I think I found a situation where abortion is necessary to save the mother's life

[mfinnegan]

Abortion is cruel and painful to the baby… delivery is not even if the baby is too young to live very long.

I had sever preeclampsia the docs put me on magnesium for a while which brought my blood pressure down a little bit. Then temporarily took me off of it to quickly deliver my baby and then immediately put me back on it. Everyone survived and was healthy.

 

[Calliso]

The burden is on YOU to show that Jesus would sanction murder. I am sorry for the fact that you are not Catholic; perhaps if you were, you would know/realize that murder is NEVER justified, no matter how much one may rationalize it.

I donlt think Jesus would ever sanction murder…but then the question is would he consider terminating a pregnancy to save a mother’s life murder? Assuming we are talking about a case where both can not be saved? Or a case of the baby will not live no matter what but the mother;s only chance is terminating the pregnancy? But I donlt know what Jesus would want a woman to do in that situation.

 

[mfinnegan]

I donlt think Jesus would ever sanction murder…but then the question is would he consider terminating a pregnancy to save a mother’s life murder? Assuming we are talking about a case where both can not be saved? Or a case of the baby will not live no matter what but the mother;s only chance is terminating the pregnancy? But I donlt know what Jesus would want a woman to do in that situation.

The situation does not exist. Do you really think that a woman could endure an abortion but not endure delivery. Either way the baby comes out…dead or alive.

 

[Timothysis]

I donlt think Jesus would ever sanction murder…but then the question is would he consider terminating a pregnancy to save a mother’s life murder? Assuming we are talking about a case where both can not be saved? Or a case of the baby will not live no matter what but the mother;s only chance is terminating the pregnancy? But I donlt know what Jesus would want a woman to do in that situation.

Please, don’t try to rationalize it. We all know what abortion is; murder.

What would Jesus want a woman to do in that situation? Endure and suffer, if that is what is to come. It would be a hard sell to Jesus to try and rationalize willful murder when he let Himself be put to death for the sake of us.

 

[Calliso]

Please, don’t try to rationalize it. We all know what abortion is; murder.

What would Jesus want a woman to do in that situation? Endure and suffer, if that is what is to come. It would be a hard sell to Jesus to try and rationalize willful murder when he let Himself be put to death for the sake of us.

See what gets me about the just let the woman die argument is not only is it cruel…and thoughtless and pointless…I am willing to be that 99% of the prolifers that preach that nonsence…well if they or someone close to them was ever in that situation where they had to make a life or death decision…well lets just say they suddenly might not be so willing to die. It is easier to condemn some woman you donlt know to die. But when it;s you or your wife or your sister or even just a friend in that situation…well lets just say it;s different.

 

[Timothysis]

See what gets me about the just let the woman die argument is not only is it cruel…and thoughtless and pointless…I am willing to be that 99% of the prolifers that preach that nonsence…well if they or someone close to them was ever in that situation where they had to make a life or death decision…well lets just say they suddenly might not be so willing to die. It is easier to condemn some woman you donlt know to die. But when it;s you or your wife or your sister or even just a friend in that situation…well lets just say it;s different.

There comes a time in every one’s life when they need to stand up for what they believe is right. To murder your child in the womb to save the life of your wife is no different from letting your child starve to death so that others may live. You do not understand what it is you say. To knowingly commit an act that is against the Church’s teachings, biblical law and the teachings of Jesus is to place one’s soul in danger of eternal damnation. Either you live for Christ or you do not; the decision is yours to make. But there will be a day when Justice will be served and woe to those who turn their backs on Christ; it would be better for them had they never been born.

 

[mfinnegan]

See what gets me about the just let the woman die argument is not only is it cruel…and thoughtless and pointless…I am willing to be that 99% of the prolifers that preach that nonsence…well if they or someone close to them was ever in that situation where they had to make a life or death decision…well lets just say they suddenly might not be so willing to die. It is easier to condemn some woman you donlt know to die. But when it;s you or your wife or your sister or even just a friend in that situation…well lets just say it;s different.

Your argument is all emotional and not based in fact. Please tell me a situation in which a baby would need to be aborted.

 

[Calliso]

The situation does not exist. Do you really think that a woman could endure an abortion but not endure delivery. Either way the baby comes out…dead or alive.

How do you know this situation does not exist? I see a lot of assumptions by some prolifers on things like this… But how much research have you done? And I am willing to admit I need to do more research myself which I will start on tomorrow. Not to mention not all situtation where a pregnancy must be terminated happens right at delivery. What about etopic pregnancies. Also interesting enough when doing research on tilted uterus’s and the potential risks. Apparently there is a chance fortunately very small that if the uterus doesn;t untilt during a pregnancy that you will potentially be forced to terminate the pregnancy before the baby is viable. And there is probably more examples too but those are just examples I could remember right now.

 

[Timothysis]

See what gets me about the just let the woman die argument is not only is it cruel…and thoughtless and pointless…I am willing to be that 99% of the prolifers that preach that nonsence…well if they or someone close to them was ever in that situation where they had to make a life or death decision…well lets just say they suddenly might not be so willing to die. It is easier to condemn some woman you donlt know to die. But when it;s you or your wife or your sister or even just a friend in that situation…well lets just say it;s different.

Furthermore, no one said to “just let the woman die.” Every thing possible to provide for the mother should be done. It is a fallacy to argue “it’s the baby or the mother.” It does not happen like that and is an argument used by those to justify abortion.

 

[mfinnegan]

How do you know this situation does not exist? I see a lot of assumptions by some prolifers on things like this… But how much research have you done? And I am willing to admit I need to do more research myself which I will start on tomorrow. Not to mention not all situtation where a pregnancy must be terminated happens right at delivery. What about etopic pregnancies. Also interesting enough when doing research on tilted uterus’s and the potential risks. Apparently there is a chance fortunately very small that if the uterus doesn;t untilt during a pregnancy that you will potentially be forced to terminate the pregnancy before the baby is viable. And there is probably more examples too but those are just examples I could remember right now.

Wow…so your not sure if a situation exists but your still promoting abortion. Good luck with your research. But take a moment to exam your motives. Your are seeking reasons to justify killing a baby. Are you hoping to find examples that would warrant an abortion?

 

[HouseArrest]

See what gets me about the just let the woman die argument is not only is it cruel…and thoughtless and pointless…I am willing to be that 99% of the prolifers that preach that nonsence…well if they or someone close to them was ever in that situation where they had to make a life or death decision…well lets just say they suddenly might not be so willing to die. It is easier to condemn some woman you donlt know to die. But when it;s you or your wife or your sister or even just a friend in that situation…well lets just say it;s different.

What I don’t understand is this: given the same mother and child out for a walk in the park with a crazy gunman shooting wildly hitting everything in his path - would the mother not throw herself on top of the child to protect him? Most likely the mother will die, and maybe the baby, too. Would anyone think her odd for doing that?

And could you imagine her pushing the stroller toward him and running the other way? What’s the difference between that and an abortion? Someone has done a number on the women of our society. They’ve conviced many to kill their own children!

 

[Drawmack]

The burden is on YOU to show that Jesus would sanction murder. I am sorry for the fact that you are not Catholic; perhaps if you were, you would know/realize that murder is NEVER justified, no matter how much one may rationalize it.

Please stop pontificating on Catholic teachings that are not Catholic teachings. While abortion is never justified the Church teaches that there may be some, though very rare, cases where the death penalty is justified. So therefore, the Church does not teach that murder is never justified.

Your sentiment is correct, but your words are wrong.

 

[shannyk]

I posted about this on another thread last night, my 17 yr old cousin is hospitalized with HELLP as we speak, she’s 24 weeks. Her BP is being controlled right now but it was very high when she was first admitted and she had seizures. It’s under control now, but she’ll remain hospitalized and likely not make it full term, they are just going week by week hoping and praying. When and if the time comes she has to deliver she’ll have a C section and any and all care that can be given to the baby will be.

A mom with full blown HELLP is going to be under close CLOSE medical supervision if not hospitalized for the duration of pregnancy. These patients are carefully monitored. If BP is creeping up they will section before it gets too high to operate.

It is a risky situation and not all babies make it in the severe cases. I had a friend who had HELLP her first pregnancy and ended up delivering at 30 weeks and baby Will dies 3 months later When I worked in NICU I did see a few HELLP babies and eclampsia babies and most of the time they did well.

i don’t’ see any weight to this argument that abortion is a safer option.

 

[Timothysis]

Please stop pontificating on Catholic teachings that are not Catholic teachings. While abortion is never justified the Church teaches that there may be some, though very rare, cases where the death penalty is justified. So therefore, the Church does not teach that murder is never justified.

Your sentiment is correct, but your words are wrong.

Actually, YOUR words are wrong. While the Church allows that the death penalty is justified in certain cases it has consistently taught that direct MURDER is never justified. To execute someone is to kill them; to destroy innocent life through abortion is murder.

To say “the Church does not teach that murder is never justified” is patently incorrect. I would suggest you research the difference between killing and murder.

 

[Drawmack]

Actually, YOUR words are wrong. While the Church allows that the death penalty is justified in certain cases it has consistently taught that direct MURDER is never justified. To execute someone is to kill them; to destroy innocent life through abortion is murder.

To say “the Church does not teach that murder is never justified” is patently incorrect. I would suggest you research the difference between killing and murder.

Well then, at best, your words are confusing.

 

[Baloo]

Just because abortion is needed to save a mother’s life does NOT mean that it is allowed by the Church. Have we not forgotten about the sacrifice of St. (forget her name at this moment) who said “If you can, save the baby first, then me.”? She sacrificed herself so that her baby may live, even though she could’ve gotten an abortion and her life would have been saved. We can always follow the Church’s laws on extraordinary care in these types of situations, but abortion is NEVER justified, even in medical emergencies.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

See what gets me about the just let the woman die argument is not only is it cruel…and thoughtless and pointless…I am willing to be that 99% of the prolifers that preach that nonsence…well if they or someone close to them was ever in that situation where they had to make a life or death decision…well lets just say they suddenly might not be so willing to die. It is easier to condemn some woman you donlt know to die. But when it;s you or your wife or your sister or even just a friend in that situation…well lets just say it;s different.

Nonsense?

You seem to be making your pro-abortion position very clear. As for the rest of us, we are tired of being categorized as ‘you pro-lifers who support that [nonsense.]’

If you’re going to get out the tar and feathers for us at least also activate your spell-check.

 

[St_Francis]

Please stop pontificating on Catholic teachings that are not Catholic teachings. While abortion is never justified the Church teaches that there may be some, though very rare, cases where the death penalty is justified. So therefore, the Church does not teach that murder is never justified.

Your sentiment is correct, but your words are wrong.

The way you have put this is incorrect. When the state legitimately takes a life, ie, the death penalty, it is not murder.

This would be the correct way to put this: … the Church does not teach that *the taking of human life *is never justified.

Of course, then it doesn’t work in your context.

Another time when the taking of human life is legitimate is during war and in self-defense.

 

[St_Francis]

…But I have also heard of other situations where abortion can be necessary. I mean assuming you donlt want the mother to die. Sometimes it;s not so black and white. Sometimes it;s not as simple as try to save both sometimes it;s save one or the other…or even you save the mother…or you let both die. Fortunately such situations are fairly rare.

While it may be that there are situations in which an abortion would save a mother’s life, it is still totally wrong to kill the baby in order to save the mother’s life. It is indeed very sad when a mother dies, but it is wrong to save her by killing her unborn child.

 

[St_Francis]

I’m not a medical practitioner, but I would think that these days the number of times when an abortion was the only possible way to save a mother’s life would be very rare. However I think that from time to time such situations would exist. It’s all very well pontificating about it on a web site, but if we were the doctor in such a situation, then we have a decision to make.

I had a very strong Catholic aunt, now deceased, who had been a palliative care nurse. At one time she was in charge of a young boy dying of cancer. He was very restless and in considerable pain. She knew that if she gave him more morphine, he would die. But eventually she did, not to kill him, but to relieve the pain. Sure enough a few minutes later he died.

She went to see the hospital chaplain as she was concerned. He asked her what her motive was in giving the extra morphine. Obviously it was to save the child from further stress. As such her motive was the prime factor. Likewise in saving a woman’s life - if an abortion is the only possible solution (rare as I said), what is the motive for doing so?

The difference is that the two acts are different. Giving painkiller to a person is not an act which in and of itself kills. It is actually an act of mercy.

However, abortion is in and of itself an act which kills; the *intent *of the action is killing the unborn child.

When you aunt gave the child the amount of painkiller he needed to alleviate his pain, she did so. The fact that the child died was what you might call a side-effect of the action she took. Had she given him more painkiller than he needed, in order that he would die, that would have been killing him.

Your aunt’s action falls under the principle of double-effect. it is wonderful that she had a good priest who understood that.