I was converted from Catholicism to Christ at the age of 19.

[Pier]

Thing;4233552:

I like the one where the blind man wants to be healed and Christ mixes mud and spittle in His hands and rubs it on the mans eyes with the instructions to go and wash it off.

I’m just glad that the blind man didn’t have to be healed again and again. When Christ restored his sight, it was once for all.

Then why did Christ command, at the Last Supper, to “Do this in memory of me?” What, to you, did that imply?

I haven’t read all the posts, so please forgive me if I post something already stated…

 

[fbl9]

St.Matthew 12:37"for by your words thou wilt be justified,and by your words thou wilt be condemned"…IOW by your actions you will be judged…

 

[Pier]

What does “I accepted Christ as my savior” mean?

reen12

According to Christ, part of what it means is picking up our crosses every day and following Him.

 

[Pier]

Ok, so my English word may have limited because it’s my secondary languange.
So if someone fall out from grace, what will happen to him/her? will he/she still be saved?

They can be - so long as a person is still alive, there is always hope.

 

[benedictus2]

others in the church before him had done the same thing.

Care to enlighten me what others?

And he didn’t get rid of the book.

But not for want of trying. So what does that say about him? Trying to mutilate the Word of God.
Thanks be to God, the Holy Spirit prevailedl.

How do you know he didn’t? Not everything Jesus did was recorded in scripture (Jn 21:25), but what is important is that the apostles did write scripture, and no one writes scripture on their own, but only as the Spirit moves them (2 Pet 1:20ff), so Jesus did move them to write the scripture.

***But hey, I am just reasoning here from your point of view of the Bilbe alone. **And I am saying that it was not in part of “**what Christ moved them to write” (*your words again)

And as in my post above, Luther did try to re-write scripture on his own.

 

[benedictus2]

Correct.

I understand the Catholic position.

.

So how do you refute it?

 

[wina]

"Originally Posted by wina:

Ok, so my English word may have limited because it’s my secondary languange.
So if someone fall out from grace, what will happen to him/her? will he/she still be saved?

They can be - so long as a person is still alive, there is always hope.

Yes, I totally agree with it, the important is we repent when we have sin. But I need to know Sandusky’s answer to it. Because he said that one saved always saved regarding whatever one has done in his/her life. Based on what he wrote all his posts if I didn’t misunderstand them.
I noticed that you said you haven’t read all posts, then you may want to read all so you may know what we discuss about.
Thanks for your answer anyway.

 

[sandusky]

benedictus2:

The Church’s authority is not self-proclaimed. Christ gave her that authority (You are Peter and upon this rock I will be my Church).

According to her.

benedictus2:

The Catholic Church is Christ’s church and that is why of all the Christian churches She is the only one that has held on to the moral teachings that has been taught by Christ.

List the moral teachings that only she teaches.

benedictus2:

The other churches have all watered down to one degree or another Christ’s teachings.

List the teachings of Christ that to one to degree or another other churches have watered down.

benedictus2:

It is Christ’s church and the promise that the Holy Spirit will be sent to lead Her into all truth is given to the Church.

Cite the verse in which Christ states that He will send the Holy Spirit "to the Church to lead her into all truth."

benedictus2:

I don’t know what denomination you are but please do a thorough study of the history of your church.

Why did it break away from the previous denomination and how many branches down is it from Luther/Calvins churches.

What were the doctrinal issues that caused all the denominations in between to break away fromt the initial Lutheran / Calvinist point of view.

You might find that the devil in in the detail.

Assumes that I have come to hold my position in a vacuum.

benedictus2:

And no, you are not peaching Christ, but an adulterated version of Christ.

Begs the question: what adulterated version of Christ am I preaching?

benedictus2:

Otherwise, you will preace the entire Bible and not just passages that suit your point of view.

I have dealt with passages presented by others, and not just with passages that suit my point of view.

benedictus2:

Care to enlighten me what others?

Go back to post 317 and click on the two “blue underlined” sentences—they are hyperlinks to another website to answer your questions.

benedictus2:

But hey, I am just reasoning here from your point of view of the Bilbe alone.

No you’re not.

benedictus2:

And I am saying that it was not in part of “what Christ moved them to write” (your words again)

Those are Peter’s words—did you read the scripture passage I cited?

benedictus2:

So how do you refute it?

I don’t; at least not now, and not on this thread.

 

[sandusky]

jmcrae:

But St. Paul equates them. He states that to live in the Law is to live in the flesh, and that the works of the flesh are all these other things, as well.

Where?

jmcrae:

And how do people receive it?

Simplest answer: providentially, through the outworking of His will in a believer’s life, and His influencing of the circumstances of the believer’s life—IOW, not through sacraments.

 

[Zooey]

You’re defining “grace” arbitrarily and unbiblically. Nowhere in the New Testament is persistence in deliberate sin described as being compatible with the reception of grace. Your grace is not grace at all but a form of “cooking the books.” The grace that matters is the grace that transforms even as it forgives. Yes, our transformation is always incomplete and we have to ask for forgiveness every day. No one is disputing that.

Edwin

Precisely right.
Thank you, Edwin.

 

[Mickey]

For heaven’s sake, Mickey, read Samuel; David was restored/forgiven at the recognition of his sin.

For heaven’s sake sandy, read Samuel AND Psalms!

 

[Mickey]

It’s not a prayer for the restoration of salvation, but the “joy” of His salvation.

Oh I see. It was only the “joy” that was restored. Sheesh! And why did he lose his joy?

Create a clean heart in me, O God: and renew a right spirit within my bowels.

 

[sandusky]

Gamera:

So now it isn’t enough for salvation to believe in Jesus – I also must agree with in the theology of “assurance of salvation.” So much for “faith alone.”

I’m simply telling you what I have, that you don’t have.

 

[Mickey]

IOW, not through sacraments.

Oh my. If only you could experience the grace that God freely administers through His Holy Sacraments.

 

[sandusky]

wina:

Yes, I totally agree with it, the important is we repent when we have sin. But I need to know Sandusky’s answer to it. Because he said that one saved always saved regarding whatever one has done in his/her life. Based on what he wrote all his posts if I didn’t misunderstand them.

Actually, wina, that’s not what I’ve said.

What you are calling OSAS, is what I call the perseverance of the saints—a doctrine taught by the Catholic Church, and a doctrine which the Catholic must believe de fide.

IOW, those God has determined to save will be saved.

As far as the idea of “falling from grace” it’s mentioned only once in the NT in Gal 5:4, and it comes about specifically through seeking to be justified by law, the specific “law” cited is circumcision; however, the general application of the passage is the idea of justification by law or works of any kind results in “falling from grace.”

That said, however, true believers don’t fall from grace, as they understand how their justification has come about, and that it’s not by law and works; I find that peculiar to Arminians, Catholics and other non-biblical gospels.

 

[sandusky]

Oh my. If only you could experience the grace that God freely administers through His Holy Sacraments.

How’s the church-hopping going Mickey?

Are you getting close to leaving the Orthodox for something new?

 

[Mickey]

How’s the church-hopping going Mickey?

I could only be in a sacramental apostolic Church (Catholic or Orthodox).

Your personal insults calling me a “church-hopper” only succeed in diminishing your credibilitiy on these fora.

 

[wina]

Actually, wina, that’s not what I’ve said.

What you are calling OSAS, is what I call the perseverance of the saints—a doctrine taught by the Catholic Church, and a doctrine which the Catholic must believe de fide.

IOW, those God has determined to save will be saved.

As far as the idea of “falling from grace” it’s mentioned only once in the NT in Gal 5:4, and it comes about specifically through seeking to be justified by law, the specific “law” cited is circumcision; however, the general application of the passage is the idea of justification by law or works of any kind results in “falling from grace.”

That said, however, true believers don’t fall from grace, as they understand how their justification has come about, and that it’s not by law and works; I find that peculiar to Arminians, Catholics and other non-biblical gospels.

Thank you for your answer. But could you please define true believers? how can someone be called true believers? can you say yourself true believers? can’t true believers have doubt? what I mean that I believe in God and always do. But as human I’m so weak so often that I fall and have sins, but everyday I ask God for his forgiveness and always try my best to do His will. And I do believe that God forgives my sins because God knows me well more than myself. So, am I not a true believer?

Anyway what IOW means?

 

[sandusky]

I could only be in a sacramental apostolic Church (Catholic or Orthodox).

Here’s a book I’d recommend you read, Mickey, Israel and the Church.

It goes into the early, early error of the Church in its thinking that the Church replaced Israel, and the effects of that error on its worship and liturgy.

The gentiles pretty much shunned the original Jewish Christian Churches, and the model given by the apostles, and modeled itself after the OT ritual, sacrificial system under the guise of sacraments.

It’s a good read.

 

[Mickey]

Here’s a book I’d recommend you read, Mickey, Israel and the Church.

You can keep your book, my friend. All of my reading consists of the early Church fathers and Sacred Scripture. There was no error in the Holy Apostolic Church–it is the Church that Jesus Christ instituted. Anyone who believes differently has been deceived.

The terrible error came in the 16th century. I am sorry that you feel otherwise, but I do not read books that propigate heresies against Christ’s Church and the Holy Liturgy and Sacraments.

Blessings,
Mickey