I think I may have ordered something from a heretical society

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I recently requested a free “God the Father Chaplet” from an association called the “Sons and Daughters of the Blessed Virgin”. I think that they may be heretical, because it claims that their founder recieved this chaplet from God himself. Now, there is a lot wrong with this, because God is pure spirit, and not in the form of a person. I contacted Ront Conte from Catholic Planet, he told be that they are not an approved society, but, now, I find out the Catholic Planet is not a good place to go for questions. Could someone please help me? I don’t know if they are recognized by the church or not, and should I throw out/burn or use the chaplet.

Help??? Please???
 
And, also, I did not know about the society at the time I requested it.
 
And, also, I did not know about the society at the time I requested it.
I can find almost nothing about this group. WHOIS indicates their website is registered to a Martin Lopez, who may or may not be the same as the “Br. Mariamartin de la Cruz” (“Mary-Martin of the Cross”) of this society. My suggestion, since this guy is in Munds Park, AZ, is tomorrow call the Diocese of Phoenix (602-354-2000) and ask if they’ve ever heard of him. Please post whatever you find out here, since this is going to be a top Google result for the name of this group.
 
I recently requested a free “God the Father Chaplet” from an association called the “Sons and Daughters of the Blessed Virgin”. I think that they may be heretical, because it claims that their founder recieved this chaplet from God himself. Now, there is a lot wrong with this, because God is pure spirit, and not in the form of a person. I contacted Ront Conte from Catholic Planet, he told be that they are not an approved society, but, now, I find out the Catholic Planet is not a good place to go for questions. Could someone please help me? I don’t know if they are recognized by the church or not, and should I throw out/burn or use the chaplet.

Help??? Please???
I would bet you are right although Moses received the 10 commandments from God so there is a precedent for such an occurrence.
 
I can find almost nothing about this group. WHOIS indicates their website is registered to a Martin Lopez, who may or may not be the same as the “Br. Mariamartin de la Cruz” (“Mary-Martin of the Cross”) of this society. My suggestion, since this guy is in Munds Park, AZ, is tomorrow call the Diocese of Phoenix (602-354-2000) and ask if they’ve ever heard of him. Please post whatever you find out here, since this is going to be a top Google result for the name of this group.
Oh, and this Br. Mariamartin de la Cruz, he contacted me asking me of my address (as when I did not put in my address when requesting it, for it could have been spam)! I will contact the Diocese,
 
I recently requested a free “God the Father Chaplet” from an association called the “Sons and Daughters of the Blessed Virgin”. I think that they may be heretical, because it claims that their founder recieved this chaplet from God himself. Now, there is a lot wrong with this, because God is pure spirit, and not in the form of a person. I contacted Ront Conte from Catholic Planet, he told be that they are not an approved society, but, now, I find out the Catholic Planet is not a good place to go for questions. Could someone please help me? I don’t know if they are recognized by the church or not, and should I throw out/burn or use the chaplet.

Help??? Please???
At the end of the day, a prayer is a prayer. If the prayer invokes the grace of God and has no heretical content in it, it is up to you whether to use it. Lord knows we have sung “Turn Turn Turn”, “Blowin’ in the Wind”, and “Amazing Grace” at Mass for years and nobody was concerned that they were written by heretics, atheists, or other non-Catholics, yet have been included as part of our sanctioned public prayer.

So since neither The Byrds or Bob Dylan are recognized by the church yet we use their songs as prayers, you will not be excommunicated for using this chaplet if the content is acceptable. I would only caution against relying on any indulgences that may be purported to be attached.
 
It is the content that matters. If there is nothing heretical on it, it is entirely fine.
 
I recently requested a free “God the Father Chaplet” from an association called the “Sons and Daughters of the Blessed Virgin”. I think that they may be heretical, because it claims that their founder recieved this chaplet from God himself. Now, there is a lot wrong with this, because God is pure spirit, and not in the form of a person. I contacted Ront Conte from Catholic Planet, he told be that they are not an approved society, but, now, I find out the Catholic Planet is not a good place to go for questions. Could someone please help me? I don’t know if they are recognized by the church or not, and should I throw out/burn or use the chaplet.

Help??? Please???
I went to their website and peroused it quickly.
sdbv.org ( you failed to include the link; this is probably it!)
They promote the St. Louis De Montfort ‘Consecration to Jesus through Mary’. --Good;

They also give away promotional material, but alongside of that they are soliciting donations for land and a chapel. --Not so good;

Frequently these website solicitations of money and donations that are not attributed to an established diocesean order or monastery, etc . Can be troublesome. Afterall who are these people?, how do you know they are not collecting money for a different purpose, to support themselves and buy expensive cars. Further, there is no public face or spokesperson to this website–only a listed name and P.O. Box ; Not Good!

I went to their links page:
sdbv.org/html/links.html

Very troublesome links. Red flags all over, RUN!
This site is promoting through their links page troublesome and clearly false mystics and their apparitions. Clearly not at all what I would expect
from a faithful group. The solicitations for land and a chapel are very troublesome also. Everything considered this thing smells and looks like a scam. Certainly these people are not 100% faithful and discerning people as evidence by the numerous bad links (mystics&apparitions) they are promoting.

You dont have to contact the diocese. Develop a nose; Keep your money free and clear from everything but what is clearly good. Try donating to CRS ( Catholic Relief Services crs.org/) , instead of trying to figure out who to give it to. crs.org/

I suggest buying,
amazon.com/True-Devotion-Blessed-Virgin/dp/1905574304/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276721076&sr=8-2

if your are interested in this devotion.
 
To the poster above me, I wish I had read what you said before I did contact the diocese.
I did contact them, and they very kindly told me that they are not associated with the Diocese, nor by the Church.
 
To the poster above me, I wish I had read what you said before I did contact the diocese.
I did contact them, and they very kindly told me that they are not associated with the Diocese, nor by the Church.
Good to know – there’s a difference between what you can “smell” from their webpage, and what you can confirm from the proper diocesan sources. Thanks for confirming it.
 
Hello and Peace of Jesus be with you

I am Brother Mariamartin de la Cruz SDBV, founder of the Sons and Daughters of the Blessed Virgin. I would like to offer clarification on some things and it is unfortunate that no one emailed me sooner to do so, as I became aware of this forum almost a year after its public posts.

Someone was concerned…
A heretic is defined as one who knowingly contradicts the Papacy and Church doctrines as the Pope defines them. http://www.hol.com/~mikesch/aquinas.htm And as there is neither heresy in the God the Father devotion, to which I assume you are referring, or the chaplet to God the Father, neither is there cause for fear of it. In addition, even if a heretical group promulgated, for example, the Divine Mercy Chaplet, it would not make the Divine Mercy Chaplet heretical or even suspect because a heretical group is promulgating it. Neither does a devotional prayer need to have approval in order to be prayed or promulgated, provided it is free from doctrinal error.

Nowhere on sdbv.org is it stated or even eluded to that we are the recipients of apparitions or messages. It is stated very clearly and with deliberate intent the origin of any quotes that we use as reference material. And in the God the Father section where there are more unknown ones, it is also stated that we are not affiliated with any of the visionaries or organizations that promote them in an official capacity. It is only that we have found them personally fruitful and promote them as such. http://www.sdbv.org/html/_father_of_all_mankind.html

Regarding the doctrinal purity of the God the Father Consecration Chaplet and devotion…
The Holy Octave of Consecration to God our Father and its Consecration Chaplet devotion were originally introduced by St. Andrews Productions https://www.saintandrew.com as a separate work from Seeing with the Eyes of the Soul, Barbara Centilli’s messages from God the Father. No longer does this kind of work need an imprimatur so it was not necessary that Dr. Petrisko acquire one, but the Foreward given in the Consecration book by Fr. Michael O’Carroll’s C.S.S.P. (Irish theologian, author of over 35 books and lecturer at Blackrock College in Dublin.) assures us that it is a “solidly constructed work”, in other words, it is biblically sound and free from doctrinal error.

As to the canonical status of SDBV…
As our current residence in Az. is not a permanent one (and throughout the community’s development we have mostly not been located in the Phoenix diocese), I have not yet approached the bishop and have no need to. Canon law requires foundings to approach a bishop at some point to acquire status, but not right away. We are in the preparatory stage of development. And at this stage, which is still a beginning level, there are not sufficient grounds to approach a bishop for canonical status yet. Bishops, in practice, want to see a pretty well established structure with quite a few members having lived the life they propose for themselves for a fairly long time before they will erect a founding as a public association, which is the next stage, and is the stage before becoming a religious institute. The guiding principle of foundings, as stated by Fr. Elio Gambari S.M.M., a priest who is the principle canon lawyer responsible for the canons regarding foundings in the revised code of 1983 and who also wrote Canonical Establishment of a Religious Institute: Process and Procedures, a book on foundings and who is considered the leading expert on the matter, is that new founding communities, as much as is possible, live the life they propose for themselves, e.g., including vows, until such time as they are ready to approach a Bishop. This necessitates and validates our seeking of alms and assistance to fulfill our mission and Charism, which was another concern stated on this thread. This is referred to on this page of our site. http://www.sdbv.org/html/new_movements.html
In addition, there is a comment from a forum on this very site; Catholic Community Forum, on foundings that clarifies this. It is the Aug 6, ’08 post from Cloisters. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=258864

Regarding the links we endorse…
It is too long to include here but among many of the links endorsed in the links section, among which are Vatican, Adoremus, EWTN etc, there are also one’s that some would consider controversial which are also free from doctrinal error. If needed there are clarifications and quotes from accredited sources. And further down on the same page, there are quotes from the Holy See, Pope John Paul II, the Catechism, and Dr. Mark Miravalle S.T.D. professor of theology at U. of Steubenville, on private revelation so that all who visit this page would have a correct understanding of private revelation according to the mind of the Church. http://sdbv.org/html/links.html

As for the Nature of God the Father…
Did He not manifest Himself in the burning bush and in other ways throughout the Old Testament though He is pure spirit? And have not angels appeared in human form although they too are pure spirit? Also, in the case of the church approved messages to Mother Eugenia Ravasio The Father Speaks to His Children, God the Father did appear to her as a man, so there is Church approved precedence. I’m sure this was not overlooked in the 10+ year of investigation by the local Bishop’s commission in order to conclude that it was entirely free from doctrinal error. Here is a link to the page where you can link to the book on our site in which the beginning of the book states this. http://sdbv.org/html/_father_of_all_mankind.html

Let us pray that the Holy Spirit unite us all in one heart, mind and faith and as children of one God and Father in the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Amen.

May God bless you and Mary keep you
Br. Mariamartin
 
To the poster above me, I wish I had read what you said before I did contact the diocese.
I did contact them, and they very kindly told me that they are not associated with the Diocese, nor by the Church.
I looked over the website , looked at all of the PDF newsletters.
Still troubling things present as noted in a previous post.

I’ll make it short:

(1) Br. MariaMartin De La Cruz promotes one or more of the more problematic(nothing supernatural found) but not condemned apparitions/messages. Why would he do this? re: Vassula Ryden
Cardinal Levada Congregation Doctrine of the Faith, Jan 25,2007, has stated that dissemination of these writing to the faithful by local Church officials can be made on a case by case prudential basis only and that Ryden prayer groups can not be attended by the faithful.
catholicplanet.com/apparitions/levada.jpg
catholicplanet.com/apparitions/pdf/Vassula-Ryden-Notification.pdf
catholicplanet.com/apparitions/pdf/Vassula-Ryden-Clarification.pdf

(2) Br. MariaMartin De La Cruz is an unknown entity, not apparently known by his local Bishop, nor is his picture or any of his other associate(s) present anywhere on the website or in the various newsletters.

From the website: sdbv.org/html/new_movements.html
(4) The new community has the option of making their intentions known to the Church (a Bishop), or to continue to grow organically in their Charism and in their particular expression of it. While it shows their desire to be submissive to the Church to approach a Bishop, it can be prudent to not do so.

This website presents a formidable obstacle to the ‘Smell Test’ and presents itself as nothing more than a website with a newsletter and a PO Box. On the other hand, assuming the newsletter contains new original material, they are well written and contain faithful material.
 
If purchasing things from heretical societies was intrinsically evil, then each time you bought a Coke or Nike swag you would be in danger of hell fire.

I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

Pax,
Tim
 
Boiling it all down:

What you have here is an unapproved order (if you want to call it that) basing itself and its philosophy on unapproved apparitions. What new unapproved apparition gets rolled into the program tomorrow or the next?

Perfect recipe for new postulants to be led astray.

buffalonews.com/city/article187708.ece
 
Boiling it all down:

What you have here is an unapproved order (if you want to call it that) basing itself and its philosophy on unapproved apparitions.
This is what all Catholics are trained to avoid!
 
In response to the RB2 post

Peace to you
  1. I would simply ask you to read all the information on this site by a priest theologian who was a part of the process of dialogue between Vassula and the CDF. web.me.com/hvidt/TLIG-CDF/Introduction.html It is his first hand account from the beginning and gives the full sequence of events. I would also ask you to read her clarifications for yourself as well that she submitted to the CDF in response to their questions. You can see for yourself there is no doctrinal error. tlig.org/en/testimonies/churchpos/cdf2005/grechanswr/
  2. I decided long ago to have the web site for the purpose of spreading Total Consecration and Consecration to the Father and not about self promotion. For me, this means not having all the usual photos of members in their respective places of prayer, work and recreation. I am not judging those who do this, but personally I don’t want it. I think truth and authenticity can stand on their own merit.
  3. “The new community has the option of making their intentions known to the Church (a Bishop), or to continue to grow organically in their Charism and in their particular expression of it. While it shows their desire to be submissive to the Church to approach a Bishop, it can be prudent to not do so.” This quote from our site is not from me but is from Fr. Elio Gambari, a canon lawyer who wrote the book on foundings, literally. He wrote the book, “The canonical establishment of a religious institute: Process and Procedures. He is the foremost expert in his field as he was part of the writing of the canons regarding foundings in the revised code of 1983. It is as authoritative as it gets. If it is not against Church teaching, why portray it as dubious behavior?
  4. Perhaps it takes more than a smell test to accurately discern the spirit of any movement, group or person. And perhaps no judgment should be made nor spread based on a smell test. As I stated previously, the site is to promote Total Consecration, which is our Charism. That seems very natural to me, using the site to further that which is our mission. We have a PO Box because where I live there are no mailboxes at any of the residences, only PO Boxes at the Post Office. No one could mail anything to the physical address, so why put it? By the way, all of the content in the newsletters is original and written by me (unless it is quoted and referenced), while the design and artwork is done by another member.
  5. All orders are unapproved until they are approved. It can take a very long time to have canonical status and that does not make them illegitimate during the time it takes to obtain status in the Church. The only time they have canonical status from their very beginning is when a bishop is the founder. This was true for all orders, including the Jesuits, Carmelites, Benedictines, Franciscans. All of them took religious vows and wore habits before having canonical status. I suggest you choose your words carefully as they can be misinterpreted easily. Most people would take the word unapproved to mean disapproved of, invalid or illegitimate, and that is not the case.
  6. We do not base ourselves on apparitions, nor do we have a philosophy from them. We base ourselves on the Charism of Total Consecration. Does our devotional life include that which comes from private revelation? Yes. But nothing that contradicts Church teaching and all of it supports our Charism of unreserved and total self-gift to God.
  7. Perhaps in a time where secular law seems to come from an attitude that says, nothing is lawful unless a law allows for it, that mentality can creep into religion. But that does not make it right. The Church does not intend to foster this kind of mentality by having laws. As Jesus says, “the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.” He said this to the Pharisees who insisted He broke the Sabbath law by healing on the Sabbath, considering it work, and therefore wrong in the eyes of God and a sin. Therefore, as law is made for man, then laws are meant to serve man’s good, not to impose restrictions unnecessarily. This means that The Church was created by God to serve His children, by governing in order to protect them from harm and to give them what He Himself came to give them, to continue His mission. It is a matter of prudence for the Church, in Her Bishop’s, to oversee religious orders, associations, and movements, to ensure that no spiritual harm come to any of its members. And ultimately all of these must come under the auspices of the Church. But all in proper order and with due process, and in the preparatory stage of development it is not possible; no bishop will do it unless he himself is the founder. There is no law against founding a religious community and we are living within our rights as a preparatory association.
God bless you and Mary keep you
Br. Mariamartin
 
In response to the RB2 post

Peace to you
  1. I would simply ask you to read all the information on this site by a priest theologian who was a part of the process of dialogue between Vassula and the CDF. web.me.com/hvidt/TLIG-CDF/Introduction.html It is his first hand account from the beginning and gives the full sequence of events. I would also ask you to read her clarifications for yourself as well that she submitted to the CDF in response to their questions. You can see for yourself there is no doctrinal error. tlig.org/en/testimonies/churchpos/cdf2005/grechanswr/
Br. Mariamartin
Sir!
You ask me to read earlier opinions prior to Cardinal Levadas Letter on the matter dated Jan 2007.Why dont you follow the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faithful in these matters? Its the most recent and official wording on this matter,which cautions on the dissemination of the Vassula Ryden writings. Obviously you throw caution to the wind. Someone should have greater authority over you…precisely Cardinal Levada!

infovassula.ch/tligchurchposition.htm
January 25, 2007
Prot. N.: 54/92 – 24945
Your Eminence / Your Excellency,
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith continues to receive requests for clarification in relation to the writings and activities of Mrs Vassula Rydén. These requests address in particular the import of the Notification of 6 October 1995, and the criteria to be considered by the local Church in judging whether the writings of Mrs Vassula Ryden may appropriately be disseminated.
In this regard, the Congregation wishes to state de following:
  1. Code:
     The Notification of 1995 remains valid as a doctrinal judgment of the writings examined (see Enclosure 1).
  1. Code:
     Mrs Vassula Rydén, however, after dialogue with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, has offered clarifications on some problematic points in her writings and on the nature of her messages which are presented not as divine revelations, but rather as her personal meditations (see Enclosure 2: Letter of 4 April 2002, published in True Life in God, vol. 10). From a normative point of view therefore, following the aforementioned clarifications, a case by case prudential judgment is required in view of the real possibility of the faithful being able to read the writings in the light of the said clarifications.
  1. Code:
     Finally, it remains inappropriate for Catholics to take part in prayer groups established by Mrs Rydén. Concerning the question of ecumenical meetings, the faithful are to follow the norms of the Ecumenical Directory, of the Code of Canon Law (canons: 215; 223 §2 and 383 §3) and of Diocesan Ordinaries.
Thanking you for your attention and with sentiments of esteem, I am
Yours sincerely in Christ,
Code:
                                                                                                             Cardinal William LEVADA
Code:
                                                                                                                       Prefect
 
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