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slinky1882
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Is this famous line from Descartes “Discourse on Method” compatible with Catholic Tradition, yes or no??? And why???
Thanks (from a university student who is Catholic) and God Bless.
It is putting Descartes before D’horse.Is this famous line from Descartes “Discourse on Method” compatible with Catholic Tradition, yes or no??? And why???Thanks (from a university student who is Catholic) and God Bless.
Yes! That is all he was doing. He wasn’t saying that his thinking was the CAUSE of his existance! Please, Catholics, enlighten us. Why on Earth would the Church object to this?!?!But, wasn’t that line about proving Descarte’s own existance? Isn’t this how he logically concluded that he is indeed here?
I think “I AM” has kinda been reserved…though, I’m no expert on this, but as my earlier post mentioned JPII did address the matter, I just don’t remember the exact theological perspective…Yes! That is all he was doing. He wasn’t saying that his thinking was the CAUSE of his existance! Please, Catholics, enlighten us. Why on Earth would the Church object to this?!?!
Michael
Descartes was not claiming to be God, if that is what you are implying. (Though in the Meditations, he did very briefly consider the possibility, and then rejected it.) Infact, Descartes overcame his skepticism only by concluding that there was a God who wouldn’t decieve his creation.I think “I AM” has kinda been reserved…though, I’m no expert on this, but as my earlier post mentioned JPII did address the matter, I just don’t remember the exact theological perspective…
All of the rationalism of the last centuries–as much in its Anglo-Saxon expression as in its COntinental expression in Kantianism, Hegelianism, and the German philosophy of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries up to Husserl and Heidegger–can be considered a continuation and an expansion of Cartesian positions. The author of Meditationes de Prima Philosophia with his ontological proofs, distanced us from the philosophy of existence, and also from the traditional approaches of Saint Thomas which lead to God who is “autonomous existence,” Ipsum esse subsistens. By making subjective consciousness absolute, Descartes moves instead toward pure consciousness of the Absolute, which is pure thought. Such an Absolute is not autonomous existence but rather autonomous thought. Only that which corresponds to human thought makes sense. The objective truth of this thought is not as important as the fact that something exists in human consciousness.
We find ourselves on the threshold of modern immanentism and subjectivism. Descartes marks the beginning of the development of the exact and natural sciences as well as of the humanistic sciences in their new expression. He turns his back on the metaphysics and concetrates on the philosophy of knowledge. Kant is the most norable representative of this movement.
Earlier, he addresses Descartes even more pointedly:Though the father of modern rationalism certainly cannot be blamed for the move away from Christianity, it is difficult not to acknowledge that he created the climate in which, in the modern era, such an estrangement became possible. It did not happen right away, but gradually.
…Descartes, who split thought from existence and identified existence with reaon itself: "Cogito, ego sum" (“I think, therefore I am”).
That’s JP II, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, Alfred A. Knopf: New York, 1994: 38, 51-52.How different from the approach of Saint Thomas, for whom it is not thought which determines existence, but existence, esse," which determintes thought! I think the way I think because I am that which I am–a creature–and because He is He who is, the absolute uncreated Mystery. If He were not Mystery, there would be no need for Revelation, or, more precisely, there would be no need for God to reveal Himself.
Well put. I had never given Decartes famous quote a “thought” as to its validity until this thread and in conjunction with poor Terri’s death, and the likely hidden deaths of others like her.JP0,
The tragic irony is that you begin to see why Cartesian subjectivism belongs to the core of the Culture of Death. Schaivo–and all of the hundreds (thousands?) of other people who are starved to death–are regarded as non-beings, for their lack of cognition.
esse," which determintes thought! I think the way I think because I am that which I am–a creature–and because He is He who is, the absolute uncreated Mystery. If He were not Mystery, there would be no need for Revelation, or, more precisely, there would be no need for God to reveal Himself.He turns his back on the metaphysics and concetrates on the philosophy of knowledge…
How different from the approach of Saint Thomas, for whom it is not thought which determines existence, but existence,
No, you were right the first time. He was just trying to determine that he existed. This has NOTHING to do with who is human or important. Descartes wanted to know what he could be absolutely certain of; that meant, for a while, not assuming that the world he observed was real. His method was doubt, he ended up ‘proving’ to himself that God and the external world were real, and that he could know that they were real and mind independent.But, again, I didn’t think that it applied to all humans, just to Descarte’s who was rationalizing if he indeed was an entity at all (anybody who has ever questioned if they really are here does have a hard time concluding that they indeed are.) I don’t think that it was meant to determine who is human and who isn’t. …Is that what he was trying to do? Determine he was human?