I was converted from Catholicism to Christ at the age of 19.

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sandusky said:
I could’ve cited that myself had this been concerned with “falling out” from grace; however, that’s not what wina stated originally (see post #312), but losing grace.
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What’s the difference between “falling out of grace” and “losing grace”? 🤷
 
sandusky said:
I could’ve cited that myself had this been concerned with “falling out” from grace; however, that’s not what wina stated originally (see post #312), but losing grace.

Where in scripture is one said to “lose” grace?" (Gk appolumi).

I know where scripture says that one can “fall out” (Gk ekpiptio) from grace, and the reason given for that falling out.

Those are two different things.

Again, where in scripture is one said to “lose” grace? (Gk appolumi).
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Right next to the phrase “assurance of salvation.”
 
sandusky said:
🤷 G-r-a-c-e; where is it?
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Oooh! You can spell! 😃

What do you think this verse means from the Psalm:
Cast me not away from thy face; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Do you think it possibly means that David believes the Holy Spirit can be taken from him?
 
Mickey said:
Oooh! You can spell! 😃

What do you think this verse means from the Psalm:
Cast me not away from thy face; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Do you think it possibly means that David believes the Holy Spirit can be taken from him?
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The issue has nothing to do with whether or not something could, or couldn’t happen, but whether or not, by his sin, David “lost grace.”
 
sandusky said:
The word for “lose” means grace perishes, to “fall from” doesn’t mean grace perishes.
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Grace belongs to God; of course it doesn’t perish. It is the never-ending stream of the water and the blood pouring out of the side of Christ (metaphorically speaking).

But if you fall out of it, then you are no longer being washed clean by it, and you are no longer on the path towards Heaven.
 
It may happen that for a certain time a man is illumined and refreshed by God’s grace, and then this grace is withdrawn. This makes him inwardly confused and he starts to grumble; instead of seeking through steadfast prayer to recover his assurance of salvation, he loses patience and gives up. He is like a beggar who receives alms from the palace, and feels put out because he was not asked inside to dine with the king.
St. John of Karpathos
 
Mickey said:
It may happen that for a certain time a man is illumined and refreshed by God’s grace, and then this grace is withdrawn. This makes him inwardly confused and he starts to grumble; instead of seeking through steadfast prayer to recover his assurance of salvation, he loses patience and gives up. He is like a beggar who receives alms from the palace, and feels put out because he was not asked inside to dine with the king.
St. John of Karpathos
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Is David that man?
 
jmcrae said:
Grace belongs to God; of course it doesn’t perish. It is the never-ending stream of the water and the blood pouring out of the side of Christ (metaphorically speaking).

But if you fall out of it, then you are no longer being washed clean by it, and you are no longer on the path towards Heaven.
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The grace of salvation, once given, is not lost. (One may interrupt sanctification; however, we don’t agree on that either).
 
sandusky said:
The Orthodox twist? 😃
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The Orthodox believe that we are all born into the state of grace, but they wouldn’t have the Sacrament of Reconciliation if they thought we couldn’t lose it by means of personal sin.
 
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Gamera:
Right next to the phrase “assurance of salvation.”
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I’ve looked, and it’s not next to any of those verses.
 
sandusky said:
The grace of salvation, once given, is not lost. (One may interrupt sanctification; however, we don’t agree on that either).
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Interupt sanctification!?! Where is that “sanctification interuption” in the Bible? 😃
 
jmcrae said:
Yes, he did.

It was restored to him when he made his Confession to Nathan the Prophet, and Nathan the Prophet, speaking alter Christus, showed him the penance that he would suffer in atonement for his sin (the death of his child).
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(1) David wasn’t under grace, he was under Law.

(2) However, God did not deal with David’s sin according to that Law, but forgave him according to grace. But David himself was under Law. If God had dealt with his sin according to the Law, David would have died.

(3) You read a lot of your religious system into that story. David did not “suffer in atonement for his sin.” His sin was forgiven him by God, announced to him by Nathan.

(4) Atonement of sin was specified in the Law and it wasn’t through the death of an offspring. Your interpretation of that story is corrupt.
 
jmcrae said:
The Orthodox believe that we are all born into the state of grace, but they wouldn’t have the Sacrament of Reconciliation if they thought we couldn’t lose it by means of personal sin.
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Yes. We must repent. Holy Orthodoxy stands with Catholicism here (and on many things).

Sandusky has talked himself into a corner in which he must spin and twist in order to escape. 😃
 
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