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guanophore
Guest
Do you think that all the elements of our faith are “proveable”?Guanophore, as you do with Scripture, so you have taken what I’ve said OUT OF CONTEXT.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
Believers are judged by a tougher standard. They can definitely come into condemnation if they don’t endure in God’s good grace.
To him who has been given much, much is expected.
2 Peter 2:20-21 “They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them.”
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sandusky
Guest
Maybe according to you, but not according to Jesus, or Paul (cf 1 Cor 11:27-32).
CHESTERTONRULES said:
Those are two verses, with no context, and no explanation as to how they mean what you say they mean.
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sandusky
Guest
Which scripture?
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
Maybe according to you, but not according to Jesus, or Paul (cf 1 Cor 11:27-32).
Luke 12
47 “And a servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. 48 But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly. When someone has been given much, much will be required in return; and when someone has been entrusted with much, even more will be required.
They mean what they say.Those are two verses, with no context, and no explanation as to how they mean what you say they mean.
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sandusky
Guest
If you read the parable in Luke 12 carefully, you’ll discover that it is talking about two different servants. A good servant, and a wicked servant, and it’s the wicked servant who is punished.
With respect to the second Peter passage, you’re still missing much of the context. Start with v1, and go to v22, and then explain.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
What is it that makes him wicked?
You totally miss the point of the parable because it conflicts with your man made dogma.
What does this mean to a Calvinist?
48 But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly. When someone has been given much, much will be required in return; and when someone has been entrusted with much, even more will be required.
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guanophore
Guest
Really?
“From everyone to whom much has been given, much will be required; and from the one to whom much has been entrusted, even more will be demanded.” Luke 12:48
It sure sounds like Jesus expects more of us…
2 Peter 2:20-21 “They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them.”
I am curious what you think they mean. They make perfect sense to a Catholic, since we believe it is possble to be “made free from the evil of the world” yet return to evil, and have our last state be worse than our first.Those are two verses, with no context, and no explanation as to how they mean what you say they mean.
However, I know that you don’t believe it is possible for a saved person to have “evil things control them”, since they have been transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light.
2 Peter 2:20-21 “They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them.”
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sandusky
Guest
He’s said to be an unbeliever, and so, is cut in pieces (v46).
You’re projecting.
V48 by itself states that there will be varying degress of punishment in hell commensurate with the extent of willfulness in the unfaithful behavior, and that ignorance of the master’s will is not an excuse for the avoidance of punishment.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
It says when someone has been given much, much will be required in return.
What is required?
Also, I’d like to know where belief comes up in this parable.
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sandusky
Guest
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
That’s not what the verse says.
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sandusky
Guest
What does it say?
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guanophore
Guest
Luke 12:47-48
47 That slave who knew what his master wanted, but did not prepare himself or do what was wanted, will receive a severe beating. 48 But the one who did not know and did what deserved a beating will receive a light beating.
Sounds to me like if you fall short, you get a beating, a light or a heavy one.
In the past you have told me that these persons were never saved in the beginning. how is it they escaped from the defilements of the world through knowledge of Christ? We know that knowledge, in itself, is not enough to escape defilement, since even the demons have knowledge of Christ. The only way to escape defilement is by grace, through faith.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
I agree that a person must bear fruit and abide in Christ.
How does this happen?
Jesus tells us:
John 15
9"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
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sandusky
Guest
I’m interested in what CHESTERTON has to say. If he ever gets around to an explanation, then perhaps, you’ll hear what I have to say.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
46the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful.
Clearly, this is someone that knows who the master is and what he expects of his servants.
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sandusky
Guest
But you said that’s not what the verse said.
Please tell me, in your own words, what the verse says.
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sandusky
Guest
OK. What does that mean?
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
It means that if we are a servant of God but don’t do what we should then we will be punished.
The grace of God is sufficient if we respond to it and follow Christ.
If we reject it, we will be punished.
It’s not complicated.
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