I want to be "catholic" with a small "c"

[Mystical_Seeker]

If Catholic with a capital “C” means I’m a member of the Roman Catholic Church, this is nothing of my doing. I was baptized into the Church when I was a baby.

But what about developing a “lower case ‘c’ heart” whereby all are equally welcome? When I see stranger and friend, well-dressed and shabby, “attractive” or “unpleasant” to my eye, can I feel just as much a sibling in Christ to each of them, regardless of what label my eyes want to apply? Do I see Christ in others? In the priest? In a homeless person? In an angry person? “Traditional” or “Progressive” Catholics? Daily Mass v Christmas Catholics?

To me, being “catholic” sounds like a great milestone, toward being the best “Catholic” I can be.

If all the “descriptive labels” were just descriptions and not judgments of our hearts, that would even help. That was something Jesus really harped on, is that group labels do not lead to spiritual justification.

MS

 

[Dorothy]

If Catholic with a capital “C” means I’m a member of the Roman Catholic Church, this is nothing of my doing. I was baptized into the Church when I was a baby.

But what about developing a “lower case ‘c’ heart” whereby all are equally welcome? When I see stranger and friend, well-dressed and shabby, “attractive” or “unpleasant” to my eye, can I feel just as much a sibling in Christ to each of them, regardless of what label my eyes want to apply? Do I see Christ in others? In the priest? In a homeless person? In an angry person? “Traditional” or “Progressive” Catholics? Daily Mass v Christmas Catholics?

To me, being “catholic” sounds like a great milestone, toward being the best “Catholic” I can be.

If all the “descriptive labels” were just descriptions and not judgments of our hearts, that would even help. That was something Jesus really harped on, is that group labels do not lead to spiritual justification.

MS

There truly are “upper case C” Catholics who are doing what you mention above.

And, yes, there are those who have some knowledge of the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church they were baptized in, (upper case C" Catholics) but due to poor catechesis, lack of good example, family abuse, and also being unresponsive to the graces the Lord is offering them, are indifferent to the faith.

Look to the saints! They are examples for us. Most of them had to turn their lives around from the self-indulgence they were living in and seeking! With God all things are possible. We have prayer and the sacraments given to us to change our lives and be more Christ-like every day.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

There truly are “upper case C” Catholics who are doing what you mention above.

And, yes, there are those who have some knowledge of the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church they were baptized in, (upper case C" Catholics) but due to poor catechesis, lack of good example, family abuse, and also being unresponsive to the graces the Lord is offering them, are indifferent to the faith.

Look to the saints! They are examples for us. Most of them had to turn their lives around from the self-indulgence they were living in and seeking! With God all things are possible. We have prayer and the sacraments given to us to change our lives and be more Christ-like every day.

Absolutely!

 

[Emily2014]

If Catholic with a capital “C” means I’m a member of the Roman Catholic Church, this is nothing of my doing. I was baptized into the Church when I was a baby.
But what about developing a “lower case ‘c’ heart” whereby all are equally welcome? When I see stranger and friend, well-dressed and shabby, “attractive” or “unpleasant” to my eye, can I feel just as much a sibling in Christ to each of them, regardless of what label my eyes want to apply? Do I see Christ in others? In the priest? In a homeless person? In an angry person? “Traditional” or “Progressive” Catholics? Daily Mass v Christmas Catholics?
To me, being “catholic” sounds like a great milestone, toward being the best “Catholic” I can be.
If all the “descriptive labels” were just descriptions and not judgments of our hearts, that would even help. That was something Jesus really harped on, is that group labels do not lead to spiritual justification.MS

Loving and touching post - well done.

 

[Praedicare]

In my opinion, we moderns make way too much of a distinction between Big-X and small-x. Whether in politics, or religion, or any other arena, one ought to have the courage of one’s official convictions (Big-X) as well as an inner life that really lives it out in reality (small-x). To be a "C"atholic is ultimately to be "c"atholic. We must confess the fulness of truth that is our Faith, yet that does not stop us from loving pagans, infidels, heretics, schismatics, and atheists.

Kindness, meekness, gentleness, patience, and mercy are not qualities that would have us avoid calling out things as they are. One can quite naturally be quite disgusted by the stench of a homeless person or the noise made by the mentally-retarded. Why should that emotional repulsion make us feel as if we can’t love them in word & deed? True Christian Love does not abrogate titles & labels - though it does often ignore them for the sake of charity.

I do wish we could get over the Big-X/small-X distinction. You’re a Catholic, so be catholic. Period. MS, you seem to dislike the idea of treating others differently with regards to labels & titles, but what about fellow Catholics - let alone yourself ? By making a distinction between “Big-C” and “small-c”, you’re still abiding by the labels which you are telling us to ignore. Do not remove the integral, unitive aspect of titles, labels, names, and facts. That’s nominalism. You’re Catholic, so act like a catholic. Philosophizing about Big & small distinctions really is just silly.

(I do agree with you btw, just not with the way in which you presented it).

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

To be a "C"atholic is ultimately to be "c"atholic. We must confess the fulness of truth that is our Faith, yet that does not stop us from loving pagans, infidels, heretics, schismatics, and atheists.

Yes, I think you have stated this well.

Kindness, meekness, gentleness, patience, and mercy are not qualities that would have us avoid calling out things as they are.

I’m not sure what you mean by calling things out as they are? For example, I see a great deal of “Capital C” clinging, even as we find ways to divide ourselves from even those who are legitimately “C” but other “C’s” seem to think there are varying degrees. Just like any egoic trip to line everyone up greatest to least. Jesus says their thinking is backwards at best, and misses the point.

The Good Samaritan story all by itself shows that producing fruit of the spirit and doing acts of mercy, are not always correlated with religious group identification.

I identify as “Capital C” for several reasons, including that’s what the Church teaches I am.

But I don’t consider that of any merit. My merit is what I might do for God, either through or inspired by what I gain from the Church, who is my shepherd not my identity.

One can quite naturally be quite disgusted by the stench of a homeless person or the noise made by the mentally-retarded. Why should that emotional repulsion make us feel as if we can’t love them in word & deed? True Christian Love does not abrogate titles & labels - though it does often ignore them for the sake of charity.

Honestly when it comes to corporal works of mercy I have to hand it to people who do greater than I can. I do what I can but frankly the Church is doing so much and not just Catholics in our city but they coordinate volunteers from across the city and many religions to help. So we do great actual works of mercy IMO, as a people. That’s one of our strengths.

But spiritual works of mercy? I love them and I can do them without spending any moeny or straining any muscles except to type like I am now. We can do all of them over the Internet, so my being disabled doesn’t stand in the way but enables me.

I do wish we could get over the Big-X/small-X distinction. You’re a Catholic, so be catholic. Period.

Yes, I am Catholic. I intend to try to be “catholic.”

By any prediction of the saints, the vast majority of us will not “find the narrow path.”

MS, you seem to dislike the idea of treating others differently with regards to labels & titles, but what about fellow Catholics - let alone yourself ?

I treat people differently based on how the spirit moves me to handle their persona as they make themselves known to me. If they want to come on like my judge, teacher, or superior, I will demand they will answer my questions before I accept their authority.

Seriously. Any poll would show that your average Joe Pew Sitter is hardly in line with Catholic teachings. Does that mean Joe is not Catholic? NO!!! It means that Joe’s ideas are not in alignment with the Church.

By making a distinction between “Big-C” and “small-c”, you’re still abiding by the labels which you are telling us to ignore. Do not remove the integral, unitive aspect of titles, labels, names, and facts. That’s nominalism.

Those are some interesting points. I’m not agreeing, but I like where they are taking my thoughts.

Edit: OK you win. I’m dividing people to tell them to quit dividing people. Hahahaha

You’re Catholic, so act like a catholic. Philosophizing about Big & small distinctions really is just silly.

No it isn’t. Nyaa nyaa. You lose now you have to wear the dunce cap.

Philosophizing about Big and small distinctions is silly, unless there is a master like myself actively involved in keeping sanity in the discussion. Then we cut through centuries of nonsense and get to what is salient… :nunchuk:

And you are part of it. Do not deny you are being used even now as a tool of the Holy Spirit, to be the typing hands that bring my soul some peace and even amusement where just five minutes ago was ego posturing and serious. :heaven:

(I do agree with you btw, just not with the way in which you presented it).

We’re all on the same team. Thanks for reminding me not to take perceived “divisions” to heart.

Guess I’m still not completely over my own “heart surgery,” eh?

MS

 

[27lw]

If Catholic with a capital “C” means I’m a member of the Roman Catholic Church, this is nothing of my doing. I was baptized into the Church when I was a baby.

But what about developing a “lower case ‘c’ heart” whereby all are equally welcome? When I see stranger and friend, well-dressed and shabby, “attractive” or “unpleasant” to my eye, can I feel just as much a sibling in Christ to each of them, regardless of what label my eyes want to apply? Do I see Christ in others? In the priest? In a homeless person? In an angry person? “Traditional” or “Progressive” Catholics? Daily Mass v Christmas Catholics?

If all the “descriptive labels” were just descriptions and not judgments of our hearts, that would even help. That was something Jesus really harped on, is that group labels do not lead to spiritual justification.

MS

What? Why do you assume that all “upper case C” Catholics are so judgmental and evil? Why do you assume you are so much better than the “upper case C” Catholics?
Why do you think you know the hearts of “upper case C” Catholics?
Why are you sewing discord among your Catholic brothers and sisters?

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

What? Why do you assume that all “upper case C” Catholics are so judgmental and evil? Why do you assume you are so much better than the “upper case C” Catholics?

Why do you state that I have assumed these things?

There are examples every day on these forums of what I would consider “upper case ‘C’ clinging.”

The other day a person couldn’t stop telling me I wasn’t “really Catholic” because I did agree with his incorrect version of what the Church teaches. That is what I mean. The Catholic Church says that I am “Catholic” because I was baptized into the Church, and that I shall remain regardless even of renouncing my faith or excommunication.

I may not be an “active Catholic” but I am not a “non-Catholic.” Actually, though, I am an active Catholic.

So yeah, maybe this is a rant about people who challenge my self-identification in my profile as “Catholic” when I’m no more or less Catholic than they are, because they don’t think I understand and adhere to the Catholic teachings as well as they do.

Why do you think you know the hearts of “upper case C” Catholics?

Because I am one.

Why are you sewing discord among your Catholic brothers and sisters?

That wasn’t my intent. Do you see pointing out my heartfelt observations about the Church I love, as “sewing discord?”

Why are you challenging me? You have told me even what I must assume so you have read my mind. Who are you to tell me that I’m sewing discord?

Remember Jesus came to divide, not unite. That would be to divide Truth from Fiction, among other things. The harvest is ready so become a harvester if you wish, and join me in seeking Truth and standing up for all the “Capital C’s” who are judged as inferior by other “Capital C’s” in prayer and unity, even if I’m personally the transgressor from time to time.

Thank you for the insightful and heartfelt response.

Peace and unity in our “Both cases of C” group we both aspire to be in.

MS

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Terms I’m offering:

Catholic = member of RCC.

active Catholic = member of RCC who at least is up to date vis-à-vis following the precepts of the Church.

catholic = universal = :grouphug:

Is that simpler?

MS

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

There are only two types of Catholic-> faithful and unfaithful. Those who are faithful attend Mass every Sunday, follow the Church’s precepts and laws, as well as believe all the Church’s dogmas, and accept all Her doctrines on faith and morals. We all must be faithful Catholics.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

There are only two types of Catholic-> faithful and unfaithful. Those who are faithful attend Mass every Sunday, follow the Church’s precepts and laws, as well as believe all the Church’s dogmas, and accept all Her doctrines on faith and morals. We all must be faithful Catholics.

May I propose your measurement as an analog mix, rather than a “dualistic” either/or situation?

Like that “faithful” comes in many strengths and flavors, and some stand up better under some conditions than others.

Because believing everything means nothing without love, as 1 Cor 13 clearly states – the “love” chapter read at so many weddings . So believing and accepting are not sufficient. Neither even is good behavior. These may be elements of faith, but it’s the love itself that brings meaning to any of it.

Plus it is of course obvious that going to church “faithfully” doesn’t necessarily say anything about whether we “live our faith” outside the minimum Church precepts – and even well beyond the minimum. If I go to daily Mass, but then on the way to coffee and donuts after Mass I steer clear of a homeless person so as not to feel awkward about not giving them a dollar, then am I living the faith? I’m “Catholic” in fact but not “catholic” in my heart and behavior. I may even go so far as to make myself a quick sign of the cross and “say a prayer” for the person I’m avoiding.

James 2:14-17
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

So faith in itself it dead, if it isn’t demonstrated by works, and if those works are not done with love then they mean nothing. So “having faith” to me is kind of a minimal target.

As far as agreeing 100% with church teachings? I see people every day who boast about that and they argue among themselves about trifles and serious matters alike. And almost always if we look into it, we find a facet of Catholic teaching that both “100% Catholics” were wrong about at the same time. And dare I say not even the best canon lawyer actually knows everything about “all” of Catholic teachings so how can you give mental assent to something you don’t even know? You can’t; you can only give organizational authority, and then not presume to know better. Like the other day I was told John Paul the Great erred in a very visible (and obviously premeditated) way – and “real Catholics” questioned his actions – as if to place themselves the moral judge of the Bishop of Rome, acting in his professional role. Yeah, 100% Catholics totally submissive to the Pope until the second the apostolic descendant of Peter kisses another religion’s holy book, and it’s goodbye allegiance to the Pope because he does these random acts of error so how can we really use him as an example if we have to second-guess him… isn’t that kind of Protestant-ish?

So I don’t take some poster’s word for some teaching that makes no sense to me. And that’s part of the intended rant of the OP. Just because I don’t buy your description of what a “perfect little Catholic” is like, doesn’t make me a non-Catholic or any less Catholic than you, no matter how much you may wish to distance yourself from me. At least your ego doesn’t want to be caught anywhere near mine.

MS

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

OK I think I’m done ranting. Releasing thread now for others to take over or let die…

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

For Christ, being perfect man, had a perfect head and a perfect heart, a perfectly hard head and a perfectly soft heart. He practiced what he preached about being wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove. One thread running through the definitions above is the double point about head and heart. We need a conservative head and a liberal heart.

The strong point of conservatives is that they conserve. They are faithful. They keep the faith. They are anchored in the faith. Their weak point is that they tend to be pugnacious and angry and graceless and merciless and loveless.

The strong point of liberals is their soft heart, their compassion. Their weak point is their soft head, their lack of principles, faith, fidelity, and anchors. They are strong on mercy, but weak on justice and on objective and unchanging moral principles—strong on love but weak on truth.

But both love and truth are absolutes. For they are eternal attributes of God. And in God they are not divided at all, but one thing. That’s why Jesus was both tough and gentle at once. He is a true gentleman, both gentle and manly, like a medieval knight. This is what every woman’s heart desires in a man. It’s also what every man desires in a woman. It’s the kind of love that’s designed to last a lifetime.

The saints, being little Christs, also have two absolutes: truth and love. They have hard heads and soft hearts. Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II are good examples. Listen to them, not the media stereotypes of them, and you will see the pope’s soft heart as well as his hard head, and Mother Teresa’s hard head as well as her soft heart.

– Peter Kreeft

 

[Dorothy]

+JMJ+

For Christ, being perfect man, had a perfect head and a perfect heart, a perfectly hard head and a perfectly soft heart. He practiced what he preached about being wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove. One thread running through the definitions above is the double point about head and heart. We need a conservative head and a liberal heart.

The strong point of conservatives is that they conserve. They are faithful. They keep the faith. They are anchored in the faith. Their weak point is that they tend to be pugnacious and angry and graceless and merciless and loveless.

The strong point of liberals is their soft heart, their compassion. Their weak point is their soft head, their lack of principles, faith, fidelity, and anchors. They are strong on mercy, but weak on justice and on objective and unchanging moral principles—strong on love but weak on truth.

But both love and truth are absolutes. For they are eternal attributes of God. And in God they are not divided at all, but one thing. That’s why Jesus was both tough and gentle at once. He is a true gentleman, both gentle and manly, like a medieval knight. This is what every woman’s heart desires in a man. It’s also what every man desires in a woman. It’s the kind of love that’s designed to last a lifetime.

The saints, being little Christs, also have two absolutes: truth and love. They have hard heads and soft hearts. Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II are good examples. Listen to them, not the media stereotypes of them, and you will see the pope’s soft heart as well as his hard head, and Mother Teresa’s hard head as well as her soft heart.

– Peter Kreeft

Thanks for that quote! Peter Kreeft is a great Catholic writer.

 

[hazcompat]

Maxims for the Direction of a Soul that Desires to Obtain Perfection in the Love of Jesus Christ
by Saint Alphonsus Liguori

1. To desire ardently to increase in the love of Jesus Christ.
2. Often to make acts of love towards Jesus Christ. Immediately on waking, and before going to sleep, to make an act of love, seeking always to unite your own will to the will of Jesus Christ.
3. Often to meditate on his Passion.
4. Always to ask Jesus Christ for his love.
5. To communicate often, and many times in the day to make spiritual Communions.
6. Often to visit the Most Holy Sacrament.
7. Every morning to receive from the hands of Jesus Christ himself your own cross.
8. To desire Paradise and death, in order to be able to love Jesus Christ perfectly and for all eternity.
9. Often to speak of the love of Jesus Christ.
10. To accept contradictions for the sake of Jesus Christ.
11. To rejoice in the happiness of God.
12. To do that which is most pleasing to Jesus Christ, and not to refuse him anything that is agreeable to him.
13. To desire and to endeavor that all should love Jesus Christ.
14. To pray always for sinners and for the souls in purgatory.
15. To drive from your heart every affection that does not belong to Jesus Christ.
16. Always to have recourse to the most holy Mary, that she may obtain for us the love of Jesus Christ.
17. To honor Mary in order to please Jesus Christ.
18. To seek to please Jesus Christ in all your actions.
19. To offer yourself to Jesus Christ to suffer any pain for his love.
    20 To be always determined to die rather than commit a willful venial sin.
20. To suffer crosses patiently, saying, “Thus it pleases Jesus Christ.”
21. To renounce your own pleasures for the love of Jesus Christ.
22. To pray as much as possible.
23. To practice all the mortifications that obedience permits.
24. To do all your spiritual exercises as if it were for the last time.
25. To persevere in good works in the time of aridity.
26. Not to do nor yet to leave undone anything through human respect.
27. Not to complain in sickness.
28. To love solitude, to be able to converse alone with Jesus Christ.
29. To drive away melancholy.
30. Often to recommend yourself to those persons who love Jesus Christ.
31. In temptation, to have recourse to Jesus crucified, and to Mary in her sorrows.
32. To trust entirely in the Passion of Jesus Christ.
33. After committing a fault, not to be discouraged, but to repent and resolve to amend.
34. To do good to those who do evil.
35. To speak well of all, and to excuse the intention when you cannot defend the action.
36. To help your neighbor as much as you can.
37. Neither to say nor to do anything that might vex him. And if you have been wanting in charity, to ask his pardon and speak kindly to him.
38. Always to speak with mildness and in a low tone.
39. To offer to Jesus Christ all the contempt and persecution that you meet with.
40. To look upon [religious] Superiors as the representatives of Jesus Christ.
41. To obey without answering and without repugnance, and not to seek your own satisfaction in anything.
42. To like the lowest employments.
43. To like the poorest things.
44. Not to speak either good or evil of yourself.
45. To humble yourself even towards inferiors.
46. Not to excuse yourself when you are reproved.
47. Not to defend yourself when found fault with.
48. To be silent when you are disquieted.
49. Always to renew your determination of becoming a saint, saying, “My Jesus, I desire to be all Yours, and You must be all mine.”

Peace

 

[Dorothy]

Lord Jesus Christ, help us all to aspire to such perfection!

The grace is available!

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Lord Jesus Christ, help us all to aspire to such perfection!

The grace is available!

I have nothing to add to this thread at this time. You guys are giving me so much to absorb I can hardly take it!

Thank you all, and each. Including those who questioned me for if I am not clear either in my heart or my communications, I want to see what you see, that I may help you help me with my eye plank.

To all who have posted here, and helped transform my rather vague “rant” into Good Fruit,



MS

 

[Dorothy]

I have nothing to add to this thread at this time. You guys are giving me so much to absorb I can hardly take it!

Thank you all, and each. Including those who questioned me for if I am not clear either in my heart or my communications, I want to see what you see, that I may help you help me with my eye plank.

To all who have posted here, and helped transform my rather vague “rant” into Good Fruit,



MS

Thank you for starting the thread. Sharing such things works good both ways, we help each other by communicating.

Have a blessed and holy New Year 2015!

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Thank you for starting the thread. Sharing such things works good both ways, we help each other by communicating.

Have a blessed and holy New Year 2015!

And the same to you for 2015! I have a few hours to go; my Australian fiends have been posting their fireworks photos of tonight, since this morning! LOL

MS