I still just don't get it

[notself]

i have been in both spots… When i believed there was no God, i was very young & uncatechized and uneducated… and just ignorant… (overly protected by parents… so didn’t know much about life in generall…).

spend time in the Real Presence… then you will know…

I was raised Catholic. I attended parochial school. I attended novenas, retreats and took part in processions on a regular basis. I was married in the Church. My entire family are devout Catholics. I have spent considerable time in Church and observing all the rituals and sacraments. When I attend Church with my family, I see a lovely ritual and hear beautiful music but that is all it is to me.

I don’t believe. Sometimes I wonder if I ever did. It has been so long, I really can’t say.

 

[guanophore]

I was raised Catholic. I attended parochial school. I attended novenas, retreats and took part in processions on a regular basis. I was married in the Church. My entire family are devout Catholics. I have spent considerable time in Church and observing all the rituals and sacraments. When I attend Church with my family, I see a lovely ritual and hear beautiful music but that is all it is to me.

I don’t believe. Sometimes I wonder if I ever did. It has been so long, I really can’t say.

Wow, this is so familiar to me. I went through all this too, empty inside. It was a form of Godliness, without the power thereof.

Why are you here on CAF?

 

[RobHom]

LOL!

I just couldn’t help myself…

 

[notself]

Wow, this is so familiar to me. I went through all this too, empty inside. It was a form of Godliness, without the power thereof.

Why are you here on CAF?

I am not empty inside. My mental life is rich and rewarding. My happiness increases daily. I have less fear and anger and much more compassion than I did even 5 years ago. I just don’t believe in any God.

I am here because I find the various approaches to our lives and to each other to be fascinating. Of course I more clearly understand how Catholics approach things than I do Evangelical Fundamentalist Christians. I belong to an Evangelical forum as well as posting on the religious forum of a secular board and posting on an atheist forum and two Buddhist forums. I enjoy discussing religious point of view.

I am happy for you. You have found your path that gives you comfort and confidence. I have found mine.

 

[notsmart]

notself, its just me notsmart.

I thought of something just now. Lets say you dont feel anything, any tug, at all and have not for a long time, so long you dont remember- as you said.

Would you still listen if he called to you? If you saw, or felt, or had something or somethings happen that made you wonder if it could be something?

Would you be open to hearing if you heard something? Saw or felt something?

I know it should not be based on pure emotion, it should also join with logic and reason, but- if any of these things happened- would you open yourself to the idea?

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;4058698]Are you under some misapprehension that I have forgotten what you posted in the past?

God forbid. Your just to smart for me—:doh2:

I believe that the scriptures are the inspired word of God but i don’t always believe what your church or my church teaches is always right. In sense we must pick and choose what we will
believe to be the truth. I’m would think even you have certain qualms about some issues in your church.

Lets just keep this a secret—

 

[notself]

notself, its just me notsmart.

I thought of something just now. Lets say you dont feel anything, any tug, at all and have not for a long time, so long you dont remember- as you said.

Would you still listen if he called to you? If you saw, or felt, or had something or somethings happen that made you wonder if it could be something?

Would you be open to hearing if you heard something? Saw or felt something?

I know it should not be based on pure emotion, it should also join with logic and reason, but- if any of these things happened- would you open yourself to the idea?

I would have to be certain that something was due to God or Christ and not out of my own mind.

I don’t think that there is anything wrong with pure emotion. I have felt what can only be described as complete bliss during meditation. This was the emotional effect of a well concentrated mind.

I have heard voices while on scuba at about 110 feet. These voices were due to the effects of nitrogen narcosis on my mind.

While running, I experienced what is called a runner’s high and could not feel my body at all. It felt as though I was floating rather than pounding away on the pavement. This was the result of endorphins acting on my mind.

 

[khutcheson]

Ian Paisley of Northern Ireland for one, and Bob Jones of Greenville, SC very proudly sides with Paisley. In fact Jones gave him an honorary degree and spews the same bigoted drivel.

geocities.com/athens/atrium/1678/ian.html Perhaps you would like to spend a few moments reading about the “less than illustrious” Paisley?

zimbio.com/Ian+Paisley/articles/3/Give+me+Gerry+and+Martin

Nothing at all inflammatory…just the truth as it really is.

You accused “Protestant leaders” of advocating genocide against Catholics.

I asked you to back up that serious allegation.

You refer me to a website explaining what a bigot Ian Paisley is.

A. Nothing on that website indicated that he advocated genocide against Catholics.

B. I assumed that when you referred to Protestant leaders you were referring to religious leaders, not political leaders. (I also assumed that you would refer me to American leaders, NOT people associated with the “troubles” in Ireland).

C. Your accusation against Bob Jones was/is cheap. Guilt by association doesn’t support the allegations you made.

You accused Protestant leaders of advocating genocide against Catholics. That’s a serious and offensive allegation. I think you should back it up, or have the integrity to retract it.

 

[RobHom]

You accused “Protestant leaders” of advocating genocide against Catholics.

I asked you to back up that serious allegation.

You refer me to a website explaining what a bigot Ian Paisley is.

A. Nothing on that website indicated that he advocated genocide against Catholics.

You apparently didn’t read enough or get to the heart of the issues discussed. Try again.

B. I assumed that when you referred to Protestant leaders you were referring to religious leaders, not political leaders. (I also assumed that you would refer me to American leaders, NOT people associated with the “troubles” in Ireland).

Never assume. Paisley was both a religious as well as political leader. That should have been abundantly clear. That you failed to see and understand that fact is your failing.

C. Your accusation against Bob Jones was/is cheap. Guilt by association doesn’t support the allegations you made.

Hardly the case… Just google, or use any search engine for that matter, and use these words: Bob Jones Catholics and read to your hearts content. The man, in fact every generation of that family were and are “cracker-headed racist bigots” on every level imaginable.

You accused Protestant leaders of advocating genocide against Catholics. That’s a serious and offensive allegation. I think you should back it up, or have the integrity to retract it.

And its a fact. Paisley advocated genocide on Catholics for years and years. Jones was his good friend, and has been a Catholic hater all of his life. That he is such good friends with Paisley puts the stink on him, and Jones has been a real “cheerleader” or Paisley over the years…

Perhaps you should take an hour or so of your precious time and properly acquaint yourself with a couple of the “icons” of hard-core right-wing bigots who “claim” to be “Christians”…

I’ll not recant a word I’ve said. History bears me out fully. That you fail to see, read and accept “truth” is your failing. Just put the words “kill Catholics Ian Paisley Bob Jones” into any search engine and make sure you have plenty of liquid refreshment to wash down all the crow you will have to eat.

Integrity is not something I am short on. And its upon my integrity I stand. There is no profit in anything for me to state anything false, it is only a matter of truth. If you cannot handle the truth, that is your problem.

 

[notsmart]

I would have to be certain that something was due to God or Christ and not out of my own mind.

I don’t think that there is anything wrong with pure emotion. I have felt what can only be described as complete bliss during meditation. This was the emotional effect of a well concentrated mind.

I have heard voices while on scuba at about 110 feet. These voices were due to the effects of nitrogen narcosis on my mind.

While running, I experienced what is called a runner’s high and could not feel my body at all. It felt as though I was floating rather than pounding away on the pavement. This was the result of endorphins acting on my mind.

I woke up. Cant sleep. Okay, now remember- I said emotion **only **is not good, one must also have to bind it with logic and reason…
(just so you know I dont advocate blind emotion as a reason to do anything)
Lets say this emotion, did connect to something very real. (I wont fill in the blanks, because there could be endless possibilities here)
Would you simply try to push it out of your thoughts, or would you explore it, at least- on a level of investigation?
I was only wondering, because there are so many misconceptions, I think about those of us who have not “seen the light” at some points in our lives. Maybe its too personal to go into detail on this, I know it would have been for me not that long ago. It irked me that people would talk to me as if they had answers to questions of God, yet their lives were a wreck! Telling me all about how wooonderfullll it would be if only…

Anyway, Notself- if you ever need to vent you can feel free to vent to me. I have no answers. I have a lot of questions. But, I really know what its like to be “outnumbered” and wondering why they were so dissapointed in me, when I could not find a single one of them that either had a great grasp of what they actually said they believed in, or did what they claimed to belive in practice.

But, I am here now. I realize people are people, individuals are not good indicators of much. Am I “there” yet? I dont think so.

I hope I never will be, and will always be keeping my eyes and ears open, my heart open and willing, and if - I am misguided… I will be no worse for it.

 

[guanophore]

God forbid. Your just to smart for me—:doh2: Lets just keep this a secret—

Well, it is no secret that you are on a mission to try to give Catholics “qualms” about the Church.

 

[notself]

I woke up. Cant sleep. Okay, now remember- I said emotion **only **is not good, one must also have to bind it with logic and reason…
(just so you know I dont advocate blind emotion as a reason to do anything)
Lets say this emotion, did connect to something very real. (I wont fill in the blanks, because there could be endless possibilities here)
Would you simply try to push it out of your thoughts, or would you explore it, at least- on a level of investigation?
I was only wondering, because there are so many misconceptions, I think about those of us who have not “seen the light” at some points in our lives. Maybe its too personal to go into detail on this, I know it would have been for me not that long ago. It irked me that people would talk to me as if they had answers to questions of God, yet their lives were a wreck! Telling me all about how wooonderfullll it would be if only…

Anyway, Notself- if you ever need to vent you can feel free to vent to me. I have no answers. I have a lot of questions. But, I really know what its like to be “outnumbered” and wondering why they were so dissapointed in me, when I could not find a single one of them that either had a great grasp of what they actually said they believed in, or did what they claimed to belive in practice.

But, I am here now. I realize people are people, individuals are not good indicators of much. Am I “there” yet? I dont think so.

I hope I never will be, and will always be keeping my eyes and ears open, my heart open and willing, and if - I am misguided… I will be no worse for it.

notsmart,

Thank you for your kind words and thoughtful offer.

I am most certainly outnumbered but I don’t feel that anyone among my family or friends is disappointed in me. My family are among the best most observant Catholics I have ever met. They not only talk the talk, they walk the walk. They think me strange, misguided, and probably pray for me, but they do not express disappointment. We seldom talk about religion except in discussion about morality and right action. I have taught them a bit about meditation to help them deal with the frustrations of daily life.

I do get lonely to talk to someone face to face about the path that I follow. I even went to the local Unitarian Universalist Church to find a meditation group. It turns out that the group only wanted to listen to Eckhart Tolle audios. Tolle is not for me, but then neither is Oprah.

Analysis of the mind and its workings is the main focus of the path I walk. In fact, Buddhism has been called the study of the mind. In meditation one observes the thoughts as they come and go. One observes emotions as they come and go. A more accurate term for meditation is mindfulness. One is mindful of the noise that is constantly running through the brain, the constant background chatter of thoughts and emotions. In his book Satipatthana, The Direct Path to Realization, Ven. Analayo makes the following statement about the importance of concentration to the path: "The development of deep concentration leads to a high degree of mastery over the mind. . . . On emerging from deep concentration the mind is ‘maleable,’ ‘workable,’ and ‘steady,’ so that one can easily direct it to seeing things ‘as they trully are.’

It is through this direct observation that progress is made. When I was faced with a diagnosis of breast cancer, this analysis helped me deal with the shock and fear. When my ophthalmologist told me I had the precursor of macular degeneration and may eventually go blind, it was meditation that helped me deal with the news. If through this type of meditative analysis I were to feel, touch, hear or in any way observe a God in the sense that Christians define the term, then I would further explore that experience.

Do you feel comfortable describing your experience in ‘seeing the light”? I would be interested in hearing it. I think we will have much in common in our experiences in finding our paths. When I read the book What the Buddha Taught by Walpola Rahula, it was as though I was thirsty and given a drink of cool water. It was as though I had been in the dark and the sun shone bright and clear. My studies of the suttas and my efforts in meditation has deepened my understanding and strengthened my confidence that this is the correct path for me.

 

[jmcrae]

Of course, I am sure you realize that meditation is a thoroughly Catholic practice, as well. Jesus did it all the time.

 

[notself]

Of course, I am sure you realize that meditation is a thoroughly Catholic practice, as well. Jesus did it all the time.

All of the major religions have some form of meditation practice. All vary in the actual techniques. Hindu and Buddhist meditation have much in common in the technique used for concentration. Buddhism also has a form called Vipassana or insight meditation which, to my knowledge, other religions do not use. Meditation and morality make up the very heart of Buddhist practice. I don’t think meditation plays a very large role in other religions.

Some months ago there was a thread on Centering Prayer. As I understand it, it is a form of meditation but appeared to be very controversial among the Catholic members of this forum.

 

[MDK]

I think you are asking for something that is beyond capability here. This one believes that he has been sent on a mission by God to show Catholics that they are embracing the false teachings of men (which in turn, come from the devil). His stated goal on CAF is to pursuade Catholics to rebel against the Magesterium, confront them for teaching falsehoods, and convert to “bible christians” so they can be saved. Since all of these Catholic doctrines are not from God, there seems to be no obligation to be decent.

God may be allowing him to come here, but the motivating force behind his deceit and lies against the Church is certainly not the Holy Spirit.

 

[RobHom]

I think you are asking for something that is beyond capability here. This one believes that he has been sent on a mission by God to show Catholics that they are embracing the false teachings of men (which in turn, come from the devil). His stated goal on CAF is to pursuade Catholics to rebel against the Magesterium, confront them for teaching falsehoods, and convert to “bible christians” so they can be saved. Since all of these Catholic doctrines are not from God, there seems to be no obligation to be decent.

I do believe you are correct!

What I see his actions as being are as this: :banghead: :hypno: :banghead: “ad infinitum”…

His biggest problem is that he has failed on all counts. His opinions, taken singly…only amount to “an opinion”…and an opinion not 100% supported by incontrovertible facts…is merely “an opinion”… (Now…picture Bugs Bunny saying "Th…Th…Th…That’s all folks!)

 

[jmcrae]

I do believe you are correct!

What I see his actions as being are as this: :banghead: :hypno: :banghead: “ad infinitum”…

His biggest problem is that he has failed on all counts. His opinions, taken singly…only amount to “an opinion”…and an opinion not 100% supported by incontrovertible facts…is merely “an opinion”… (Now…picture Bugs Bunny saying "Th…Th…Th…That’s all folks!)

I always thought that was Porky Pig …

 

[RobHom]

All of the major religions have some form of meditation practice. All vary in the actual techniques. Hindu and Buddhist meditation have much in common in the technique used for concentration. Buddhism also has a form called Vipassana or insight meditation which, to my knowledge, other religions do not use. Meditation and morality make up the very heart of Buddhist practice. I don’t think meditation plays a very large role in other religions.

Actually, “meditation” is one of the subject covered in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

***The Fruits of Meditation (2707-2708)

Christians have a duty to meditate regularly so they will be good soil for God’s Word. Meditation mobilizes our inner faculties and deepens our faith to bring about conversion. Believers must meditate on the mysteries of Christ (as in the rosary), and then go further to a union with Jesus.***

From here: catholicity.com/catechism/expressions_of_prayer.html

Some months ago there was a thread on Centering Prayer. As I understand it, it is a form of meditation but appeared to be very controversial among the Catholic members of this forum.

Here is an article that appeared in “This Rock” and the link is on this site…its a good read, will take a few minutes, but it comes to a rather concise conclusion on the subject:
catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9711fea1.asp

Peace!

 

[guanophore]

I do believe you are correct!

What I see his actions as being are as this: :banghead: :hypno: :banghead: “ad infinitum”…

His biggest problem is that he has failed on all counts. His opinions, taken singly…only amount to “an opinion”…and an opinion not 100% supported by incontrovertible facts…is merely “an opinion”… (Now…picture Bugs Bunny saying "Th…Th…Th…That’s all folks!)

Join with me in prayer for him, and for all those whom he represents, which are many. He is the main incentive for me becoming a prayer warrior on CAF,and this has been a great Apostolate for me.

His role is make the Truth shine more purely:

1 Cor 11:19
19 Indeed, there have to be factions among you, for only so will it become clear who among you are genuine.

Factiousness also has a role in the Kingdom, and in bringing this divisiveness here to CAF, the outcome is that the Truth may shine forth as even more genuine.

 

[RobHom]

I always thought that was Porky Pig …

You are correct…I was wrong…

I guess I just had a mental picture of “Bugs” leaning on a tree munching a carrot and saying "Th…Th…Th…That’s all folks!

Welllll now…that just goes to show "I’m not perfect!