say The Our Father and Hail Mary. They didn’t “have the time” to teach these prayers. This school was not going to teach an “Act of Contrition” because “They forget it anyway” My daughter could get a better education for free at the lutheran church. You have no clue what you are talking about.

There is no “Flavor of the Week”. There is the true Catechism and nothing else. If you want to be a Protestant, more power to you. But my children need be be taught in my faith, not by Protestant Wannabes. If nothing else, I’m paying for a product. They were not delivering.

As my new Pastor stated, “One could get more Catholic training out of a good Baptist church, than those CCD books.”
See?

 

[4_marks]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

NEWS FLASH!
I DID volunteer to assist in my daughter’s first grade class. I was appalled at what they were teaching! And you know what? I tried the talking to the DRE route myself. She didn’t want to hear it. I was on the Education Committee as my daughter entered 2nd grade. She was the only child in her class who could say The Our Father and Hail Mary. They didn’t “have the time” to teach these prayers. This school was not going to teach an “Act of Contrition” because “They forget it anyway” My daughter could get a better education for free at the lutheran church. You have no clue what you are talking about.

There is no “Flavor of the Week”. There is the true Catechism and nothing else. If you want to be a Protestant, more power to you. But my children need be be taught in my faith, not by Protestant Wannabes. If nothing else, I’m paying for a product. They were not delivering.

As my new Pastor stated, “One could get more Catholic training out of a good Baptist church, than those CCD books.”
See?

At least you volunteered. So many parishoners just send their kids off to CCD and expect others to handle it. It sounds to me as if the DRE was the problem. And maybe the priest colluded with her. If the majority of parents were upset about it, then, obviously, there must have been a problem.

 

[kmktexas]

4marks,

Respectfully, you need to get out more.

First of all, your comment on progressive priests. Progressive is a matter of style, improvisation is a matter of disobedience. Preparing the kids for First Communion two years before First Pennance is grossly disobedient. For a priest or DRE to tell you they are being progressive when they are, in fact, disobeying the Church is just lying.

From what I gather on this board, the vast majority of us either have taught CCE, volunteered in the classroom, homeschooled Religion or taught in Catholic schools. It is pretty obvious that you haven’t looked at the currently available material for CCE, especially for the early elementary years. The books are full of things like references to the Eucharist as a sign, wrong explanations of transubstantiation, wrong explanations of the character of the Holy Spirit, etc. Don’t take my word for it. The bishops conference recently had a review of the approved texts. NOT ONE SERIES passed. For each series, in at least one year, there were serious theological errors. Yes, the parents are the primary educators, but we are facing a generation of kids whose own parents were the lucky products of the “feel good”, “love everybody” moral relativist so-called catechesis of the 70s and 80s. Most parents wouldn’t even know where to start sifting through their own knowledge to find out the truth.

Becuase there is no common ground for the parents and teachers, the DREs frequently dictate that the texts not be deviated from. So a good teacher doesn’t necessarily mean you can get the garbage out of the curriculum.

There is a whole crop of priests out there who downplay the Sacrament of Pennance. At my own parish, we are recovering from a previous pastor who did not ever hold regular hours for Confessions, only offered general absolution, would not hear confession by appointment and who taught several years worth of RCIA candidates, most of whom had been previously Baptized. None of the RCIA candidates were even told of the need to make a general confession. It isn’t reasonable for you to expect that they would be able to recognize this as an error, they aren’t even Catholic yet!!!

The line about Karl, Jimmy and EWTN was uncalled for and if you were out there a little more, you would realize that they are probably slightly right of center but no where near the extreme of conservative/traditional views in the church.

I ask you…Is it really the job of the laity to inform the clergy what they should or should not be doing?

Yes, it is our job and has been specifically given to us as a charge in Redemptionis Sacramentum.

Why not investigate him for allegations of sexual misconduct while you are at it? I’m sure that if you bring such a charge, your wish will be granted and he’ll be shipped off to embark upon the joys of prison ministry at Saint Alcatraz in a cell next to some maniac like Joey Druce.

This is a just plain disgusting comment.

 

[krazykatlady]

kmktexas, I can second what you say about what is being taught in Catholic parishes in RCIA. In RCIA we were told very briefly about the sacrament of Confession, were told we didn’t have to go before being received in the Church and receiving first Eucharist and Confirmation, and that it is almost impossible to commit a mortal sin. Well, I wanted to go, so I asked the DRE what was the proper way to go. She refused to tell me. When I pressed her for information she said, “just confess your sins and make an act of contrition.” How are new Catholics to know that this is way off base. There is indeed a concerted effort by certain parties in the Church to do away with the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

 

[mercygate]

4 marks:

I mean could a young child be guilty of a mortal sin?

Of course they can sin mortally. These are not “young” children. They are at least 7 years old. They know right from wrong are are capable of choosing one or the other. That their sins are objectively smaller because children have less scope of action detracts in no way from the damage they can do to themselves and others in the long term.

Looking back, I see very clearly that the sins of my childhood seeded the sin-history of my adolescence and adulthood.

 

[katherine2]

john ennis:

Access which is effectively denied, when the parish’s official, consistent policy is to prepare them for First Communion without preparing them for Confession. In virtually all such cases, parents are not informed as to what Canon 914 requires of them. I would say the percent of parents who know what it says, in such parishes, is in the single digits.

Peace.
John

John,

My issue with you is not in disagreement with your actions, but misplaced priorities. You seem very animated into reporting this priest to the bishop and when the bishop uses his decretion not to respond to your complaint, initiating all sorts of other action.

On the other hand, you’ve not reported to us any action on your part to resolve that aspect of this which is in your immediate ability to resolve and also is you rclear responsibility.

Namely, as you truly are a well informed Catholic, why have you not prepared your child yourself. I can’t believe that if she simply entered the confessional, she would be turned away.

Your first duty as a Christian parent is to your own child. After that, correct all of the world’s problems and shortcomings.

 

[netmilsmom]

4 marks:

At least you volunteered. So many parishoners just send their kids off to CCD and expect others to handle it. It sounds to me as if the DRE was the problem. And maybe the priest colluded with her. If the majority of parents were upset about it, then, obviously, there must have been a problem.

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to go off on you.
I am amazed sometimes on this board that some people deny that there is a problem in some churches.
When the place where one expects to be at home is hostle to that which you know to be true, it can be very frustrating.

I’m still involved with my old parish to a point. I would like them to come back to the True Church. I pray for them because there are people I care about there, especially the children.

 

[Brendan]

4 marks:

Before we go jumping to conclusions, I would be interested in hearing the priest out. I am sure that he has valid reasons for doing what he has done. .

We are talking about Canon LAW here.

If the priest has valid reasons for disregarding that, the correct procedure is to obtain permission from the bishop first.

And actually, since this Canon involves the rights of the faithful to the Sacraments, the body with authority is the USCCB.

Now the USCCB did give permission in the late 70’s, early 80’s, that permission was revoked by Rome.

So either the priest does not know the Rome has denied permission to do what he is doing; in which case the priest should be informed and immediatly begin correcting the situtation.

Or the priest does know and is deliberating violating his Vow of Obedience, in which case the bishop DOES need to be involved. In addition, if the priest DOES know, he is being particularly arrogant, believing his reasons for doing so are more important than the Pope’s reasons for forbidding the practice.

 

[fix]

4 marks:

What did you “snitch” about? I had my First Penance shortly before my First Communion. Did they switch the order or something? Even if they did, would it really matter. I mean could a young child be guilty of a mortal sin?

If over the age of reason, why can they not be guilty of a mortal sin if the requirements for a mortal sin were met?

At Fatima the BVM told the children one of their friends, who was about 9 years old, who had died would be in purgatory until the end of time. Now, the child did not commit a mortal sin, but what could a 9 year old have done to merit such a long time in purgatory? Makes one think.

 

[netmilsmom]

katherine2:

John,

My issue with you is not in disagreement with your actions, but misplaced priorities. You seem very animated into reporting this priest to the bishop and when the bishop uses his decretion not to respond to your complaint, initiating all sorts of other action.

On the other hand, you’ve not reported to us any action on your part to resolve that aspect of this which is in your immediate ability to resolve and also is you rclear responsibility.

Namely, as you truly are a well informed Catholic, why have you not prepared your child yourself. I can’t believe that if she simply entered the confessional, she would be turned away.

Your first duty as a Christian parent is to your own child. After that, correct all of the world’s problems and shortcomings.

John was paying for Catechism. The correct Catechism. This church was not giving the product he was paying for. Why should he have to teach his own child when the church is suppose to be doing it?

If John went to McDonalds and found shards of glass in his child’s milkshake, he could easily pick them out and not report the problem. His child would be okay but how about any other children? Now imagine that he went to the manager and stated that he found shards of glass. The manager stated that the glass won’t hurt anyone and if a customer doesn’t like it, they can pick it out.
What would you do?
Basically this is John’s situation. He is thinking of the immortal souls of the other children. I commend him for it.
Yes, he should teach his own child what is right, but to sit on one’s hands is not the solution.

In my Archdiocese, they are very closed minded to homeschooling Catechism. Maybe they are in his as well.

 

[john_ennis]

4 marks:

Do you pray for your parish priest? I don’t mean do you pray that he will change and conform to what is written in the Code of Canon Law in Canon XVI6756b or something. I mean do you honestly take the time and pray for his well being. He is your pastor after all. The man whom God and his Church have hand chosen and therewith commissioned to shepherd you, a meager layperson. I ask you…Is it really the job of the laity to inform the clergy what they should or should not be doing? Why not investigate him for allegations of sexual misconduct while you are at it? I’m sure that if you bring such a charge, your wish will be granted and he’ll be shipped off to embark upon the joys of prison ministry at Saint Alcatraz in a cell next to some maniac like Joey Druce.

What I am trying to say is that…given the larger scheme of things…is it really worth it to get so discombobulated over this. It sure sounds to me as if you have a personal ax to grind with the man. Let me guess…he’s one of them there progressive types. Start gatherin’ the wood boys, this one’s a gonna make us all one heck of a bonfire.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Look, I appreciate your point about being careful this isn’t a vengeful personal thing.
No. Although pride is a constant danger for me or anyone, this is not about the priest.
This is about children being properly catechized. The Church teaching on this, I believe to be vital, and precious. I would have been delighted either to find: 1) I was wrong, for whatever reason, and the proper preparation of catechists was happening, or 2) my priest was open to the Church’s teaching.

Perhaps your basic assumption is that this is not a big deal. I feel that Canon Law is a big deal. Don’t assume that this could not POSSIBLY be about real concern for following Church teaching.

It is.

Peace. I will pray for him. Please do the same.
John

 

[4_marks]

Perhaps this was done to adapt better to the way children learn. The DRE is an educator after all. I don’t believe it was practiced due to malicious intent, that is, to undermine Church sacramental doctrine.

Consider this:

The key word is recommend… because Canon 914 says that in the first place, it is the parents who see whether their child is ready for the sacrament. Therefore, if you think your child is ready for the sacrament of Penance before First Communion, then I would suggest you go see your parish priest and ask that your child receive the Sacrament. I have seen this happen before where a parent really wanted their child to receive the sacrament of Penance and were willing to do the program on their own with a bit of guidance and their child received the sacrament prior to their First Communion.

Again, perhaps a more loving approach could be taken than to report a priest to a Bishop over something of this nature.

 

[john_ennis]

katherine2:

John,

My issue with you is not in disagreement with your actions, but misplaced priorities. You seem very animated into reporting this priest to the bishop and when the bishop uses his decretion not to respond to your complaint, initiating all sorts of other action.

On the other hand, you’ve not reported to us any action on your part to resolve that aspect of this which is in your immediate ability to resolve and also is you rclear responsibility.

Namely, as you truly are a well informed Catholic, why have you not prepared your child yourself. I can’t believe that if she simply entered the confessional, she would be turned away.

Your first duty as a Christian parent is to your own child. After that, correct all of the world’s problems and shortcomings.

Yes, I have certainly prepared my children, and the two involved DID go to Confession first.

Read my first couple posts: The Bishop hasn’t answered yet; I’m not assuming anything regarding that.

Am I wrong, though to be concerned for the Parish, and our whole Body? What does Redemptionis Sacramentum say. Should I be silent, as long as MY OWN kids get through this okay?

Oh, thanks NETMISLMOM, I hope some see it that way.

 

[4_marks]

Perhaps this was done to adapt better to the way children learn. The DRE is an educator after all. I don’t believe it was practiced due to malicious intent, that is, to undermine Church sacramental doctrine.

Consider this:

The key word is recommend… because Canon 914 says that in the first place, it is the parents who see whether their child is ready for the sacrament. Therefore, if you think your child is ready for the sacrament of Penance before First Communion, then I would suggest you go see your parish priest and ask that your child receive the Sacrament. I have seen this happen before where a parent really wanted their child to receive the sacrament of Penance and were willing to do the program on their own with a bit of guidance and their child received the sacrament prior to their First Communion.

Again, perhaps a more loving approach could be taken than to report a priest to a Bishop over something of this nature.