I Want to Know Why...(wife vs. porn)

[rpp]

What makes you think Andy is a Catholic?

Edwin

His profile.

 

[bankerdavid]

You’re absolutely right about the idolatry aspect. I had never thought of that!

 

[Scout]

When a man lustfully views porn he is worshiping his idol. It is a form of idolatry that enslaves in addiction after the decision to worship is made.

I understand your point, but I’m not sure I agree with you 100%. The question that came to my mind is if a husband looks at his wife with desire (or lust), does that mean he is idolizing his wife?

Scout :tiphat:

 

[FrankLawrence]

I understand your point, but I’m not sure I agree with you 100%. The question that came to my mind is if a husband looks at his wife with desire (or lust), does that mean he is idolizing his wife?

Scout :tiphat:

In a case where someone knows that viewing pornography is sinful, yet willfully and knowingly views pornography with the intention of deriving sexual pleasure from it, that would always be an act of idolatry, because it is a decision to place selfish rebellion against God as a higher priority in life than love and obedience to God.

The marital embrace, on the other hand, is acting within what God has made sacred. Natural sexual desire towards your own spouse is God-given, and licit in the marital bed. Therefore, it is NOT a sin, and NOT an idol.

If, however, a man has a twisted selfish, LUSTFUL view towards his wife, then he is sinning and then even the marital embrace can become an idol, when done out of selfishness rather than mutual submission.

Also, if someone places his wife ahead of God, then it has become a form of idolatry.

So, to conclude, the act of lustfully viewing pornography is idolatry in and of itself. The marital embrace can become idolatry if entered in the wrong frame of mind, and wrong state of heart, but is NOT idolatry in and of itself.

I hope that makes sense

 

[Steve40]

I understand your point, but I’m not sure I agree with you 100%. The question that came to my mind is if a husband looks at his wife with desire (or lust), does that mean he is idolizing his wife?

Scout :tiphat:

John Paul II said that men should not even lust over their wives, and he was right. One’s wife is not an object to be lusted after. If sex is truely an image of the unity of the Trinity, the total giving of self should not include lustful desire. Lust within marriage is a distortion and is not what God intended from the beginning. Are we going to lust over union with God? If your desire is similar to a desire for total self giving union with God, then I would say it is pure. The difference is that lust is selfish while Godly desire is self-giving.

 

[Steve40]

In a case where someone knows that viewing pornography is sinful, yet willfully and knowingly views pornography with the intention of deriving sexual pleasure from it, that would always be an act of idolatry, because it is a decision to place selfish rebellion against God as a higher priority in life than love and obedience to God.

The marital embrace, on the other hand, is acting within what God has made sacred. Natural sexual desire towards your own spouse is God-given, and licit in the marital bed. Therefore, it is NOT a sin, and NOT an idol.

If, however, a man has a twisted selfish, LUSTFUL view towards his wife, then he is sinning and then even the marital embrace can become an idol, when done out of selfishness rather than mutual submission.

Also, if someone places his wife ahead of God, then it has become a form of idolatry.

So, to conclude, the act of lustfully viewing pornography is idolatry in and of itself. The marital embrace can become idolatry if entered in the wrong frame of mind, and wrong state of heart, but is NOT idolatry in and of itself.

I hope that makes sense

I read your post after I posted mine. I might have just left it at your post. It make’s sense to me and is perhaps a better explaination.

 

[JRKH]

John Paul II said that men should not even lust over their wives, and he was right. One’s wife is not an object to be lusted after.

I thought it might be useful to the conversation to include the definitions for lust given at Dictionary.com:

1. intense sexual desire or appetite.
2. uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.
3. a passionate or overmastering desire or craving (usually fol. by for): a lust for power.
4. ardent enthusiasm; zest; relish: an enviable lust for life.
5. Obsolete. a. pleasure or delight.
   b. desire; inclination; wish.

–verb (used without object) 6. to have intense sexual desire.
7. to have a yearning or desire; have a strong or excessive craving (often fol. by for or after).

If sex is truely an image of the unity of the Trinity, the total giving of self should not include lustful desire. Lust within marriage is a distortion and is not what God intended from the beginning.

Obviously this statement will depend on what my lustful desire is.
I can say that in the case of my marriage, my wife and I lust for each other’s pleasure, and our lusts do not include anything that is physically or emotionally hurtful to the other.

Are we going to lust over union with God? If your desire is similar to a desire for total self giving union with God, then I would say it is pure. The difference is that lust is selfish while Godly desire is self-giving.

Depends on which definition you are using and what your particular character is. Personally I would hope that my desire to be with God could be called a lust in the purest sense.

This is not to say that I have not sinned through lust. I have and must live with the knowledge of those sins, but within the bounds of my marriage, no, lusting for my wife is not sinful.

James

 

[Pat_the_Cat]

But I just want to know if anybody has an explanation as to why guys choose porn over their wife. I just don’t understand. How can a man want to view that stuff and do that to himself over being with a person, his wife? It just doesn’t register with me.

Porn and masturbation are bad habits (Vices) that take time, **humility **and a lot of **loving support **to overcome.

If it’s JUST a bad habit it can be broken in a few weeks. Unfortunately for many it is also an addiction. We all have appetites and they get messed if we don’t take control of them. If we don’t know how to fulfil our REAL NEEDS then we try to fulfil what we do know… our wants! For instance, some people eat to alleviate their loneliness, even although they know that they cannot be fulfilled. their need for companionship is not being met, but they may still FEEL gratification.
Some people drink excessive amounts of alcohol to deal with rejection. This will never fulfil their NEED for acceptance, although it might help dull the pain and bring some sort of feelings of gratification. Others use Porn or Masturbation trying to fulfill intimacy NEEDS. the need to be so intimate with another that they can trust them with ANYTHING. or sometimes it’s about self-acceptance. We cannot truly accept ourselves until we KNOW that someone else can truly accept us… warts and all. This need should be primarily met in our friendship with Christ.

:twocents: If the Porn / Masturbation thing is an addiction, then your husband needs to get help; to find out what the root of the problem is. Usually it’s a symptom of something much deeper. A good Catholic counsellor or psychologist could help with this.

I believe that one thing that definitely won’t help, is making him feel guilty about his weakness especially after a fall. He may feel rejected by YOU the one person who is supposed to know, love and accept him. Please do not feel that I am putting you under any undue pressure to accept his vices, that is not my intention, but tread carefully in making him feel more ashamed of himself than he already does, because often sexual sins stem from shame. However, DO tell him you love him and that you will help him to find the support he needs.

Check out the links on the moral theology home page concerning sexual sin and getting help.

This is a good link PornNoMore

I would also reccomend this book for him (and you) to read.

Every Man’s Battle

It’s not Catholic but tackles most of the areas that need to be dealt with in a Christian way. I think it’s a good start.

God bless you both. I know what you’re going through. I’ll keep you in my prayers.

 

[agangbern]

Just show some more kindness to your husband because he is undergoing a seemingly unknown lonely war deep within himself.

 

[Contarini]

I understand your point, but I’m not sure I agree with you 100%. The question that came to my mind is if a husband looks at his wife with desire (or lust), does that mean he is idolizing his wife?

An idol is something that is unreal–a product of our own fantasy. To make a real creation of God an idol, we have to turn it into something that it is not by projecting our own desires onto it. It is indeed possible to do that with one’s spouse, but relatively hard, because the reality of the other person will keep intruding.

Lust in Christian ethics (for which Webster’s is NOT the best source!) is not simply sexual desire, but desire for a projection of the self. To desire another person–a real person with all that that involves–is not lust per se, although obviously in certain circumstances (such as if one is married to someone else) it may still be sinful. (In most cases, though, attraction to a person other than one’s spouse is driven by dissatisfaction with reality.)

Edwin

 

[Steve40]

I thought it might be useful to the conversation to include the definitions for lust given at Dictionary.com:

1. intense sexual desire or appetite.
2. uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.
3. a passionate or overmastering desire or craving (usually fol. by for): a lust for power.
4. ardent enthusiasm; zest; relish: an enviable lust for life.
5. Obsolete. a. pleasure or delight.
   b. desire; inclination; wish.

–verb (used without object) 6. to have intense sexual desire.
7. to have a yearning or desire; have a strong or excessive craving (often fol. by for or after).

Obviously this statement will depend on what my lustful desire is.
I can say that in the case of my marriage, my wife and I lust for each other’s pleasure, and our lusts do not include anything that is physically or emotionally hurtful to the other.

Depends on which definition you are using and what your particular character is. Personally I would hope that my desire to be with God could be called a lust in the purest sense.

This is not to say that I have not sinned through lust. I have and must live with the knowledge of those sins, but within the bounds of my marriage, no, lusting for my wife is not sinful.

James

I was speaking in terms of the deadly sin called lust. In this sense it is just as deadly in marriage as outside of marriage but, I agree that the English language or any human language isn’t good enough.

I love pizza and I love my wife. On another planet this would make no sense. Maybe loving my wife the same way I love pizza is the lust that I am talking about.