M
meedo
Guest
why there havent been outrage against Jews and isrtaelis same as there were against acts of terror done by some muslims?
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StMarkEofE
Guest
I guess because this is only one occassion in which something of this magnitude has happened. But if one adds up all the terrorist bombings which are the result of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc. one could see the disporportionate responsibility in world terrorism has to be layed at the feet of fundamental Islamic terrorists.
The Christian world does not present a threat to worldwide Muslims. As a matter of fact that it is in predominately Christian countries that Muslims are having their greatest growth right now. I can not find a country where Muslims are threatened by Christians.
StMarkEofE
M
meedo
Guest
True St Mark ,
But isnt there any consideration that the both terrorist israeli acts that occuored were sanctioned by the israeliu goivernment ? while on the other hand al qaida is an outlawed group in all muslim countries?
what about the possibility that there is more that is hidden that is done by Israel like teh Lavon affair i mentioned .
But isnt there any consideration that the both terrorist israeli acts that occuored were sanctioned by the israeliu goivernment ? while on the other hand al qaida is an outlawed group in all muslim countries?
what about the possibility that there is more that is hidden that is done by Israel like teh Lavon affair i mentioned .
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Pax
Guest
Israel is our ally, and even a severe event/mistake(?) won’t necessarily destroy the relationship or cause the relations between the two countries to diminish. Israel has certainly committed excesses in dealing with her Arab neighbors. At the same time, Israel’s Arab neighbors have made threats against Israel, made terrorists attacks against Israel, and even full scale war. Generally speaking, it’s all bad.
Israel is surrounded by its Arab neighbors and tensions in modern times generally run a gamut of bad to worse. Israel doesn’t surround its Arab neighbors and has never made it a cause to either wipe out an Arab country or fail to give recognition to the existence of current Arab nation. Such threats have, however, been leveled at Israel.
Once again, I will mention that Israel has, indeed, committed excesses in dealing with the Palestinians and in some cases other Arab neighbors. This cannot be excused. At the same time, Israel almost always lives on a war footing because of the violence and tensions that are directed against her. I do not believe that Israel can cure the problems, and I see little help coming from her neighbors. The problems have been in place for an extremely long time, and they are not about to go away.
I pray frequently for peace in the middle east. I pray frequently for an end to the loss of life on both sides of the Israeli/Palestinian struggle. I have prayed frequently over the loss of life suffered by the people of Iraq at the hands of my country and its weapons. While I have no respect or anything positive to say about Saddam Hussein, my heart goes out to the people of Iraq. They have suffered greatly in the war with Iran, Desert Storm, and now the most recent Gulf War and its aftermath.
Human life is precious whether it is that of a Muslim, Catholic, Jew, or atheist. This fact often seems lost in the course of human events.
S
StMarkEofE
Guest
What is not being portrayed on the mass media is that Palestinian Christians are also being persecuted in Israel. We tend to think that all Palestinians are Muslim but this is not true.
Is Al Qaeda outlawed in ALL muslim countries? I think not. Some countries pretend that they dont exist and others just tolerate their existance to avoid being killed themselves. Also, I have yet to hear from a major religious leader in the Muslim world who will come out forthrightly and condemn these acts of terrorism. I do hear occassionally some local imams say that they do not subcribe to what is going on but that is about all I hear.
StMarkEofE
P
Pax
Guest
meedo said:*bracing for some good islam baching *
I understand your anxiety, but join the club. Catholics get bashed all the time as do many groups. It seems to be part of the human condition to be either a basher or to be one of the bashed. I suspect that even perfection would have its share of bashers.
S
StMarkEofE
Guest
Here is a little taste of Palestine for all:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/620880.html
Last update - 09:59 05/09/2005
Muslims torch 14 Christian homes near Ramallah
By Arnon Regular
At least 14 houses belonging to Christian residents of Taybeh, a West Bank
village northeast of Ramallah, were torched by Muslims from neighboring Dir
Jarir yesterday, to avenge what they termed the dishonor of a Muslim woman.
According to Taybeh residents, several dozen young men from Dir Jarir
descended on their village before dawn, torched the homes and destroyed a
great deal of other property.
“The young men, who were holding Molotov cocktails, threw them at the
houses, which began to go up in flames, one after another,” said Buthaina
Sha’aban, a Taybeh resident and the sister of the town’s mayor. “They
vandalized parked cars and beat village residents who went out into the
streets. Entire families were thrown into the street after their homes were
torched. Not much remains of their property. We urge all international,
Israeli and Palestinian actors to intervene and protect village residents
from the Muslim rage.”
The attackers also torched stores, a farm and a gas station. The latter fire
was put out before fuel tanks exploded. Palestinian Authority policemen who
arrived on the scene also managed to save the village’s famous beer factory.
The two villages are located in Area B, meaning that they are under Israel
security control. Access to the villages from Area A, where the PA police is
located, is only possible by going through Area C, under full Israeli
control. Residents said that several hours passed until the Israel Defense
Forces agreed to allow the PA police to leave Ramallah and enter the village
to stop the rampage.
Later, the Palestinian governor of the Ramallah area visited the scene to
try to soothe tempers, as did several senior Christian clerics. Most Taybeh
residents are either Catholic or Greek Orthodox.
PA security sources said that the rampage was triggered by an incident last
week in which a 23-year-old woman was killed by her relatives because they
suspected her of carrying on a romance with a Christian man from Taybeh. The
woman was quickly buried, but last Tuesday, the PA police exhumed the body
for an autopsy.
Need I say more?
StMarkEofE
M
meedo
Guest
Title This is a wrong title…
Name: Khalid
City: State:
This is a wrong and tendentious title because it suggests that this is a religious confrontation when in fact it is not.
Things like this happen in Middle Eastern society, unfotunately…
Earlier this year, a Christian family killed their daughter because she wanted to marry a Muslim…
However, to utilize the issue for propaganda purposes underscores ill will.
Title Towards a better journalism
Name: Ilan Toren
City: Ariel State:
I would certainly like a less “shock” oriented journalism to a more moderate discussion based on issues. So often the “settlers” and religious are the targets of the cause based journalism, so much so that Israelis have come to expect villifications and extreme generalizations as “normal”. Here is a case of a story that shows a known problem in the Arab world, the complete lack of tolerance for minorities, but while some of Tulip`s points in #2 are valid, it is too broad a brush. The point of the type of journalism practiced here is to constantly direct criticism against the “other” so that the left secular majority can make themselves immune from criticism. When people who see themselves as zionists participate in this practice they are only inviting future attacks on themselves.
Title why should an entire religion be condemned for the disgusting act of few gangsters
Name: Khalid
City: State:
Tulip, others. This is cheap opportunism. The act of a few gangsters shouldn`t be used to condemn an entire people or religion. The gangsters and hoodlums should be arrested and thrown into jail…, period.
This is not a matter of Islam vs. christianity. Even if the “aggressor” was a Muslim, the same thing would have happened. So it is Christian vs. Muslim…
Can`t you people be honest?
Title You people cheapen yourselves with this cheap opportunism
Name: Khalid
City: State:
It is an expression of cheap oppportunism to pour your hatred and vindictiveness on our religion just because of the disgusting acts of a few criminals.
A few years ago, Haredis tried to burn to death to Christian college students in West Jerusalem.
Their crime was “renting a home” in a Haredi neighborhood.
In short, there are ignoramuses and fanatics in every religion…but to generalize this incident and claim that all Muslims are criminals and want to kill non-Muslims would be equally criminal…
shall we from now on monitor Israeli and Jewish behaviros…and when they do something disgusting…we will claim that all Jews are blood suckers and Judaism is a criminal religion?
Title Kim…you are dishonest
Name: Khalid
City: State:
Kim, yesterday you argued that people shouldn`t blame crime in the West on Christiantiy…but you are blaming crimes and disgusting acts on the sharia…
Is the PA ruled by the sharia? Is the PA a state?
Who has control at the vilalge where this crime took place, the PA or Israel?
Why didn`t the Israeli army stop these thugs?
Khalid
The above were some replies to the article and i agree with them. Those peopel who did that should be punished.
Name: Khalid
City: State:
This is a wrong and tendentious title because it suggests that this is a religious confrontation when in fact it is not.
Things like this happen in Middle Eastern society, unfotunately…
Earlier this year, a Christian family killed their daughter because she wanted to marry a Muslim…
However, to utilize the issue for propaganda purposes underscores ill will.
Title Towards a better journalism
Name: Ilan Toren
City: Ariel State:
I would certainly like a less “shock” oriented journalism to a more moderate discussion based on issues. So often the “settlers” and religious are the targets of the cause based journalism, so much so that Israelis have come to expect villifications and extreme generalizations as “normal”. Here is a case of a story that shows a known problem in the Arab world, the complete lack of tolerance for minorities, but while some of Tulip`s points in #2 are valid, it is too broad a brush. The point of the type of journalism practiced here is to constantly direct criticism against the “other” so that the left secular majority can make themselves immune from criticism. When people who see themselves as zionists participate in this practice they are only inviting future attacks on themselves.
Title why should an entire religion be condemned for the disgusting act of few gangsters
Name: Khalid
City: State:
Tulip, others. This is cheap opportunism. The act of a few gangsters shouldn`t be used to condemn an entire people or religion. The gangsters and hoodlums should be arrested and thrown into jail…, period.
This is not a matter of Islam vs. christianity. Even if the “aggressor” was a Muslim, the same thing would have happened. So it is Christian vs. Muslim…
Can`t you people be honest?
Title You people cheapen yourselves with this cheap opportunism
Name: Khalid
City: State:
It is an expression of cheap oppportunism to pour your hatred and vindictiveness on our religion just because of the disgusting acts of a few criminals.
A few years ago, Haredis tried to burn to death to Christian college students in West Jerusalem.
Their crime was “renting a home” in a Haredi neighborhood.
In short, there are ignoramuses and fanatics in every religion…but to generalize this incident and claim that all Muslims are criminals and want to kill non-Muslims would be equally criminal…
shall we from now on monitor Israeli and Jewish behaviros…and when they do something disgusting…we will claim that all Jews are blood suckers and Judaism is a criminal religion?
Title Kim…you are dishonest
Name: Khalid
City: State:
Kim, yesterday you argued that people shouldn`t blame crime in the West on Christiantiy…but you are blaming crimes and disgusting acts on the sharia…
Is the PA ruled by the sharia? Is the PA a state?
Who has control at the vilalge where this crime took place, the PA or Israel?
Why didn`t the Israeli army stop these thugs?
Khalid
The above were some replies to the article and i agree with them. Those peopel who did that should be punished.
S
StMarkEofE
Guest
Palestinian Chrisitians are a minority within a hostile state be it Muslim or Jew. They are second class citizens in their own land. Im not surprised that the Israeli police dosnt crack down on these thugs because they dont care enough about the Christian communities in their areas. They are left to defend themselves against an increasingly hostile Muslim state and this is my worry.
StMarkEofE
S
StMarkEofE
Guest
Hey, what is it with you guys???
Jihad declared against LAPD
Nation of Islam flyer calls for gangs to unite against cops
Posted: September 5, 2005
3:15 p.m. Eastern
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
The Nation of Islam in Los Angeles is calling on the Crips and Bloods street gangs to stop fighting each other - and to unite in a jihad against the LAPD.
That’s the essence of a flyer obtained by KFI News and circulated in South Los Angeles, calling on members of two violent street gangs to start a “holy war” against the police department.
The telephone number listed for the Nation of Islam’s Los Angeles mosque near 87th and Vermont has been disconnected, but a check of a reverse directory reveals the phone number on the flyer is connected to the mosque at the same address, according to KFI.
The Nation of Islam’s L.A. leader, Minister Tony Muhammad, has claimed he was the victim of an unprovoked attack by LAPD officers at the scene of a vigil for a murdered gang member.
The LAPD last week released an audio tape of some garbled radio transmissions in which they say Muhammad can be heard challenging officers.
The photograph on the flyer appears to have been taken at a news conference held just after Muhammad was released from jail. Muhammad and the Nation of Islam have not returned calls for comment.
It’s unclear who created the flyer so the LAPD has declined to comment, other than saying officers have been aware of them for several days.
“This is deeply disturbing,” Los Angeles Police Protective League President Bob Baker told KFI. “Quite frankly, this is a case in which I hope our mayor, our police commission and our community leaders can step in to remind everyone of our shared priorities.”
Jihad declared against LAPD
Nation of Islam flyer calls for gangs to unite against cops
Posted: September 5, 2005
3:15 p.m. Eastern
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
The Nation of Islam in Los Angeles is calling on the Crips and Bloods street gangs to stop fighting each other - and to unite in a jihad against the LAPD.
That’s the essence of a flyer obtained by KFI News and circulated in South Los Angeles, calling on members of two violent street gangs to start a “holy war” against the police department.
The telephone number listed for the Nation of Islam’s Los Angeles mosque near 87th and Vermont has been disconnected, but a check of a reverse directory reveals the phone number on the flyer is connected to the mosque at the same address, according to KFI.
The Nation of Islam’s L.A. leader, Minister Tony Muhammad, has claimed he was the victim of an unprovoked attack by LAPD officers at the scene of a vigil for a murdered gang member.
The LAPD last week released an audio tape of some garbled radio transmissions in which they say Muhammad can be heard challenging officers.
The photograph on the flyer appears to have been taken at a news conference held just after Muhammad was released from jail. Muhammad and the Nation of Islam have not returned calls for comment.
It’s unclear who created the flyer so the LAPD has declined to comment, other than saying officers have been aware of them for several days.
“This is deeply disturbing,” Los Angeles Police Protective League President Bob Baker told KFI. “Quite frankly, this is a case in which I hope our mayor, our police commission and our community leaders can step in to remind everyone of our shared priorities.”
C
Convert68
Guest
McVeigh never claimed to be a Christian or that what he did was on behalf of Christianity. He considered himself an agnostic. The people who did 9-11 in New York, 7-7 in London, the railways in Madrid, the schoolchildren in Russia, etc all considered themselves true Moslems and did their atrocities on behalf of their “faith.” Many Moslems have condemned what they did but many have not. It appears that Islam is very divided on this and that the extreme Islamists do represent a sizable constituency.
What Moslems are not divided on:
- There is no separation of church and state. All states should be Moslem theocracies.
- Christians and Jews are to be tolerated only. That does not mean anything approaching equality. In all mixed marriages, the children must become Moslems. Apostacy is a capital offense. This system of tolerance is designed to have the other people of the Book eventually die out.
- The Koran may say nice things about the equality of men and women but in practice today (and probably for always), women are nowhere more mistreated, unprotected and restricted than in Moslem countries. Our western (Christian) traditions of chivalry whereby women were entitled to special protection by men are virtually non-existant in Moslem societies.
- Even in fairly modern but predominantly Moslem countries like Malaysia, homosexuality is a capital offence (probably not in practice like rape was in Canada before 1955 but on the law books nevertheless). As Catholics, we regard homosexuality as abnormal but I doubt if any of us would support making it even a minor criminal offence again.
E
exoflare
Guest
I’m pretty sure “Nation of Islam” is a separate movement from the Muslim religion in general. Something to do with black people, specifically…?
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StMarkEofE
Guest
Please correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying the the black people of America that are Muslim are different in someway than the balance of Muslims thoughout the world??? I though that Muslims agree in total with each other. I guess there are some differences and schisms througout the Muslim world?
StMarkEofE
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exoflare
Guest
No, not necessarily. Just because somebody is both black and Muslim doesn’t mean they are a member of that group. I’m just saying how I thought “Nation of Islam” was a separate movement in itself that is specifically composed of black people.
Plus, a Muslim I knew several years ago told me that “Nation of Islam” had nothing to do with the religion of Islam, so I figured he would know. Don’t remember much of the details, however…
C
Contarini
Guest
Exoflare, you’re quite right. The Nation of Islam is about as Muslim as Mormonism is Christian.
Edwin
Edwin
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StMarkEofE
Guest
Whoa, wait a minute, are you stating that the nation of Islam is not Islamic and did not Malcolm X not join with his Islamic brothers in the middle east on a hadj to Mecca? Does this not make him a Muslim in the most basis sense?
StMarkEofE
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exoflare
Guest
If the standard for being Muslim is that they call themselves Muslim, then I guess.
S
StMarkEofE
Guest
I am sure that the nation of Islam take themselves as very serious. And that they dont take their religion lightly. And I think they put a lot of effort and energy into this belief. Why would the rest of the Muslim world not recognized them as valid followers of Muhammed?
StMarkEofE
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exoflare
Guest
I have no idea. For all I know, maybe they do. But since there is no real authority in Islam, who is really to decide?
C
Contarini
Guest
I don’t know all the in’s and out’s of Malcolm X and the other guys associated with the N of I. I thought that he became a more orthodox Muslim later on and broke with Elijah Mohammed, and that was one of the reasons why he was killed. But I could be wrong about that. I do know that mainstream Muslims don’t recognize the Nation of Islam as truly Islamic, and many former N of I’s have become orthodox Muslims.
It’s downright silly to say that there’s no authority in Islam (or Orthodoxy, or specific traditions of Protestantism) just because there isn’t a Catholic-style Magisterium. Sunni Islam works by consensus–it’s messier than the Catholic model, perhaps, but it’s kept them going for nearly 1400 years. Shia Islam, of course, is quite different, and more like Catholicism.
Edwin
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