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thomasf
Guest
Because it is not the same as sex with another person. One does not take away from the other, they are exclusive acts.
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Petergee
Guest
It definitely does take away. Everything in your sexual psychology is linked. As I said, sex ties strings. Masturbation not only harms your sexual relationship/s, it harms your non-sexual relationships with everybody. It dulls you to genuine human love and friendship and causes a tendency to see every woman as a sexual object.
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Scout
Guest
I think thomasf’s point is that pornography and masturbation is not something that is just geared towards people outside of a sexual relationship. Just because one is having sex on a regular basis doesn’t mean that the desire to view pornography or to masturbate is swept away.
Some people view pornography for the stimulation. Some, because they’re lonely, and some even because they’re bored. I don’t think there’s one answer, because each individual is unique and their reasons are unique as well.
Also, viewing pornography and masturbation among women is growing to an alarming rate. I don’t think we can consider this as just a “man’s” issue anymore. I just think that women are far less likely to admit to this type of struggle than men.
Scout :tiphat:
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Delphinus85
Guest
I agree with this point entirely. The drive to look at pron is usually never tied with sexual gratfication. I know a married couple (I am close with both of them) and the husband still struggles, and he wants his wofe’s help, but it’s hard for her because she thinks it’s because he doesn’t want her (when in fact nothing can be further from the truth) it’s all because pron is an entirely different appetite I guess. My husband has also explaied that, for him at least, when he used to view it as a teen, it wasn’t about the sex or stimulation, but just from the fact that he liked to see a pretty lady. he know’s it was wrong, but he has explained to me that porn does’t necessarily mean sex or sexual stimulation. It’s a male drive to see women.
And no, porn definately isn’t just a “man’s” problem. I have no problem admitting that while I was in college, I (as a woman) struggled with it very severely, and it didn’t help that I started as a stress relief because my anal evnagelical college was treating me like ****, and on top of it all it fed itself in that any time I did it, I was scared I was going to get expelled. I couldn’t get help because if I talked to ANYONE about it, I would get expelled.
Funny thing is, it didn’t take much to break. I went to confession when I became catholic and I could FINALLY talk about it with my fiancee. Second problem? Since it’s was a “man’s issue” the priest and counsellor wasn’t able to help me much, and frankly they made me feel awful by being shocked that a WOMAN of all people had this struggle. I kept going back to cofession, and then I got married. I haven’t looked at it since 2 months before my wedding, and I’ve been married almost 3 months. I know it does’t seem like “long” but it is for me
if I can give anything up for a month, chances are, it’s gone for good. Although it could be argued mine was a psychological need because I was being pushed beyond breaking point at my school, and i needed the “comfort” which I now get not only from my husband, but from being out of that place!
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iamrefreshed
Guest
This is the most compelling argument against porn that exists. As this poster indicates 90% of porn actors were sexually abused as children. The porn is a way for them to cope with the past abuse. It is called ‘acting out’.
When someone watches porn let them know all they are looking at is a small child trying to cope with past sexual abuse.
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bankerdavid
Guest
Part of the problem, if you’re under 60, is that we were raised with it. Not necessarily women taking their clothes off and having sex, but I remember a magazine, as a young boy, with a picture of a woman in a one piece swimsuit with the zipper down to her navel, and basically the message is “Sex sells”. Since the beginning of the sexual revolution, we have been exposed to scantily clad women in advertisement, movies, and increasingly on television. And now the internet. It’s so easy to find pictures or videos that degrade women. So we have an instilled attitude, and many who were raised nominally religious hear the Word at the volume of a whisper, while the illicit speaks at a roar. Pornography is not just people having sex on film or in pictorial form, it’s Victoria’s Secret commercials, beer commercials, car commercials, viagra commercials, travel commercials, most magazines, most television shows, most movies, billboards, sports events, music videos, music in general, and the people who participate in the entertainment industry. It’s because of moral relativism, where there is no moral certitude, just “I’m ok, you’re ok.”. The era of sex, drugs and rock and roll sure wasn’t as harmless as it seemed at the time.
I speak from experience. I went further down that road, eventually writing fantasies to women. I got caught, got God, got Catholic, and am working on my wife’s forgiveness (very, very simply put!!!).
To the OP, your husband has got to stop. Not to “try”, but to stop. He needs to start being honest with you, he needs to give up all his accounts and passwords (some are forever-they never go away), you need all the url addresses for the sites he visited. One bright spot I saw was that he was tempted to buy a magazine, but didn’t. One thing to help-he should start contemplating on our Lady, let her show him how a woman is supposed to be treated. For me, the more I pray in her presence, the cleaner I become, to a point where any over the top flesh exposure on a woman annoys me. I still see what I used to see, it’s very hard not to, but there’s a different light on it. I really don’t ogle anymore. You have to view every other person as a child of God.
I speak from experience. I went further down that road, eventually writing fantasies to women. I got caught, got God, got Catholic, and am working on my wife’s forgiveness (very, very simply put!!!).
To the OP, your husband has got to stop. Not to “try”, but to stop. He needs to start being honest with you, he needs to give up all his accounts and passwords (some are forever-they never go away), you need all the url addresses for the sites he visited. One bright spot I saw was that he was tempted to buy a magazine, but didn’t. One thing to help-he should start contemplating on our Lady, let her show him how a woman is supposed to be treated. For me, the more I pray in her presence, the cleaner I become, to a point where any over the top flesh exposure on a woman annoys me. I still see what I used to see, it’s very hard not to, but there’s a different light on it. I really don’t ogle anymore. You have to view every other person as a child of God.
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JRKH
Guest
So many good answers. Not much to add.
It sounds like you have a good fella there, and he has a pretty terrific gal. You are talking things out and trying to learn and understand.
I hope that you will explore with him all the aspects of why he did it. Let him tell you if there is anything lacking your marital relationship, and you reciprocate, honestly and lovingly. My wife and I would discuss these things often times in bed before going to sleep.
There are so many things in our lives that can interfere with our libidos, work, kids, health, etc. It is critical that we try to understand and adjust. Try not to take this whole thing personal. Try to see if there are ways to make things more attractive for both of you in your relationship.
Please don’t take what I have said as, in any way blaming you, but it is we who are talking and not your husband.
I will tell you that in my own married life I have used masturbation when health reasons prevented my wife and I from having normal sexual relations although in my case I fantasize about my wife and not someone else. We have also used mutual stimulation when normal coitus was not an option.
I wish you the best on your journey.
If we can help more…
James
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manualman
Guest
Strange how folks like AndyF never noticed that when humanity lived according to his ‘natural’ urges, we all lived in rude huts and the most advanced of civilizations made it all the way to rude stone buildings. Along comes christianity and its ‘repressions’ and out bursts western civilization in just a few centuries (compared to millenia of having it his way).
All a coincidence, of course.
Or not. Perhaps when men live by their urges, civilization to the extent we have it today is not achievable or sustainable. We shall soon find out!
All a coincidence, of course.
Or not. Perhaps when men live by their urges, civilization to the extent we have it today is not achievable or sustainable. We shall soon find out!
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JRKH
Guest
AndyF isn’t completely out in left field. The Battle is between our human nature and spiritual nature. Looking at ancient history and anthropological evidence would indicate that humans, and males in particular, are not naturally monogomous.Strange how folks like AndyF never noticed that when humanity lived according to his ‘natural’ urges, we all lived in rude huts and the most advanced of civilizations made it all the way to rude stone buildings. Along comes christianity and its ‘repressions’ and out bursts western civilization in just a few centuries (compared to millenia of having it his way).
All a coincidence, of course.
Or not. Perhaps when men live by their urges, civilization to the extent we have it today is not achievable or sustainable. We shall soon find out!
Also let us not forget that ancient bible includes polygamy and concubines, so let’s not be too quick to cast aspersions.
As for the rude huts and rude stone buildings - The Arabs and Muslims, who allowed for multiple marriages also had one of the most advanced and learned civilizations known to man. I hardly think that thier architecture can be called “RUDE”. We owe them much of our science since we use their number system that we use.
However I hope we don’t get too off track. The OP has a serious issue and doesn’t need out sniping at each other.
James
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jmcrae
Guest
Actually I think it results in less genetic diversity, since the children end up marrying/mating with their half-brothers or half-sisters, instead of persons who are not physically related to them at all.
In the third generation, there would be even less genetic diversity.
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manualman
Guest
- History and anthropolgy don’t prove that man is ‘naturally’ non-monomagous. They prove that he is fatally fallen, and therefore unable to live according to his innate dignity under his own willpower. In case you hadn’t noticed, that is the ENTIRE reason Jesus came to earth to save us.
- The bible is the story of God slowly revealing himself to humanity. The portion that included polygamy and concubines, you might notice, occurred when humanity still lived in said rude conditions!
- Muslim scientific and cultural achievements occurred AFTER they conquered and absorbed the fruit of the culure of most of eastern christendom (which was far more advanced at the time than western christendom). Arguably, they merely benefitted from the cultural momentum that had built up under christianity. Once that momentum faded, look what has become of Islamic culture - not too impressive, IMO.
- It’s not off- track at all. It is crucially central to decide if christian teaching on chastity is the TRUTH or not before you can decide how to make decisions about your sexuality.
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richardwy
Guest
Lust is devilish. It cannot be grasped rationally.
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otjm
Guest
The list above is good, but there is a subtle element that has been talked about, and that is respect.
At its very basic premise, porn makes a promise to a man: he can have what he wants without any responsiblity at all. And having what he wants is an extremely “I” oriented attitude; it is completely self-centered. The objective is for the male to achieve an orgasim, and the female is simply an object which induces that.
Most men, if asked, might not even be aware of their attitude towards women, because it is usually something that has had a long history, and one that has been subtle in its selling. The woman is not seen as a person, but as, to make a crude analogy, a warm and sexually responsive sperm recepticle. She is not a helpmate, but rather a toy, exisiting for one purpose - an orgasm. Porn, and the resulting masturbation, is oriented only to the orgasm with no responsiblities whatsoever in terms of caring, supporting, emotional connection (with the exception of making the porn viewer feel like a stud) or any of the other attendant “thou” aspects of a relationship.
The bottom line is that it is a fantasy world in which the porn object comes on to the viewer; it involves power, use, total lack of responsiblity to another, and orgasm. Short, to the point, and no possiblity of rejection, of ego loss, or any need for any followup whatsoever.
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Galandriel
Guest
I have Catholic friends who also have struggled with porn. They have all recommended these sites, especially XXXchurch.com. They are Christian sites, but it’s what they recommended.
Why? Because it has accountability. Everytime they “fall” someone they trust, a good buddy, their wife, will know. This was really good for one of my friends, because his wife was his accountability partner and this helped him see how much it actually hurt her when they talked about it.
Anyway, check out these links from XXXchurch. Hope they help! Prayers for you!
THE HELP
SOFTWARE:
www.x3watch.com (accountability software)
www.safeeyes.com (internet filtering)
HELP ON THE WEB:
www.purelifeministries.org
www.pureonline.com
www.thefight.com.au
www.genesiscounseling.org
www.everymanministries.com
Why? Because it has accountability. Everytime they “fall” someone they trust, a good buddy, their wife, will know. This was really good for one of my friends, because his wife was his accountability partner and this helped him see how much it actually hurt her when they talked about it.
Anyway, check out these links from XXXchurch. Hope they help! Prayers for you!
THE HELP
SOFTWARE:
www.x3watch.com (accountability software)
www.safeeyes.com (internet filtering)
HELP ON THE WEB:
www.purelifeministries.org
www.pureonline.com
www.thefight.com.au
www.genesiscounseling.org
www.everymanministries.com
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thomasf
Guest
This is a very good post. I had this attitude most of my life and never realized it until I came back to the church. Men are taught that women are objects to be used, and that is exactly what they do through porn and masturbation. And it’s a very hard thing to break from.
It also affects a man’s relationship to women of all kinds and ages. I for one have had a problem for all my life relating to women. All I have been taught to see them as is a sexual object, and it would be hard to see them as a friend, or even for their basic human dignity. It is very difficult to deal with that.
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Dameedna
Guest
Best post in this thread.
Don’t judge so much as really try and understand it. Just look at it… You’ll probably laugh as this poster did
It’s not real, it’s just fantasy. Sort it out together as partners and try not to be too harsh. May take some time.
Edited to say: do not presume that the women in porn have all been abused, because they have not. Some do enjoy it. Let them be and let them make their choice. It isn’t about wether the women or men enjoy it, it’s about the entire silliness of the whole thing. I mean reeeeeeeally!! wouldn’t you rather be DOING it? that watching it?
By all means…go ahead
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bankerdavid
Guest
Scott Hahn has a great analogy regarding Jesus and pornography-Jesus is the Word made flesh, pornography perverts this because it is the flesh made word. (objectified is how I understand what he’s saying)
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rpp
Guest
There is so much wrong with this it is breathtaking. None of this is consistant with Catholic teaching in either faith or morals. No faithful Catholic would use the language used here. Parts of this post are even blasphemous.DevstdWife:
I hope being perfectly frank and opinionated is OK too.
Religious point of view, we are being tempted and submit to extra marital sex either fully expressed or in wishful thinking.
Practical point of view is a bit longer. It may be a sin but it has as it’s root a practical base. We are primates and it is unnatural for male primates to be monogamous(sp?), females also. The reason is the more partners, the more genetic diversity in the offspring and chance for conception, which is a good reason. In primates the group takes on the responsibility of child rearing, with the mother taking on that responsibility predominatly in the early years.
Now the connection. If it is the intent for any superior being to plant the seed that a sexual behaviour is wrong(or misplaced.), then it is inevitable the two forces, one of the will and one of nature will be continuosly at war. The celestial score keepers find this torture very interesting, and in fact is a cruelty on the human species. The fires of hades is continuoully stoked with those unfortunate enough to comply with the enemy … nature.
The result of this moral stop gap is what we see today in all forms of methods found as unconscience substitute in expressing the natural condition. We have the substitute lessening of the libido in masturbation naturally expressed in random copulation. We have the substitute visual stimuli of porn magazines replacing the visual and common natural spontaneous intercourse scene,etc. The psychologists have a field day with these problems where they know full well the cause. Many other symptoms of the sexual restraint are expressed in other non-sexual ways as well.
Oddly, the big deal of sex wouldn’t be such a big deal if the natural course was removed of it’s moral shackles and allowed to express itself. Sex would eventually be no more an excitement than drinking water. Albeit a few years of excess would truly be the outcome, the kettle under continuous pressure allowed to boil to it’s end. But eventually we would see less sexual crime as intercourse would be common and no need to take what is already available free. Disease would be a problem, but it already is now.
Strangely still, we have more proof that the celestial audience in their bleachers doesn’t want to see this moral gladiator sex game stop evidence an error it/they/he made previously. (The celestial beings don’t feel they need to be consistant to lessor beings, a privledge of rank I guess.) Some humans unable to win this arena fight ask to have the sexual drive removed. A logical and wise move for those destined for the inferno. Man perfectly willing to chance it anyway is also chucked out.
That creates a problem for the celestial sports people. "Gosh, we made an unambigouos promise that we would give them a fish and not a snake when they ask for it. What do we do now?. “Well” they said “We certainly can’t let them by with this loop hole, we’ll just tell them we will decide what is best for them in their best interest.”
I have no good news for you really. You will need to ask those same sports buffs through prayers to help your family, and he will need to ask the Blessed Mother for help. Obligations to the Church, and charity will get you a good hearing as well. The Rosary will help also. He will need a diversion and maybe a few nights out with you to return focus on yourself. Relive the early years to rekindle that spark and don’t be afraid to start over and laugh.
As you can see I am not very happy with the human condition in the sexual element, and I have always believed there is something amiss in the sexual department that man is not aware of. I am a “poor sport” unwilling to play this insensitive sex game thrust on us. I am saddened to see people continuously burdened with sexual problems that have no roots in something they have done.
FWIW: I am sexually content and happily married.
AndyF
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Steve40
Guest
Viewing porn is both a form of adultery (of the heart) and a form of idolatry. Not only is it a rejection of the wife but it is also is a rejection of God. The adultery part is obvious since Christ said if you look at a women lustfully you have already committed adultery with her in your heart. The consequences of actual adultery may keep a husband from having sexual relations with another person outside of marriage, so instead they turn to porn. Also, porn is less personal than committing adultery with another person and viewing porn and masturbating is a withdrawing into self.
When a man lustfully views porn he is worshiping his idol. It is a form of idolatry that enslaves in addiction after the decision to worship is made.
I personally thank God for His mercy and the possibility of sobriety. God and the support from people in SA (sa.org/) have helped me immensely.
When a man lustfully views porn he is worshiping his idol. It is a form of idolatry that enslaves in addiction after the decision to worship is made.
I personally thank God for His mercy and the possibility of sobriety. God and the support from people in SA (sa.org/) have helped me immensely.
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