I Thought Priests Had The Authority To Forgive All Sins

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The pope said he would grant all Catholic priests temporary authority to “absolve of the sin of abortion those who have procured it and who, with contrite heart, seek forgiveness for it.” Can someone explain what this mean?
 
The_Wizard said:
The pope said he would grant all Catholic priests temporary authority to “absolve of the sin of abortion those who have procured it and who, with contrite heart, seek forgiveness for it.” Can someone explain what this mean?
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Hello,

I’ll just paste in here what I said in another thread:

It would perhaps be better if the Pope maintained an appropriate distinction between sins and penalties. Just because a person commits a sin such as abortion does not mean she is certainly excommunicated.

You are correct that a priest can forgive any sin (with one exception–he can’t forgive an accomplice’s sin against the 6th Commandment) if the penitent is contrite.

Penalties, such as excommunication, are a different matter and the priest is typically not able to remit/pardon excommunications entirely on his own authority. With the (canonical) crime of abortion, it is common for priests to be given the authority to pardon the excommunication.

Even though the Pope (here and elsewhere) has only spoken of the “sin” of abortion, it seems clear that he is addressing the penalty.

That being said, the Eastern Catholic Churches do have a notion of “reserved sins” and abortion is one of them that is reserved to the eparchial bishop. The Pope is addressing his remarks to all Catholic priests, East and West, so his use of terminology is more conducive to the Eastern perspective.

Dan

P.S. Dr. Ed Peters has a new post on this topic and it’s worth reading: canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2015/09/01/pope-francis-on-reconciliation-for-abortion/
 
After reading the article by Dr. Peters I am more confused. Crime and sin? Automatic excommunications?
 
The_Wizard said:
After reading the article by Dr. Peters I am more confused. Crime and sin? Automatic excommunications?
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Yes, it’s not easy to understand. Let’s try to work through it.

Sin is one thing. It is an offense against God.

Crime is another thing. It is the violation of a law which can result in a punishment.

In the Church, there are some sins which are also crimes. If a Catholic commits a sin which is also a crime, he can be punished with a penalty such as excommunication.

For example, fornication is a sin. If a cleric commits that sin in a public and continual manner, he can be guilty of a crime as well as a sin. Another example: sacrilege is a sin. We cannot treat holy things with disrespect. If someone commits sacrilege against the Eucharist, he commits a sin and can be guilty of a crime.

In the latter case, the crime of desecration of the Eucharist brings with it an automatic penalty of excommunication.

There are different ways of explaining these things. If this didn’t work we can try something else. Please ask specific questions, if you have them…or else we might get way off track.

Dan
 
OK, I get the crime/sin thing. I guess my problem is with the automatic excommunication thing. I don’t have a problem with The Church’s authority to excommunicate someone but I wonder how many people know it is automatic for having an abortion and that going to confession won’t solve the problem (up till now)?
 
The_Wizard said:
OK, I get the crime/sin thing. I guess my problem is with the automatic excommunication thing. I don’t have a problem with The Church’s authority to excommunicate someone but I wonder how many people know it is automatic for having an abortion and that going to confession won’t solve the problem (up till now)?
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Well, in the US, most if not all bishops already gave the priests of their dioceses the authority to absolve the sin and (do whatever the correct term is) to the excommunication.

I would imagine that in other countries where that is not the case, you would at least find it out when you went to Confession and the priest told you, but Catholic people in general might have an increased awareness of it there that we do not have here, because it applies to them and doesn’t apply to us.

I’m just guessing, though.

–Jen
 
The_Wizard said:
OK, I get the crime/sin thing. I guess my problem is with the automatic excommunication thing. I don’t have a problem with The Church’s authority to excommunicate someone but I wonder how many people know it is automatic for having an abortion and that going to confession won’t solve the problem (up till now)?
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The law is very clear with regards to ignorance and penalties. Ignorance that the sin carries a penalty does not incur a penalty.

If someone participated in an abortion not knowing it was excommunicable, but despite knowing it was still gravely sinful (hardly anyone can claim ignorance of at least this), he still incurs mortal sin, but not excommunication. He can therefore still be absolved.

If they knew that it WAS excommunicable and did it anyway, they incur the penalty. Excommunicated people cannot receive any sacraments, even absolution, validly. The penalty would need to be lifted first then the penitent absolved. This is what the news is about. The Pope has extended this faculty to lift the penalty to all priests. In the U.S. at least, bishops have tended provide this faculty to their priests automatically.
 
This came as a shock to me, as I thought priests could theoretically absolve any sin.

Am I to understand this is a “temporary” position (for those outside the US) that will go back into effect after a period of time?

Also - & I apologize if this is a bit OT - what is the definition of someone with “direct participation”? The mother, obviously. A Catholic dr? The father, if he knew about the abortion but did not object?
 
SMH_2015 said:
This came as a shock to me, as I thought priests could theoretically absolve any sin.

Am I to understand this is a “temporary” position (for those outside the US) that will go back into effect after a period of time?

Also - & I apologize if this is a bit OT - what is the definition of someone with “direct participation”? The mother, obviously. A Catholic dr? The father, if he knew about the abortion but did not object?
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Assuming knowledge of the penalty was there:
The first two, definitely. Mother and doctor.
The father, not necessarily. Possibly, if he ACTIVELY encouraged the abortion, such as through persuasion or force.
The one who drives the mother to the abortion clinic specifically for this purpose.
And possibly others.
 
On a similar note, does murder carry a “penalty” of automatic excommunication?
 
I’m glad someone asked the question because I was really confused.

Especially after I watched the nightly news on a mainstream channel.

They made it sound like because of this the church was “entering the modern era” and that this was “something new”. Though, I couldn’t figure out what the “new part” was given that we have confession and that we have ministries like Rachel’s vineyard which specifically help women and men who have been impacted by abortion.

Also, we were never taught that abortion could lead to excommunication in our RCIA classes. Ever. So, that’s news to me. (I’m in the US).

So, it’s new for the churches that haven’t been given authority to do this in the past.

But, it’s really not new for every parish, but an extension of something that has been working in other areas.

Ok - that explains why I was confused because the mainstream channel acted like this was new for every Catholic, everywhere.
 
SMH_2015 said:
This came as a shock to me, as I thought priests could theoretically absolve any sin.

Am I to understand this is a “temporary” position (for those outside the US) that will go back into effect after a period of time?

Also - & I apologize if this is a bit OT - what is the definition of someone with “direct participation”? The mother, obviously. A Catholic dr? The father, if he knew about the abortion but did not object?
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Hello,

Priests will continue to have the ability to forgive this sin, as they always have. The “faculty” to pardon an excommunication is a different issue. Bishops can decide to grant the faculty, if they want.

“Direct participation” is seen as “necessary cooperation” in the sense that without that person’s help, the offense would not have been committed (see canon 1329.2). The father who simply “does not object” is not a necessary cooperator. It still may well be sinful, even mortally, though.

Dan
 
The_Wizard said:
On a similar note, does murder carry a “penalty” of automatic excommunication?
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No. It is thought that the state is quite diligent in appropriately punishing that crime. Nevertheless, ecclesiastical penalties can also be applied…but not excommunication (see c. 1397).

Dan
 
The_Wizard said:
On a similar note, does murder carry a “penalty” of automatic excommunication?
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No.

I believe here are only 8 acts that include the penalty of an “automatic” (latæ sententi**æ) excommunication:
  • Apostasy, heresy, schism (Can 1364§1)
  • Eucharistic Sacrilege (Can 1367)
  • Attacking the pope (Can 1370§1)
  • Absolving an accomplice in a sexual sin (Can 1378§1)
  • Consecrating a bishop without authorization (Can 1382)
  • Violating the seal of confession (Can 1388§1)
  • Procuring or direct participation in an abortion (Can 1398)
  • Attempted to confer Holy Orders on a woman or a women attempting to receive Holy Orders (Decree issued by the Congregation for Religious Doctrine 2008)
There may be others but those are the ones I have squirreled away in my notes.
 
SMH_2015 said:
This came as a shock to me, as I thought priests could theoretically absolve any sin.

Am I to understand this is a “temporary” position (for those outside the US) that will go back into effect after a period of time?

Also - & I apologize if this is a bit OT - what is the definition of someone with “direct participation”? The mother, obviously. A Catholic dr? The father, if he knew about the abortion but did not object?
Click to expand...
Also, priests must have faculties in the territory, to absolve sins (other than the extreme case at the point of death).
 
Quoted from Ed Peters canon law blog:

"A) I think the pope’s statement reflects a mistaken assumption, common among those who were trained under the 1917 Code, that priests with normal faculties for Confession still cannot absolve from the sin (let alone from the crime) of abortion. I and others, however, hold that all priests with faculties can absolve from this sin. The pope’s comments resolve this debate admirably (at least for the period of the Jubilee Year) as I happen to think it should be resolved.

B) The pope’s statement seems to assume that the sin of abortion and the crime of abortion are concomitant realities. I, however, and I’ll wager nearly all other experts, hold sin to be distinguishable from crime, and that this crime is rarely, if ever, committed by women (again, as opposed to abortionists)."

In sum, it appears that the Pope’s recent statement merely reaffirms the existing long standing practice in most parts of the world.
 
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