I thought I was attending MASS

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sseason

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Hello everyone,
This morning I thought I would get an extra weekday Mass in, so I went to the 7am. I live in St. Louis. A Catholic populated city. When the “service” started, two woman walked out. No priest. I thought maybe the priest was running late. But no, a priest never came. One of the women, who I would guess was a nun stood behind the altar and said the words the priest would say. She did not proceed into the consecration (thank God) but she said pretty much everything else. She read the Gospel and said a short homily. Both women distributed communion.
Afterwords I asked someone what was going on and she said that Father was on vacation and that he will be back next week. And that this was a “communion service”.

**Is something wrong here? Is this against Canon Law? **I am new to this parish so I don’t want to cause unnecessary trouble but at the same time if there is something against the Church here, I would like to speak up.

Does anyone have the facts handy? I know that distributing communion is ok for a Eucharistic minister and maybe some sort of communion service, if necessary. But this is St. Louis, there are plenty of priests here. I guess I’m just looking for the facts. Any help?
 
Communion Services in the absence of a priest are not contrary to Canon Law at all - it would seem to me that every EMHC who brings communion to the sick and housebound can in effect celebrate in this way, time permitting. It would probably be beneficial to the recepients if they DID do so!

My understanding is that they are not supposed to regularly occur - except on Sundays in cases where priests are regulary unavailable, but that there is no Canon law against celebrating them even so. And this was a temporary measure whilst the priest was away, in any case. So while not being the most desirable state of events, I’d say it’s well and truly kosher.

I’m sure I’ll soon be corrected if any of what I’ve said is wrong.
 
I agree with Lily that if a priest is unavailable, on vacation perhaps, and maybe the priest who is covering had to run out for an unavoidable emergency (i.e., Anointing of the Sick, last rites), then a Communion Service is okay in place of a weekday Mass. But, since I am from St. Louis, I know of one parish that still claims to be Catholic and is not (and another that constantly pushes boundaries). If I were you, I would check the Archdiocese of St. Louis website to be sure you are attending a Catholic parish archstl.org .
 
One thing to remember about a Communion Service is that it should be used only as a last resort, not as the norm. I hope the priest of that parish at least attempted to get another priest to fill in for him, especially on the weekend and that they simply cancelled most of the weekday Masses.

You don’t get the same graces with a communion service as you would with Mass, obviously.
 
Here is what Redemptionis Sacramentum has to say on the matter:
[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday. Priests are therefore earnestly requested to celebrate Mass daily for the people in one of the churches entrusted to their care.
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These really should not be done during the week. What should have been done was to get another priest to celebrate Mass, have Liturgy of the Hours or just not have anything. What is worrisome is that if a stipend for the Mass intention was paid by the faithful requesting it, the parish should make provisions to refund that money to the person.

The woman leading the service should not have offered a “homily”. Hopefully, the priest checked out what she was going to say. Another thing is that she should not have been at the altar at all, unless it comes time for the Pater Noster and the Agnus Dei. I hope she was not sitting at the presidential chair because that is a no-no.
 
SwizzleStick said:
I agree with Lily that if a priest is unavailable, on vacation perhaps, and maybe the priest who is covering had to run out for an unavoidable emergency (i.e., Anointing of the Sick, last rites), then a Communion Service is okay in place of a weekday Mass. But, since I am from St. Louis, I know of one parish that still claims to be Catholic and is not (and another that constantly pushes boundaries). If I were you, I would check the Archdiocese of St. Louis website to be sure you are attending a Catholic parish archstl.org .
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Please disregard my post above regarding the communion service. I offered my opinion, without any facts or canon law to back it up and I think I should clarify that I thought a CS was okay in place of a weekday Mass, but with a contradictory post, now I am not sure. 😊 However, I would still go to the Archdiocese of St. Louis website to be sure that your parish is actually a Catholic parish.
 
A Communion service when there is no priest available for weekday mass is a common occurrence in this area - e.g. the week the priests are on retreat… However, I hear that it is disapproved of and will hopefully be phased out over time. I haven’t seen anything in that direction except some talk.

It is permitted for the one who conducts such a service to give a reflection on the readings. Preferably it will be cleared with the pastor. Personally, I like to use the second reading from the Office of Readings for that day for either a Communion Service or Morning Prayer.
 
benedictgal said:
Here is what Redemptionis Sacramentum has to say on the matter:

These really should not be done during the week. What should have been done was to get another priest to celebrate Mass, have Liturgy of the Hours or just not have anything. What is worrisome is that if a stipend for the Mass intention was paid by the faithful requesting it, the parish should make provisions to refund that money to the person.

The woman leading the service should not have offered a “homily”. Hopefully, the priest checked out what she was going to say. Another thing is that she should not have been at the altar at all, unless it comes time for the Pater Noster and the Agnus Dei. I hope she was not sitting at the presidential chair because that is a no-no.
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Thank you (and all) for info and thoughts. I don’t know the whole circumstance of course, but I just find it really difficult to believe that another priest could not be found. And I agree with the other posters that I think this is only done in imergency situations.

To put your mind at ease…she did not sit in the priests chair.

The fact that this was the day I finally made it out of bed to get to a weekday Mass just tells my heart that this is something that I need to pray for.

May God’s Will be done. LETS ALL PRAY FOR MORE PRIESTS WHILE WE’RE AT IT! 🙂

Peace!
 
sseason said:
Hello everyone,
This morning I thought I would get an extra weekday Mass in, so I went to the 7am. I live in St. Louis. A Catholic populated city. When the “service” started, two woman walked out. No priest. I thought maybe the priest was running late. But no, a priest never came. One of the women, who I would guess was a nun stood behind the altar and said the words the priest would say. She did not proceed into the consecration (thank God) but she said pretty much everything else. She read the Gospel and said a short homily. Both women distributed communion.
Afterwords I asked someone what was going on and she said that Father was on vacation and that he will be back next week. And that this was a “communion service”.

**Is something wrong here? Is this against Canon Law? **I am new to this parish so I don’t want to cause unnecessary trouble but at the same time if there is something against the Church here, I would like to speak up.

Does anyone have the facts handy? I know that distributing communion is ok for a Eucharistic minister and maybe some sort of communion service, if necessary. But this is St. Louis, there are plenty of priests here. I guess I’m just looking for the facts. Any help?
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No nothing wrong, Father must have left for vacation unexpectedly or forgot to tell someone before hand, and no one had time to publish an announcement that Fr. would be gone and that there would be no weekday Mass this week!
 
Joe_Kelley said:
A Communion service when there is no priest available for weekday mass is a common occurrence in this area - e.g. the week the priests are on retreat… However, I hear that it is disapproved of and will hopefully be phased out over time. I haven’t seen anything in that direction except some talk.

It is permitted for the one who conducts such a service to give a reflection on the readings. Preferably it will be cleared with the pastor. Personally, I like to use the second reading from the Office of Readings for that day for either a Communion Service or Morning Prayer.
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Joe, please see my initial post in this thread where I cite Redemptionis Sacramentum. It indicates that this really should not be happening during the week.

If the priests are on retreat, then gather for LOTH or find a church that will have Mass. When our priests went on retreat, I went to parishes run by religious orders and to one where the lone diocesan priest stayed behind.
 
Our daily Masses are always cancelled when the priests are all away. Thankfully we seem to always have a visiting priest or a priest in residence, so even when the regular priests are in retreat, we have someone to say Mass.
 
Sr_Sally said:
Our daily Masses are always cancelled when the priests are all away. Thankfully we seem to always have a visiting priest or a priest in residence, so even when the regular priests are in retreat, we have someone to say Mass.
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Our priests were away for the last two weeks of June. Pastor is away until end of July. For the two weeks they were both out Masses were cancelled. We had “Sunday Celebrations of the Word with Communion” on both Sundays, nothing on weekdays.

The sad part is that that the parish coordinators had decided they didn’t want to pay the money required to bring in a priest for the 2 weeks we’d be priestless. Then, when faced with the possibility that one of them & I would be doing funeral liturgies if the need arose, they decided that although it wasn’t worth spending the money to have Mass on Sundays they would bring in a priest for any funeral that happened to come along.
 
sseason said:
Hello everyone,
This morning I thought I would get an extra weekday Mass in, so I went to the 7am. I live in St. Louis. A Catholic populated city. When the “service” started, two woman walked out. No priest. I thought maybe the priest was running late. But no, a priest never came. One of the women, who I would guess was a nun stood behind the altar and said the words the priest would say. She did not proceed into the consecration (thank God) but she said pretty much everything else. She read the Gospel and said a short homily. Both women distributed communion.
Afterwords I asked someone what was going on and she said that Father was on vacation and that he will be back next week. And that this was a “communion service”.

**Is something wrong here? Is this against Canon Law? **I am new to this parish so I don’t want to cause unnecessary trouble but at the same time if there is something against the Church here, I would like to speak up.

Does anyone have the facts handy? I know that distributing communion is ok for a Eucharistic minister and maybe some sort of communion service, if necessary. But this is St. Louis, there are plenty of priests here. I guess I’m just looking for the facts. Any help?
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No, this sort of thing should not be happening. “Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest” are permitted, but only on Sundays, and only if a priest is truly unavailable, and only with the express permission of the local bishop. There is no provision in Church practice for such services to happen on weekdays, unless the situation is truly dire and there is no priest available both on the Sunday before and the Sunday after the weekdays (see Benedictgal’s quote from RS).

See also Ecclesiae de mysterio

Article 7

Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest
  1. In some places in the absence of priests or deacons, non-ordained members of the faithful lead Sunday celebrations. In many instances, much good derives for the local community from this useful and delicate service when it is discharged in accordance with the spirit and the specific norms issued by the competent ecclesiastical authority. A special mandate of the Bishop is necessary for the non-ordained members of the faithful to lead such celebrations. This mandate should contain specific instructions with regard to the term of applicability, the place and conditions in which it is operative, as well as indicate the priest responsible for overseeing these celebrations.
  2. It must be clearly understood that such celebrations are temporary solutions and the text used at them must be approved by the competent ecclesiastical authority. The practice of inserting into such celebrations elements proper to the Holy Mass is prohibited. So as to avoid causing error in the minds of the faithful, the use of the eucharistic prayers, even in narrative form, at such celebrations is forbidden. For the same reasons, it should be emphasised for the benefit of those participating, that such celebrations cannot substitute for the eucharistic Sacrifice and that the obligation to attend Mass on Sunday and Holy days is satisfied only by attendance at Holy Mass. In cases where distance or physical conditions are not an obstacle, every effort should be made to encourage and assist the faithful to fulfil this precept.
 
In other words, it is up to the diocesan bishop to authorize such services, while it is up to the residents of Catholic Answers Forums to decide that they are more knowledgeable than the bishop about the issue.

Sorry guys (and gals), “must not easily grant permission” is not the same thing as “must not grant permission at all”.
 
Just_Lurking said:
In other words, it is up to the diocesan bishop to authorize such services, while it is up to the residents of Catholic Answers Forums to decide that they are more knowledgeable than the bishop about the issue.

Sorry guys (and gals), “must not easily grant permission” is not the same thing as “must not grant permission at all”.
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Perhaps you might need to re-read the quote from Redemptionis Sacramentum that I posted and what Fr. David posted. Furthermore, these kind of things should not be happening on a weekday. The parish has to have a compelling reason as to why this should be happening. Even my parochial vicar is not keen on having these things happen when the priests are away.

Pope Benedict XVI made reference to communion services in Sacramentum Caritatis:
I reiterate that only Ordinaries may grant the faculty of distributing holy communion in such liturgies, taking account of the need for a certain selectiveness. Furthermore, care should be taken that these assemblies do not create confusion about the central role of the priest and the sacraments in the life of the Church. The importance of the role given to the laity, who should rightly be thanked for their generosity in the service of their communities, must never obscure the indispensable ministry of priests for the life of the Church. (213) Hence care must be taken to ensure that such assemblies in the absence of a priest do not encourage ecclesiological visions incompatible with the truth of the Gospel and the Church’s tradition. Rather, they should be privileged moments of prayer for God to send holy priests after His own heart.
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He uses the phrase “certain selectiveness” and states that these type of activites not create confusion.

Unfortunately, there have been instances when Ordinaries have gone against Rome. For example, Pope John Paul II had to take the Australian bishops conference to the sacramental woodshed when they grossly misapplied general absolution. Evidently, week-day communion services were a problem to the point that RS had to make a statement about them.
 
benedictgal said:
Perhaps you might need to re-read the quote from Redemptionis Sacramentum that I posted and what Fr. David posted. Furthermore, these kind of things should not be happening on a weekday. The parish has to have a compelling reason as to why this should be happening. Even my parochial vicar is not keen on having these things happen when the priests are away.

Pope Benedict XVI made reference to communion services in Sacramentum Caritatis:

He uses the phrase “certain selectiveness” and states that these type of activites not create confusion.

Unfortunately, there have been instances when Ordinaries have gone against Rome. For example, Pope John Paul II had to take the Australian bishops conference to the sacramental woodshed when they grossly misapplied general absolution. Evidently, week-day communion services were a problem to the point that RS had to make a statement about them.
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Thank you for the quote from Pote Benedict. This service definately created confusion. If someone who isn’t Catholic or was becoming a Catholic happened to attend on this day, it would have completely confused them. A woman was behind the altar, no priest in site and not a word was said as to why this was happening.

Thanks again to others who posted quotes. 🙂
 
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