I think ALL Christians Can Unite On This!

[someguy14]

Matthew 6: 9 thru 13
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come . Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Luke 11: 1 thru 4
1 And it came to pass , that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased , one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray , as John also taught his disciples.
2 And he said unto them, When ye pray , say , Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come . Thy will be done , as in heaven, so in earth.
3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

 

[PRmerger]

I think a good exercise for all of you would be to read the false and spurious Scriptures and try to figure out why they are not in the Bible.

This is a good point, schaick.

See this list of early Christian texts.

The ONLY reason you know that the Odes of Solomon are false and spurious is because…

wait for it…

wait for it…

the Universal Catholic Church told you this!

So each and every time you talk about the false and spurious “Scriptures” you are, again, giving tacit approval to the authority of the CC. NOT to Scripture.

 

[CopticChristian]

Peter was never a pope, recognized as a pope and the offic of pope did not exist until some time later.

You too are missing a step. How did the Church know? Definition of Church- all of us called out to be Christians.

Hebrews 2
3…This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

The Gospel message was written well before the Jesus’ time -in the Old Testament Scripture that the Jews considered Scripture.

I think a good exercise for all of you would be to read the false and spurious Scriptures and try to figure out why they are not in the Bible.

The Church was always there, the mystery hidden for all ages until it was revealed, Peter was the leader…later the name Pope was attached to the leader…you are correct Peter probably did not know he was the Pope or that this label would be applied to the leader…

Lightning as we know it existed and was later described and after the kite and all we learned we know this phenomenom as lightning…who knows what cavemen called it…it was what it was…naming it lightning does not change what it was then or today…lightning is lightning…Peter was the first among many and today those people are called Popes…they are what they are…it is OK it is a mystery that has not yet been revealed to you…wait.

 

[CopticChristian]

Peter was never a pope, recognized as a pope and the offic of pope did not exist until some time later.

You too are missing a step. How did the Church know? Definition of Church- all of us called out to be Christians.

Hebrews 2
3…This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

The Gospel message was written well before the Jesus’ time -in the Old Testament Scripture that the Jews considered Scripture.

I think a good exercise for all of you would be to read the false and spurious Scriptures and try to figure out why they are not in the Bible./QUOTE]

I think a good exercise for you would be to exercise judgement. I would bet that most of the people in this forum not only know of, have read, but have copies of the spurious Scriptures including the Protestants Bibles that I consider Spurious…

Lets see I have copies of the 1611 King James, the Geneva first Bible With Calvinist footnotes, I have the Scofield…foot notes to teach Dispensationalism…I have all the available writings that were thrown out…and not included in Scripture.

Your statement is insulting and suggests that this is something that you believe made a difference for you…I could say I think a good exercise for you would be to read the early Councils of the Church however a better proposition would be to ask a question…

Have you heard of the Councils of the Church that declared the canon of the Bible of today as we know it…some are aware and others are not. Were you aware of these councils…?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

schaick;8464945]Peter was never a pope, recognized as a pope and the offic of pope did not exist until some time later

.

Apostolic succession began when Peter called for an apostolic replacement for Judas. The deacon Matthias was chosen, prayed and layed apostolic hands over him. This apostolic biblical practice has never left the Catholic church and is still practiced today to ordain bishops, priests and deacons these past 2000 years “unbroken in the Petrine see”.

Peter calls Jesus the “overseer”= Episcopate which later becomes the title for apostolic successors “Bishop”. The Popes since Peter and Paul with unbroken apostolic succession have always been the “Bishops of Rome”.

First there is Jesus who called disciples who later ordained only 12 to be apostles = to be sent. After the apostles came their apostolic successors as “Bishops and Patriarchs”.

The point you miss here is that because the bishop of Rome apostolic successor to Peter later recieves the title Pappa = Pope never disqulaifies this unbroken succession from the apostles to today’s Pope = bishop of Rome.

Jesus did not appoint priests and bishops and deacons, Jesus gave the power and authority for the apostles to shepherd His flock with bishops, priests and deacons. The Pope is still the “bishop” of Rome but is called Pope because he is the true apostolic successor to Peter, whom Jesus built His church upon and gave Peter himself the keys to the kingdom with the power and authority to bind and loose on earth.

You too are missing a step. How did the Church know? Definition of Church- all of us called out to be Christians.

**

The Church knew because, John 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of (his) disciples that are not written in this book. 31 But these are written that you may come to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God…

What Jesus revealed to His Church, the Church wrote down some of the revelations so that you can come to believe and also handed down Orally Sacred Traditions still practiced in the Catholic church today. The Catholic church historically proved to carry the cross of martyrdom freely and joyfully, are you able to carry such a cross without the Church?

Biblical definition of the Church = Ephesians 4:4 **One **body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; **one **Lord, one faith, one baptism; **one God **and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Ephesians 2: 22 And he put all things beneath his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way. 3:21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

Here is an early witness account to what the apostles of Jesus handed down to the Catholic Church.

St. Cyprian of Carthage, Letter of Cyprian to All His People 43 (40), 5, AD 251.

“They who have not peace themselves now offer peace to others. They who have withdrawn from the Church promise to lead back and to recall the lapsed to the Church. There is one God and one Christ, and one Church, and one Chair founded on Peter by the word of the Lord. It is not possible to set up another altar or for there to be another priesthood besides that one altar and that one priesthood. Whoever has gathered elsewhere is scattering.”

cont’**

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

cont;

Hebrews 2;3…This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will

.

Jesus proclaimed “the kingdom of God is at hand,” Those who heard Him (apostles) “Confirmed others” apostolic successors in the bishops.

Paul is writing to the Hebrews that Peter (and the apostles) who heard Jesus personally announce the kingdom of God regarding salvation, Confirmed Paul and his disciples teachings. Paul went to see only Peter and another disciple with him after his conversion into the body of Christ which Saul persecuted the Church.

Peter who heard Jesus, confirmed Paul in the teachings of Jesus, God confirmed this to Paul and the Church by signs and wonders of miracles witnessed from Pauls and the other apostles teachings. This is different from one being “baptized” into the body of Christ, after baptism comes the sacrament of confirmation.

When “many are called but few are chosen” = Jesus.

The Gospel message was written well before the Jesus’ time -in the Old Testament Scripture that the Jews considered Scripture.

Correction; The Gospel message was revealed to Adam, Noah, Abraham in the heavenly stars. This message was not written, it was handed down Orally first. Moses begins to record the sacred Oral Traditions and the new revelations of the Law.

The Jews to this date cannot confirm when they canonized their bible books. All they confrim from the second century is that they removed 7 books from the Septuagint (Hebrew to Greek translation), to discredit Jesus as false prophet because Jesus and His apostles quoted from these 7 books of the Greek translated books.

**St.Augustine a “Bishop of Hippo Africa” puts the old testament and new testament this way. “The New Testament is hidden in the Old Testament and the Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament”.

Your right! A Catholic bishop said it first as you stated that, “the gospel message was written well before the time of Jesus time in the Old Testament”.**

I think a good exercise for all of you would be to read the false and spurious Scriptures and try to figure out why they are not in the Bible.

Ok I have read many of these works and possess some of them. The reason they did not meet the canon (measuring rod) standard of scripture is because the Catholic church revealed they did not meet the scrutiny of the Canons. Regarding the New Tesatment cannons. One they have prove these were used in the liturgies since apostolic times. Two these new testament writings had to have been witnessed and authenticated by an apostle. Three these books must hold to and never conflict with the revelations of Jesus and His teachings. Four these books had to prove to be in circulation during apostolic times, to name a few of the Catholic Church’s cannon = measuring rod for a book or letter to meet this cannon.

If you are referencing the 7 old testament books from the Old Testament which Protestants and 2nd century anit-christ Jews removed them from their cannon, deals with their hebrew counter parts were not found until 1947. The Catholic church cannonized them because Jesus and His apostles quoted these teachings and texts.

But are we not getting off topic here

 

[LUV4ALL]

If you agree that Jesus Christ was a great person, would you think that his great qualities were of more use to God dead or alive? If Jesus was such a great person, why could he not have escaped the city of Jerusalem and carried on like a true messiah and take his message to the rest of the world towards the east? The point Im trying to make is that No Jesus Christ is not dead contrary to popular belief and that he was saved by God in such miracolous fashion that he lived the rest of his life travelling east. The proof is in your bible the proof is in the Quran, the proof is in ancient Buddhist texts, the proof is in numerous other texts, the proof is in the archealogoical aspect of the migration of Jesus eastwards, the proof is in his tomb which has been discovered and the proof is in the footprints in clay with the indents in sucha positon to that it is proof of a singular nail that was driven through it.

Yes my points may seem outlandish, devoid of much sense to a person that has been taught and believed otherwise. Yes my belief shatters the very foundation of Christianity. But my beliefs about the real story of Jesus Christ is rooted in reality, rooted in actuality and is so powerful yet simple that it may cause a christian to have their mind overloaded. Does this mean that Christianity is a sham and that it is simply a waste of time to follow Christianity. NO in no way does this descredit the attempt at a good living that Christianity promotes. Christians and Muslims actually have a lot more in common than not. Clearly a better attempt at trying to understand Islam or the intent to want to understand islam ina non bias manner would help you in your quest for the truth. No Jesus did not die and ascend to heavan in a physical manner, and no he is not hanging up there waiting to one day come back down. He was a prophet, a messenger a messiah and a man. he was Son of Man, he was Son of God in its spiritual connotations. God loved him so much that he let him live. And everything I mention here I will back up and would like to offer as much value as I can. I would lastly mention that my Islamic beliefs on Christ is not shared by the majority of Islam but is of a minority sect. Yes, Muslims and Christians feel Gods presence and pray to him in similar fashion, our feelings about God are mutual but God is an entity that does not depend upon a Son nor a Father in any mortal form. That is not necessary for a person to live a pious life and do good deeds and offer value in this life. There is much to learn about Islam and the values it shares with the Christian faith.

 

[Saint_Gabriel]

If you agree that Jesus Christ was a great person, would you think that his great qualities were of more use to God dead or alive? If Jesus was such a great person, why could he not have escaped the city of Jerusalem and carried on like a true messiah and take his message to the rest of the world towards the east? The point Im trying to make is that No Jesus Christ is not dead contrary to popular belief and that he was saved by God in such miracolous fashion that he lived the rest of his life travelling east. The proof is in your bible the proof is in the Quran, the proof is in ancient Buddhist texts, the proof is in numerous other texts, the proof is in the archealogoical aspect of the migration of Jesus eastwards, the proof is in his tomb which has been discovered and the proof is in the footprints in clay with the indents in sucha positon to that it is proof of a singular nail that was driven through it.

Yes my points may seem outlandish, devoid of much sense to a person that has been taught and believed otherwise. Yes my belief shatters the very foundation of Christianity. But my beliefs about the real story of Jesus Christ is rooted in reality, rooted in actuality and is so powerful yet simple that it may cause a christian to have their mind overloaded. Does this mean that Christianity is a sham and that it is simply a waste of time to follow Christianity. NO in no way does this descredit the attempt at a good living that Christianity promotes. Christians and Muslims actually have a lot more in common than not. Clearly a better attempt at trying to understand Islam or the intent to want to understand islam ina non bias manner would help you in your quest for the truth. No Jesus did not die and ascend to heavan in a physical manner, and no he is not hanging up there waiting to one day come back down. He was a prophet, a messenger a messiah and a man. he was Son of Man, he was Son of God in its spiritual connotations. God loved him so much that he let him live. And everything I mention here I will back up and would like to offer as much value as I can. I would lastly mention that my Islamic beliefs on Christ is not shared by the majority of Islam but is of a minority sect. Yes, Muslims and Christians feel Gods presence and pray to him in similar fashion, our feelings about God are mutual but God is an entity that does not depend upon a Son nor a Father in any mortal form. That is not necessary for a person to live a pious life and do good deeds and offer value in this life. There is much to learn about Islam and the values it shares with the Christian faith.

What a strange and untrue post from a Ahmadiyya sect member.

There is no prove of Jesus not dying on the cross rather the opposite. There are several Roman, Jewish and early Christians sources who confirm this.

Even Islam who was found 650 years after Christianity acknowledges that Jesus did not die a natural death.

So you are basically telling me that you renounce all this and chose to belive in a heretic that claimed to have seen the light in the last half of the 19th century?

That is like believing all the Christian sects that have appeared in the last 200-250 years, especially in USA (Jehovah’s Witnesses etc.)

 

[schaick]

schaick;8464945:

Peter was never a pope, recognized as a pope and the offic of pope did not exist until some time later.

You too are missing a step. How did the Church know? Definition of Church- all of us called out to be Christians.

Hebrews 2

3…This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

The Gospel message was written well before the Jesus’ time -in the Old Testament Scripture that the Jews considered Scripture.

I think a good exercise for all of you would be to read the false and spurious Scriptures and try to figure out why they are not in the Bible./QUOTE]

I think a good exercise for you would be to exercise judgement. I would bet that most of the people in this forum not only know of, have read, but have copies of the spurious Scriptures including the Protestants Bibles that I consider Spurious…

Lets see I have copies of the 1611 King James, the Geneva first Bible With Calvinist footnotes, I have the Scofield…foot notes to teach Dispensationalism…I have all the available writings that were thrown out…and not included in Scripture.

Your statement is insulting and suggests that this is something that you believe made a difference for you…I could say I think a good exercise for you would be to read the early Councils of the Church however a better proposition would be to ask a question…

Have you heard of the Councils of the Church that declared the canon of the Bible of today as we know it…some are aware and others are not. Were you aware of these councils…?

And you have all been insulting to me. As if I have no mind or reason of my own to not know when something is or is not Scripture. GOD has shown us. Actually insulting to GOD too.

You make no sense how did the first person, institution, Councils of the Church whether catholic or christian know when a writing was from GOD? I have shown all of you, but you are all are so bent on trying to prove catholism that you can not see that they have used the very same criteria all chruistians use.

Tradition? Well how did that first person that started the tradition decide the writing was from GOD? The criteria I have mentioned.

 

[schaick]

If you agree that Jesus Christ was a great person, would you think that his great qualities were of more use to God dead or alive? If Jesus was such a great person, why could he not have escaped the city of Jerusalem and carried on like a true messiah and take his message to the rest of the world towards the east? The point Im trying to make is that No Jesus Christ is not dead contrary to popular belief and that he was saved by God in such miracolous fashion that he lived the rest of his life travelling east. The proof is in your bible the proof is in the Quran, the proof is in ancient Buddhist texts, the proof is in numerous other texts, the proof is in the archealogoical aspect of the migration of Jesus eastwards, the proof is in his tomb which has been discovered and the proof is in the footprints in clay with the indents in sucha positon to that it is proof of a singular nail that was driven through it.

…

All the Quran proves is that the Jews did not kill Jesus.

Why would GOD deceive precious Mary Jesus’ mother, the Diciples and all His followers? Why allow people to then see Jesus walking around after His resurrection only to further what allah considers a false religion-Christianity?

Allah is supposed to be a great schemer- looks like he goofed on this one.

There has been more then one person named Jesus.

We needs accounts of eye witnesses that saw the crucifixion and then followed Jesus on to India to prove this is what happened. Who did Jesus meet along the way? Did Jesus tell people that allah had faked His crucifixion? Did anyone see who made the questionable footprint? Did the Jesus of India perform any miracles?

You have to have enough proof of your statements to disprove that the Disciple saw Jesus ascend after His resurrection which by the way is what the Quran says:
4.158
YUSUFALI: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
PICKTHAL: But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

 

[CopticChristian]

CopticChristian;8465317:

And you have all been insulting to me. As if I have no mind or reason of my own to not know when something is or is not Scripture. GOD has shown us.

Actually insulting to GOD too.

You make no sense how did the first person, institution, Councils of the Church whether catholic or christian know when a writing was from GOD? I have shown all of you, but you are all are so bent on trying to prove catholism that you can not see that they have used the very same criteria all chruistians use.

Tradition? Well how did that first person that started the tradition decide the writing was from GOD? The criteria I have mentioned.

So tell me how it is that you know something is or is not Scripture and how God has shown you. I am waiting. Perhaps there is something I missed in your explanation.

 

[LUV4ALL]

I am here to discuss the evidence of Jesus having travelled eastwards. It is in our best interest to leave out such brass statements as ALlah goofed up or calling me Ahmadi founder a heretic. Have some respect, if you are truly of the christian faith than treat me with teh respect you would like for yourself. Attacking something you dont understand is quite childish IMHO.

Anyways, explain to me what reason God would have had for ending jesus life on earth prematurely. What purpose would Jesus serve physically in heavan. And how woudl jesus satisfy his phyiscal human body needs in heaven.

Jesus was too important a prophet to have ended his journey at the hands of the jews. Nowhere does the Quran say that jesus died on the cross but in fact there is mention in the Quran/hadtih of the death fo all prophets before Mohammad.

In terms of scientific and physical logic, no man can live that long in a human body. SO you are alienating your scientific freinds on that one.

And there are many proofs of Jesus having met several persons on his journey eastwards I will provide you with detailed evidence in the next post.

 

[CopticChristian]

If you agree that Jesus Christ was a great person, would you think that his great qualities were of more use to God dead or alive? If Jesus was such a great person, why could he not have escaped the city of Jerusalem and carried on like a true messiah and take his message to the rest of the world towards the east? The point Im trying to make is that No Jesus Christ is not dead contrary to popular belief and that he was saved by God in such miracolous fashion that he lived the rest of his life travelling east. The proof is in your bible the proof is in the Quran, the proof is in ancient Buddhist texts, the proof is in numerous other texts, the proof is in the archealogoical aspect of the migration of Jesus eastwards, the proof is in his tomb which has been discovered and the proof is in the footprints in clay with the indents in sucha positon to that it is proof of a singular nail that was driven through it.

Yes my points may seem outlandish, devoid of much sense to a person that has been taught and believed otherwise. Yes my belief shatters the very foundation of Christianity. But my beliefs about the real story of Jesus Christ is rooted in reality, rooted in actuality and is so powerful yet simple that it may cause a christian to have their mind overloaded. Does this mean that Christianity is a sham and that it is simply a waste of time to follow Christianity. NO in no way does this descredit the attempt at a good living that Christianity promotes. Christians and Muslims actually have a lot more in common than not. Clearly a better attempt at trying to understand Islam or the intent to want to understand islam ina non bias manner would help you in your quest for the truth. No Jesus did not die and ascend to heavan in a physical manner, and no he is not hanging up there waiting to one day come back down. He was a prophet, a messenger a messiah and a man. he was Son of Man, he was Son of God in its spiritual connotations. God loved him so much that he let him live. And everything I mention here I will back up and would like to offer as much value as I can. I would lastly mention that my Islamic beliefs on Christ is not shared by the majority of Islam but is of a minority sect. Yes, Muslims and Christians feel Gods presence and pray to him in similar fashion, our feelings about God are mutual but God is an entity that does not depend upon a Son nor a Father in any mortal form. That is not necessary for a person to live a pious life and do good deeds and offer value in this life. There is much to learn about Islam and the values it shares with the Christian faith.

Wow. Why did it take such a long time to get this shattering information. Do you have a website with this information, a book with this information, a teacher that might give more information?

 

[CopticChristian]

I am here to discuss the evidence of Jesus having travelled eastwards. It is in our best interest to leave out such brass statements as ALlah goofed up or calling me Ahmadi founder a heretic. Have some respect, if you are truly of the christian faith than treat me with teh respect you would like for yourself. Attacking something you dont understand is quite childish IMHO.

Anyways, explain to me what reason God would have had for ending jesus life on earth prematurely. What purpose would Jesus serve physically in heavan. And how woudl jesus satisfy his phyiscal human body needs in heaven.

Jesus was too important a prophet to have ended his journey at the hands of the jews. Nowhere does the Quran say that jesus died on the cross but in fact there is mention in the Quran/hadtih of the death fo all prophets before Mohammad.
In terms of scientific and physical logic, no man can live that long in a human body. SO you are alienating your scientific freinds on that one.

And there are many proofs of Jesus having met several persons on his journey eastwards I will provide you with detailed evidence in the next post.

You might want to drive around any city and see these things called crosses on buildings, we call Churches. These guys think and believe that Jesus died on a Cross. You may want to read some other books. I have this handbook, manual, guidebook, testament…some guys call it a Bible…you can find them all over the place. If you stay in some Hotels they actually have them there for free…anyway this book has a couple of different stories about Jesus dying on a cross…there are at least 4 chapters devoted to that and this guy…Paul…Arab Christians call him Boulos (بولس ), he has all kinds of letters he wrote that are in this book and he says…I am not kidding…that Jesus died on a Cross and he even says…now get this…the folly of the cross…what in the world. Anyway there are lots of other writings in this book and others that do not coincide with what you say…I kind of think this guy Jesus died on a cross and that is why all those crosses are on buildings…but it is OK…because he resurrected himself and then ascended to heaven…now I do not know if Mohammed is with Him or not…who can say?

 

[LUV4ALL]

COptic Christian I am prepared to answer all of the questions you have raised. But as a sidenote no body was aware of this information because nobody was loooking for it because nobody was supposed to believe that it could have happaned otherwise than what christianity has claimed.

SO of course all this information was uncovered when several people got out of groupthink and did their own research and through years of research found out what really happend because all the evidence and clues where there, just needed someone to have been looking for it to actually find it.

For example if i lose my phone and dont look for it i will never find it. Some can believe i never had a phone to begin with and convince others of such. If i go looking for my phone however and find it then however can others believe that I indeed did have a phone to begin with and that im not crazy. Of course this is jsut a rhetorical situation I have made up on the spot but In relation to your questions I will provide you with detailed information possibly tomorrow because i have to go in to work.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

schaick;8468522]
You make no sense how did the first person, institution, Councils of the Church whether catholic or christian know when a writing was from GOD? I have shown all of you, but you are all are so bent on trying to prove catholism that you can not see that they have used the very same criteria all chruistians use.

Tradition? Well how did that first person that started the tradition decide the writing was from GOD? The criteria I have mentioned.

I have to agree with Coptic, maybe we missed something here; you have not revealed here how you believe a Christian knows a writing comes from God? From your posts unless I missed one? only record a scripture which you appear to misinterpret out of context to mean something other than what is revealed from Paul’s letter to the Hebrews.

Can you repeat how you know a writing is God breathed again?

Catholics can prove the cannon of the bible from historical and eyewitness accounts supported and confirmed by the liturgical prayers and practices from antiquity recorded in both the gospels and epistles of the new testament.

What proof do you have that supports your position? Do you have a saint to support your faith and position from post and pre- apostolic age?

Your task appears difficult because, you appear to use the same scriptures the Catholic church authenticated (cannonized) by the Holy Spirit to be inspired of God.

Secondly Tradition is the scriptures living in the body of Christ; No Christian cannot have sacred scripture without sacred Tradition. Missing one of these loses the full deposit of the Christian faith Jesus revealed to His Church.

2Thessalonians 2:14 To this end **he has (also) called you through our gospel **to possess the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brothers, **stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. **

2Thess.3:6 We instruct you, brothers, in the name of (our) Lord Jesus Christ,to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us.

1Corinthians11:1 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. 2 I praise you because **you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you. **

Can you please clarify and prove your position? Do you practice any of the Apostolic Traditions revealed in the scriptures I posted for you?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

LUV4ALL;8469315]COptic Christian I am prepared to answer all of the questions you have raised. But as a sidenote no body was aware of this information because nobody was loooking for it because nobody was supposed to believe that it could have happaned otherwise than what christianity has claimed.

Hello LUV4ALL The topic of the thread "I think ALL Christians Can Unite On This! It appears we are beginning to venture off topic. Can you relate your subject matter to the main topic?

Question? You claim to have proof? Does your proof come from first century accounts and eyewitnesses who were there when Jesus walked the earth, died, raised from the dead and ascended into heaven? The first century Roman history, the Jewish history and Christian history record eyewitnesses accounts to the passion, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

If your proof comes after Islam is born 800-+ years later, with no eye witness accounts then it becomes debatable and pure speculation. Maybe you should start another thread and bring on your proof, I would be happy to oblige you.

For the record; I a Catholic Christian read your Quran. I am sorry to report but I will never serve a god who teaches and reveals to humanity from a self proclaimed prophet that “Lie-ing and deception” is a good virtue to practice. Do you want the proof from your Quran? My God does not need to decieve or lie for my God is “Truth”.

Peace be with you

 

[LUV4ALL]

Yes I have more proof than you could digest. I will return tomorrow, Im off to work. I myself am a logical man that have faith but cannot beleive in fantasy.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Yes I have more proof than you could digest. I will return tomorrow, Im off to work. I myself am a logical man that have faith but cannot beleive in fantasy.

Have a great day:thumbsup: I pray reason and faith win the day. Truth is established by two eye-witnesses.

When you return can you give a definition of faith? and your definition of logic? I would’nt want to mistinterpret your faith as a fantasy of one man hearing from God without no witnesses, to pre-announce your faith and confirm your faith. Then we can reason them together on the subject.

Peace be with you

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I have to agree with Coptic, maybe we missed something here; you have not revealed here how you believe a Christian knows a writing comes from God? From your posts unless I missed one? only record a scripture which you appear to misinterpret out of context to mean something other than what is revealed from Paul’s letter to the Hebrews.

Can you repeat how you know a writing is God breathed again?

Catholics can prove the cannon of the bible from historical and eyewitness accounts supported and confirmed by the liturgical prayers and practices from antiquity recorded in both the gospels and epistles of the new testament.

What proof do you have that supports your position? Do you have a saint to support your faith and position from post and pre- apostolic age?

Your task appears difficult because, you appear to use the same scriptures the Catholic church authenticated (cannonized) by the Holy Spirit to be inspired of God.

Secondly Tradition is the scriptures living in the body of Christ; No Christian cannot have sacred scripture without sacred Tradition. Missing one of these loses the full deposit of the Christian faith Jesus revealed to His Church.

2Thessalonians 2:14 To this end **he has (also) called you through our gospel **to possess the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brothers, **stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. **

2Thess.3:6 We instruct you, brothers, in the name of (our) Lord Jesus Christ,to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us.

1Corinthians11:1 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. 2 I praise you because **you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you. **

Can you please clarify and prove your position? Do you practice any of the Apostolic Traditions revealed in the scriptures I posted for you?

Hello any body there?