I thought catholics ask saints to pray for them?

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rbarcia

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See, this is what I don’t get. On this forum I keep hearing catholics say you ask saints to pray for you.

CNN had this interesting article.

religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/05/john-paul-ii-could-move-toward-sainthood-this-year-report-says/?hpt=T2

Quote from the article
Medical and theological experts have credited John Paul II with the healing of a nun whose order prayed to him after he died in 2005. Sister Marie-Simon-Pierre says she was cured of Parkinson’s disease.
Click to expand...
Wouldn’t the credit be given to God?

Acts 3:16
And his name—by faith in his name—has made this man strong whom you see and know, and the faith that is through Jesus has given the man this perfect health in the presence of you all.
 
rbarcia said:
See, this is what I don’t get. On this forum I keep hearing catholics say you ask saints to pray for you.

CNN had this interesting article.

religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/05/john-paul-ii-could-move-toward-sainthood-this-year-report-says/?hpt=T2

Quote from the article

Wouldn’t the credit be given to God?

Acts 3:16
And his name—by faith in his name—has made this man strong whom you see and know, and the faith that is through Jesus has given the man this perfect health in the presence of you all.
Click to expand...
When Catholics pray to God, we may ask the Angles, Saints, or the Blessed Mother to pray for us to the Lord our God for specific intentions. An example may be that I have a sick child, I could ask the Angles, Saints, or the Blessed Mother to partition God on my behalf for healing of my sick child. With that said I will always ask the Lord our God first for that healing and then the Angles, Saints, or the Blessed Mother for them to pray also for that healing. In all cases, the answers to our prayers come from God and His will alone. What this is known as is intercessory prayers. I hope this helps.
 
We likewise credit St. Paul for his epistles, while nevertheless crediting the Holy Spirit as the principal author. We also credit doctors who save our lives while crediting the mercy and kindness of God who works through the doctors. God is jealous of other gods if we worship them instead of Him, but he is not jealous of his sons and daughters who work in the vineyard for Him and for love of His other children. God shares His very life in the Holy Spirit through His Son with all whom He draws near. The saints are such people with whom we recognize this gracious sharing of grace to work miracles for others. We ourselves share in the same graces, gifted by the Holy Spirit as much as we are called to share these gifts to others. All for the glory of God and the good of our neighbors.
 
rbarcia said:
See, this is what I don’t get. On this forum I keep hearing catholics say you ask saints to pray for you.

CNN had this interesting article.

religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/05/john-paul-ii-could-move-toward-sainthood-this-year-report-says/?hpt=T2

Quote from the article

Wouldn’t the credit be given to God?

Acts 3:16
And his name—by faith in his name—has made this man strong whom you see and know, and the faith that is through Jesus has given the man this perfect health in the presence of you all.
Click to expand...
Have you ever prayed for anyone?

If you want to learn the theology of the Catholic Church the cathecism is the best place to start. Trying to discern Catholic tehology from secualr news stories is not very productive.
 
Hey, rbarcia. I can understand your confusion. Secular news may not be the best way for you to understand Catholic beliefs, because most of the time the articles aren’t written by people well versed in the religion, and that, sadly, can create misunderstandings.

Anyway, what you’ve heard on this forum about Catholics asking saints to pray for them is correct. When we pray to a saint we are asking them to intercede on our behalf with God, who we hope and pray will grant our request. In that sense, we are not worshiping the saint in any sense, but doing something similar to what you would do if you knew someone who was sick and asked your friends and family members to pray for the sick person’s recovery. The major difference is that the saint is in Heaven, and so some sort of prayer is required to reach them with the request.

When God honors our request, we, therefore, tend to give the saint credit for successfully interceding for us, while praising God as the ultimate source of the miracle. We don’t worship anyone except God and all the praise and glory in the end are due to Him, but we do like to acknowledge those in Heaven who intercede on our behalf. In my mind, this acknowledgment doesn’t disrespect God, but actually is just another way of thanking Him for those who intercede for us.

Hope that helps a bit!
 
rbarcia said:
Wouldn’t the credit be given to God?
Click to expand...
Of course. Healing and blessing come from God and not from the intercessors. People (including the saints) who pray for us are petitioners - God’s people who petition to God for a favor. God delights in hearing the prayers of his people because that is his nature. He delights in our praises and our worship and our prayers.

We can pray to God on our own and he also listens to us too and may grant our request but God is also a God of his people, his flock.

So yes, all credit be given to God. That’s very Catholic. Catholics believe all the faithfuls of the Church are in one holy communion, these include the living and also those who have departed. They are one big family of God. So it is just like the children praying (asking) from the father. And it is the father because of his love for the children that grants their request according to his will and what is good for his children.

Therefore the father should get the credit as it is his decision alone. The children can only ask but the decision belong to the father. But if we who are human fathers can give good things to our children then what more to say about the Father in heaven who will give good things to those who ask?

But Scripture (St James) also say that the prayer of a righteous man is powerful. If through a prayer of an intercessor, and it can be established that God grants his wish, this would only acknowledge that the person is a righteous person. A righteous person would most probably when he dies be with the Father in heaven. We believe saints are in heaven. If a person is canonized as a saint it is only placing our faith in the truth of God who rewards righteous people.
 
rbarcia said:
See, this is what I don’t get. On this forum I keep hearing catholics say you ask saints to pray for you.

CNN had this interesting article.

religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/05/john-paul-ii-could-move-toward-sainthood-this-year-report-says/?hpt=T2

Quote from the article

Medical and theological experts have credited John Paul II with the healing of a nun whose order prayed to him after he died in 2005. Sister Marie-Simon-Pierre says she was cured of Parkinson’s disease.

Wouldn’t the credit be given to God?

Acts 3:16
And his name—by faith in his name—has made this man strong whom you see and know, and the faith that is through Jesus has given the man this perfect health in the presence of you all.
Click to expand...
how do you know that CNN told the truth maybe the person just asked for his intersession not really prayed to JPII

plus if you read revelations its clear that the saints have prayers that are brought to the alter so revelations back up saints intersessions or praying to them becuase all those prayers will go to Christ at his alter in heaven and ultimately to God becuase Jesus is the one mediator between God and man
 
one more thing thanks for posting this article I’m going to ask for the intersession of JPII cause my mom was just diagnosed with Parkinson’s
 
For all we know JPII is already a saint but that (I think) would mean he skipped Purgatory and went straight to Heaven. Making someone a saint here on earth is an official church proclamation, but we don’t know their standing in the eyes of the Lord. I feel if someone prays to someone like JPII and is cured because of it, then they must already be a saint. They just don’t have “saint” in front of their name here on earth. I know, clear as mud. I’m not good at explaining things. :o
 
People use sloppy language all the time. Plus the meaning of words subtly changes over time. The word “pray” in historically protestant America is usually defined as an act of worship in which one communicates with the Divine.

But look further back into less protestant history and you’ll see that the word ‘pray’ was not always defined so. An English peasant might have once spoken to his feudal lord like this “Pray, I beseech thee to allow me to deliver my grain quota in another fortnight.” In this sense, the word is used in a manner in which a ‘lesser’ person is respectfully addressing his ‘better.’

For protestants, prayer is the highest form of worship, so they are highly sensitive to perceived misuse of the word. For catholics, the offering of the Body and Blood of Christ in the timeless, once for all sacrifice of the mass is the highest form of worship. Catholics, especially in largely protestant countries, ought to be more clear in their language. But humans are inevitably sloppy. In any case, nobody is asserting that JPII has divine powers of his own and is independently capable of working miracles from beyond. By definition, the communion of saints is in communion with Christ and the miracles result from His power and Grace.
 
rbarcia said:
See, this is what I don’t get. On this forum I keep hearing catholics say you ask saints to pray for you.

CNN had this interesting article.

religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/05/john-paul-ii-could-move-toward-sainthood-this-year-report-says/?hpt=T2

Quote from the article

Wouldn’t the credit be given to God?

Acts 3:16
And his name—by faith in his name—has made this man strong whom you see and know, and the faith that is through Jesus has given the man this perfect health in the presence of you all.
Click to expand...
this is how Catholics are misunderstood. The media gives the impression that the healing was by the ‘power’ of John Paul II but Catholics understand that the healing was granted by God with the intercession of John Paul II.

At the wedding feast of Cana, Mary, the mother of Jesus, interceded for the wedding couple by telling Jesus they had no more wine for their guests. But the miracle was performed by Jesus.

When Catholics pray to Mary and the saints they are only asking those holy people to intercede for them. God is the only one who can make miracles.
 
vsedriver said:
this is how Catholics are misunderstood. The media gives the impression that the healing was by the ‘power’ of John Paul II but Catholics understand that the healing was granted by God with the intercession of John Paul II.

At the wedding feast of Cana, Mary, the mother of Jesus, interceded for the wedding couple by telling Jesus they had no more wine for their guests. But the miracle was performed by Jesus.

When Catholics pray to Mary and the saints they are only asking those holy people to intercede for them. God is the only one who can make miracles.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Now that I look at it, I should have been more specific in my post.
 
CatholicFireman said:
For all we know JPII is already a saint but that (I think) would mean he skipped Purgatory and went straight to Heaven. Making someone a saint here on earth is an official church proclamation, but we don’t know their standing in the eyes of the Lord. I feel if someone prays to someone like JPII and is cured because of it, then they must already be a saint. They just don’t have “saint” in front of their name here on earth. I know, clear as mud. I’m not good at explaining things. :o
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how many miracles does JPII have so far
 
I asked my friend ByzCath. I let you know what he says (that is, if he doesn’t post here).
 
catholictiger said:
according to this site he is pope venerable john paul II

saints.sqpn.com/pope-venerable-john-paul-ii/
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Looks like JP II is still Venerable, not yet Blessed which is the next step, once the miracles of his intercession are verified. After additional verified miracles, he will be canonized to sainthood.

Have you seen trailers for upcoming movie “The Rite”? This is based on a book of the same title. I read the book and in one of the exorcism accounts, JP II comes down, together with some saints, to pray for a victim’s release from the devil. I wonder if this or how will it be portrayed in the movie.
 
pablope said:
Looks like JP II is still Venerable, not yet Blessed which is the next step, once the miracles of his intercession are verified. After additional verified miracles, he will be canonized to sainthood.

Have you seen trailers for upcoming movie “The Rite”? This is based on a book of the same title. I read the book and in one of the exorcism accounts, JP II comes down, together with some saints, to pray for a victim’s release from the devil. I wonder if this or how will it be portrayed in the movie.
Click to expand...
we seem to be getting way off topic but is that book very catholic I was considering seeing that movie
 
I love that book! I didn’t know they were making a movie out of it. I’ll have to look up the trailers.
 
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