I think my faith is gone

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StudentMI

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It hit me tonight. It wasn’t a huge emotional moment. I have been struggling with some thoughts lately, theological stuff about Satan and Hell. And I was just thinking about something and I said to myself, “I guess my faith is gone.” It was calm and just acknowledging what I felt and thought. I don’t feel happy or sad.

Basically my thoughts ran along the lines of “okay, I can see God creating people and wanting all to be saved, but respecting freedom to choose salvation or damnation, but why let Satan get involved just to send people to Hell? And why did God create Satan anyway, or allow him to live after the rebellion? And why did Satan rebel? And why did God allow all this seeing as how he knows how it all ends up, who goes where?” etc. It makes God look malevolent, to be frank. Like amputating someone’s limbs and then ordering them to run or you’ll kill them.

I don’t know what to think. But I don’t think I have any faith left.
 
StudentMI said:
It hit me tonight. It wasn’t a huge emotional moment. I have been struggling with some thoughts lately, theological stuff about Satan and Hell. And I was just thinking about something and I said to myself, “I guess my faith is gone.” It was calm and just acknowledging what I felt and thought. I don’t feel happy or sad.

Basically my thoughts ran along the lines of “okay, I can see God creating people and wanting all to be saved, but respecting freedom to choose salvation or damnation, but why let Satan get involved just to send people to Hell? And why did God create Satan anyway, or allow him to live after the rebellion? And why did Satan rebel? And why did God allow all this seeing as how he knows how it all ends up, who goes where?” etc. It makes God look malevolent, to be frank. Like amputating someone’s limbs and then ordering them to run or you’ll kill them.

I don’t know what to think. But I don’t think I have any faith left.
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Faith is one of the theological virtues, a gift of the Holy Spirit which is received with sanctifying grace.

If creatures have no choice then all would be determined and there could be no expression of love or hate. Humans have the potential of the Beatific Vision and are made in the image and likeness of God, something which became a matter of envy for Satan and the fallen angels.
 
Interesting. You were confirmed at almost the same time I was.

As for me, I just lost a desire to pray. I felt alienated by the Church.

I had a few experiences that were like Stalingrad (from the perspective of the Wehrmacht). I felt disillusioned and betrayed by the Church.
 
StudentMI said:
It hit me tonight. It wasn’t a huge emotional moment. I have been struggling with some thoughts lately, theological stuff about Satan and Hell. And I was just thinking about something and I said to myself, “I guess my faith is gone.” It was calm and just acknowledging what I felt and thought. I don’t feel happy or sad.

Basically my thoughts ran along the lines of “okay, I can see God creating people and wanting all to be saved, but respecting freedom to choose salvation or damnation, but why let Satan get involved just to send people to Hell? And why did God create Satan anyway, or allow him to live after the rebellion? And why did Satan rebel? And why did God allow all this seeing as how he knows how it all ends up, who goes where?” etc. It makes God look malevolent, to be frank. Like amputating someone’s limbs and then ordering them to run or you’ll kill them.

I don’t know what to think. But I don’t think I have any faith left.
Click to expand...
Latias said:
Interesting. You were confirmed at almost the same time I was.

As for me, I just lost a desire to pray. I felt alienated by the Church.

I had a few experiences that were like Stalingrad (from the perspective of the Wehrmacht). I felt disillusioned and betrayed by the Church.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry that you are both going through such hard times spiritually.

Sometimes the trick is to force oneself to pray, even if you don’t feel like it.

Sometimes it helps to reflect that the actions of men in the Church (no matter how high up or low down they are) reflect their own free will, and not God’s will. “Let God be true, though every man be a liar.”

And sometimes it also helps to remember that this is one of Satan’s ways of tempting us. “Hmm, dude? That God isn’t so holy, ain’t he? Isn’t he an evil tyrant? And what about them Bishops and that Pope? Perhaps you should just ditch the whole stunt, hmmm?”

Praying for both of you. Don’t give up. :):)🙂
 
StudentMI said:
It hit me tonight. It wasn’t a huge emotional moment. I have been struggling with some thoughts lately, theological stuff about Satan and Hell. And I was just thinking about something and I said to myself, “I guess my faith is gone.” It was calm and just acknowledging what I felt and thought. I don’t feel happy or sad.

Basically my thoughts ran along the lines of “okay, I can see God creating people and wanting all to be saved, but respecting freedom to choose salvation or damnation, but why let Satan get involved just to send people to Hell? And why did God create Satan anyway, or allow him to live after the rebellion? And why did Satan rebel? And why did God allow all this seeing as how he knows how it all ends up, who goes where?” etc. It makes God look malevolent, to be frank. Like amputating someone’s limbs and then ordering them to run or you’ll kill them.

I don’t know what to think. But I don’t think I have any faith left.
Click to expand...
There are some religions which do not teach hellfire. Anyway, with reference to losing your faith totally, how does one explain the phenomenon of consciousness. Suppose you had a computer where each circuit mimicked a cell of the brain. Do you think that you could ever get consciousness that way? Is consciousness something more than a conglomeration of atoms and molecules. Can it be explained in a totally materialistic and non-spiritual way?
Some people are generous and kind. Others are selfish and hostile. Do things like love, hate, hostility and generosity arise solely because of the arrangement of atoms and molecules in one’s body?
 
StudentMI said:
It hit me tonight. It wasn’t a huge emotional moment. I have been struggling with some thoughts lately, theological stuff about Satan and Hell. And I was just thinking about something and I said to myself, “I guess my faith is gone.” It was calm and just acknowledging what I felt and thought. I don’t feel happy or sad.

Basically my thoughts ran along the lines of “okay, I can see God creating people and wanting all to be saved, but respecting freedom to choose salvation or damnation, but why let Satan get involved just to send people to Hell? And why did God create Satan anyway, or allow him to live after the rebellion? And why did Satan rebel? And why did God allow all this seeing as how he knows how it all ends up, who goes where?” etc. It makes God look malevolent, to be frank. Like amputating someone’s limbs and then ordering them to run or you’ll kill them.

I don’t know what to think. But I don’t think I have any faith left.
Click to expand...
I’m so sorry that you feel this way.

If you think that you feel up to it, I would just suggest that you read the Book of Job in the Bible, if you haven’t done so already. Satan figures prominently in it. I think that it’s rather thought-provoking.

I have had “ups and downs” in my faith myself, throughout the years.

As I reflect back, the best thing that I can personally tell you is to just keep on going. Stay close to the Lord, the best that you can.

Keep going to Mass, and keep doing your best. Pray the best way that you can, even telling the Lord how you feel now, at this time.

Hang in there. Prayers said for you. May God bless you during this difficult time for you.
 
Latias said:
Interesting. You were confirmed at almost the same time I was.

As for me, I just lost a desire to pray. I felt alienated by the Church.

I had a few experiences that were like Stalingrad (from the perspective of the Wehrmacht). I felt disillusioned and betrayed by the Church.
Click to expand...
I’m so sorry that you are struggling, as well, and I am so sorry that you have felt alienated.

Prayers said for you, too.

May God bless you during this time of difficulty for you, too.
 
Tomdstone said:
There are some religions which do not teach hellfire. Anyway, with reference to losing your faith totally, how does one explain the phenomenon of consciousness. Suppose you had a computer where each circuit mimicked a cell of the brain. Do you think that you could ever get consciousness that way? Is consciousness something more than a conglomeration of atoms and molecules. Can it be explained in a totally materialistic and non-spiritual way?
Some people are generous and kind. Others are selfish and hostile. Do things like love, hate, hostility and generosity arise solely because of the arrangement of atoms and molecules in one’s body?
Click to expand...
I address this in an earlier post. I didn’t provide an answer, but the epistemological issues of eliminative materialism would be relevant to addressing that

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=933710
RPRPsych said:
I’m sorry that you are both going through such hard times spiritually.

Sometimes the trick is to force oneself to pray, even if you don’t feel like it.

Sometimes it helps to reflect that the actions of men in the Church (no matter how high up or low down they are) reflect their own free will, and not God’s will. “Let God be true, though every man be a liar.”

And sometimes it also helps to remember that this is one of Satan’s ways of tempting us. “Hmm, dude? That God isn’t so holy, ain’t he? Isn’t he an evil tyrant? And what about them Bishops and that Pope? Perhaps you should just ditch the whole stunt, hmmm?”

Praying for both of you. Don’t give up. :):)🙂
Click to expand...
I find that unacceptable. I should hold the Church accountable for various actions committed by individuals entrenched in the hierarchy or inspired by Catholic ideology, especially when the Church does not apologize or fails to disown the ideology responsible for such actions. The Church is a organization, not merely an ideology existing without any political representation or institutional hierarchy. What good is the Church’s moral teaching and authority if it has negligible effect in fostering kindness and benevolence?

By your logic, I could absolve Nazism by saying that most its atrocities were attributed to a few individuals.​

I could no longer pray. The emotions and piety are no longer there.

My emotions were first of profound disappointment and disillusionment, not relief, apathy, or sadness. To put it simply, I suppose I believed in something about the Church that just wasn’t there.

Another experience that happened before disappointment was my exposure to the ideology of a conservative puritanical priest. It compromised my faith and gave me an impression that God is really petty who would send to perdition anyone who committed something that would be regarded as trivial by others since it would be regarded as a “mortal sin” or fall victim to human weakness. Because of him, the moral philosophy of David Hume intimately resonated me, as opposed to being merely interesting insights of meta-ethics.
 
Think back to the time before you wanted to become a Catholic. Then recall your own journey of faith into the Catholic Church. Jesus wants you to be with Him in a very real sense while you live out your life. Nowhere else can you receive His body and blood but in the Catholic Church. Jesus started this church and wants everyone to join and remain in His body (the church) until He comes again. Recall all that you learned when studying to become a Catholic. Once you were received into the Church, your journey should continue through continuing to study and learn, receive the sacraments regularly, begin to participate more fully by accepting some work for the Church. This is essential. God wants us to do His work here on earth. Read the Gospel of Matthew, focusing on Jesus’ words to you. Faith without works is dead. Having doubts about your faith can be scary, however living out your faith while performing some ministries (feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick, helping those less fortunate than yourself, etc) will reinforce you faith in ways you cannot now imagine. Being Christ to others, letting Him use you as His disciple will cure your unbelief, may God continue to bless you on your ongoing journey.
 
Latias said:
I address this in an earlier post. I didn’t provide an answer, but the epistemological issues of eliminative materialism would be relevant to addressing that

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=933710

I find that unacceptable. I should hold the Church accountable for various actions committed by individuals entrenched in the hierarchy or inspired by Catholic ideology, especially when the Church does not apologize or fails to disown the ideology responsible for such actions. The Church is a organization, not merely an ideology existing without any political representation or institutional hierarchy. What good is the Church’s moral teaching and authority if it has negligible effect in fostering kindness and benevolence?

By your logic, I could absolve Nazism by saying that most its atrocities were attributed to a few individuals.​

I could no longer pray. The emotions and piety are no longer there.

My emotions were first of profound disappointment and disillusionment, not relief, apathy, or sadness. To put it simply, I suppose I believed in something about the Church that just wasn’t there.

Another experience that happened before disappointment was my exposure to the ideology of a conservative puritanical priest. It compromised my faith and gave me an impression that God is really petty who would send to perdition anyone who committed something that would be regarded as trivial by others since it would be regarded as a “mortal sin” or fall victim to human weakness. Because of him, the moral philosophy of David Hume intimately resonated me, as opposed to being merely interesting insights of meta-ethics.
Click to expand...
Focus on what Jesus wants from you, and let go of your personal resentments. The Catholic Church is a hospital for sinners on the road to eternal life. Jesus gave us the Church to help us draw closer to Him. Dwelling on what a certain sinful person has done will not assist you on your journey of faith. Go back to basics. What does Jesus teach us, what does the Church teach in the Catechism, get busy living your faith and let go of your expectations about a perfect church. If is was perfect, none of us would be in it after all. Focus on the biggest picture: We are all born for eternal life. That is good news if you follow Jesus and become His disciple, through and through. Faith is an action and a choice we make moment to moment and day by day. When we focus on negative things, we also become negative. Focus on Christ instead. Ask Him to help you with resentments and to keep you close to Him. Do your own part, by regular confession, attend Adoration at least weekly, ask for what you need and listen to what He has in mind for you to do while you live out the rest of your earthly life. He has a plan in mind for you, if you can let go of resentment and disappointments. Be the person Jesus called you to be.
 
StudentMI said:
It hit me tonight. It wasn’t a huge emotional moment. I have been struggling with some thoughts lately, theological stuff about Satan and Hell. And I was just thinking about something and I said to myself, “I guess my faith is gone.” It was calm and just acknowledging what I felt and thought. I don’t feel happy or sad.

Basically my thoughts ran along the lines of “okay, I can see God creating people and wanting all to be saved, but respecting freedom to choose salvation or damnation, but why let Satan get involved just to send people to Hell? And why did God create Satan anyway, or allow him to live after the rebellion? And why did Satan rebel? And why did God allow all this seeing as how he knows how it all ends up, who goes where?” etc. It makes God look malevolent, to be frank. Like amputating someone’s limbs and then ordering them to run or you’ll kill them.

I don’t know what to think. But I don’t think I have any faith left.
Click to expand...
Satan and his cohorts who willfully rebelled against God is on a leash. We are not tempted beyond our strength, but are given all that we need to become saints through our Lord Jesus Christ!

The sacraments sincerely received, and much prayer on our part, and gifts of the Holy Spirit are freely given so that we can win the battle!

When we resist satan and his wiles we are choosing God!
 
There is a difference between losing faith and questioning the simple answers.
 
If you’re in the Church, and you’re condemning someone’s evil actions, obviously the Church is condemning those evil actions. You just need to find all the rest of the Church that is also condemning the evil actions.

If the Church really taught that evil actions are okay, you would probably not see anything wrong with them, now would you? You’d be praising those actions as good, or at least saying that they were perfectly okay and no problem.
 
StudentMI said:
It hit me tonight. It wasn’t a huge emotional moment. I have been struggling with some thoughts lately, theological stuff about Satan and Hell. And I was just thinking about something and I said to myself, “I guess my faith is gone.” It was calm and just acknowledging what I felt and thought. I don’t feel happy or sad.

Basically my thoughts ran along the lines of “okay, I can see God creating people and wanting all to be saved, but respecting freedom to choose salvation or damnation, but why let Satan get involved just to send people to Hell? And why did God create Satan anyway, or allow him to live after the rebellion? And why did Satan rebel? And why did God allow all this seeing as how he knows how it all ends up, who goes where?” etc. It makes God look malevolent, to be frank. Like amputating someone’s limbs and then ordering them to run or you’ll kill them.

I don’t know what to think. But I don’t think I have any faith left.
Click to expand...
Why did that tv family keep their son? The Duggers I think their name is? The ones where the son touched the girl inappropriately…

Because they still love their son.

If God loves us all then it is quite logical He loves Satan. He in His more than human capabilities made it such that Satan can tempt us sure. But if we make the right choices Satan is bound… so basically you are asking God to unmake or completely negate any chance of some of His beloved children from ever redeeming themselves. Perhaps Satan’s lot is cast, and perhaps God simply cannot bare to end things yet.

My uncle was a screw up, he was not kicked out of the house until he was in his 50’s…
 
Latias said:
I address this in an earlier post. I didn’t provide an answer, but the epistemological issues of eliminative materialism would be relevant to addressing that

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=933710

I find that unacceptable. I should hold the Church accountable for various actions committed by individuals entrenched in the hierarchy or inspired by Catholic ideology, especially when the Church does not apologize or fails to disown the ideology responsible for such actions. The Church is a organization, not merely an ideology existing without any political representation or institutional hierarchy. What good is the Church’s moral teaching and authority if it has negligible effect in fostering kindness and benevolence?

By your logic, I could absolve Nazism by saying that most its atrocities were attributed to a few individuals.​

I could no longer pray. The emotions and piety are no longer there.

My emotions were first of profound disappointment and disillusionment, not relief, apathy, or sadness. To put it simply, I suppose I believed in something about the Church that just wasn’t there.

Another experience that happened before disappointment was my exposure to the ideology of a conservative puritanical priest. It compromised my faith and gave me an impression that God is really petty who would send to perdition anyone who committed something that would be regarded as trivial by others since it would be regarded as a “mortal sin” or fall victim to human weakness. Because of him, the moral philosophy of David Hume intimately resonated me, as opposed to being merely interesting insights of meta-ethics.
Click to expand...
We refer to those … who are kind … as saints.

Some have been formally recognized.

Some of them struggled with bureaucracy.

St. John of the Cross. Juan de la Cruz.

He especially comes to mind.

His letters have been saved.

jesus-passion.com/John_of_the_Cross.htm

The letters have also been published in book form.

icspublications.org/index.php/john-of-the-cross/the-collected-works-of-st-john-of-the-cross.html

In several languages.

icspublications.org
 
One day I was reading a book on economics and the author [who I really respected] gave the Catholic Church a severe hammering.

He raised questions about the Real Presence. And many other things.

At lunch time, I went to daily Mass.

But as I waited for Mass to begin, my mind was racing with all of the author’s discussion points.

“How can I go to Mass and receive Holy Communion if I have all these doubts”.

My mind raced faster and faster.

Until finally, my mind was exhausted.

And then, my mind was totally blank.

And then … I heard this small little voice.

And the voice said, “Keep coming.”
 
The devil is very much interested in you. I wants to get his hands on you. And what you have been indulging in thought will do it. I wouldn’t be your friend if I didn’t say this.

Start thinking about the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary. That is your hope to put your trust in them and read about them. They truely love you and are waiting for you to ask them. Throw youself on their mercy and love and they will remove these darts of Satan from you heart.

Noone prays and stays away. This is how it started with you, giving up prayer. And this is how you go back, starting prayer life. Start it with the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart. Just talk to them about anything, but talk. Put all this in their care and then you will see a change and your peace returning. Even in your sins, pray to them, tell them you haven’t forgotten them. They love you very much and just need to see that you want to open up your heart. Jesus said that he seeks all the lost lambs and puts them on his shoulder and carries them home. Talk to him and your mother Mary.

“You will show me the paths of life, the fullness of joy before your face, and delights at your right hand until the end of time.” Psalm 15
 
StudentMI said:
It hit me tonight. It wasn’t a huge emotional moment. I have been struggling with some thoughts lately, theological stuff about Satan and Hell. And I was just thinking about something and I said to myself, “I guess my faith is gone.” It was calm and just acknowledging what I felt and thought. I don’t feel happy or sad.

Basically my thoughts ran along the lines of “okay, I can see God creating people and wanting all to be saved, but respecting freedom to choose salvation or damnation, but why let Satan get involved just to send people to Hell? And why did God create Satan anyway, or allow him to live after the rebellion? And why did Satan rebel? And why did God allow all this seeing as how he knows how it all ends up, who goes where?” etc. It makes God look malevolent, to be frank. Like amputating someone’s limbs and then ordering them to run or you’ll kill them.

I don’t know what to think. But I don’t think I have any faith left.
Click to expand...
Just some thoughts…

the devil doesn’t “send” people to hell. As you described, we have free will. Everyone who is in hell chose it themselves. The devil didn’t “force” them into it, thankfully he doesn’t have power like that.

God created satan because he was first a good Angel. He didn’t make him like that. The devil decided to become who he is today. God didn’t annihilate the devil because that would imply that God’s Will changes, and that He can will to create an eternal being and then will something else. That is not possible… when God wills to create an eternal being, an eternal being begins to exist, eternally. It can’t ever be otherwise, which would imply God going back on His Will, which is not how His Will works. Once He wills something, it immediately happens.

the devil rebelled because of pride. He wanted self-will, rather than God’s Will, and he wanted to be like God. According to some Church traditions, the devil couldn’t take the idea that God would become Man, and would take a nature lower than angelic nature, and that He would be born of a human woman. The devil couldn’t accept that God would elevate human nature to such a degree because human nature is lower than angelic nature. This is all pride.

God permits us to be tempted in order to triumph over temptation and earn greater merit. This way, the devil’s work is conquered and good triumphs over evil. Meanwhile, He gives us everything we need to conquer temptation. We have sufficient grace.

Those who do not use this grace and who oppose it, those who still end up in hell, - that is not because God didn’t want to save them. They chose sin and unrepentance, freely
 
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