I was converted from Catholicism to Christ at the age of 19.

[RobHom]

Maybe according to you, but not according to Jesus, or Paul (cf 1 Cor 11:27-32).

How is it that he is in error? Here is the passage in whole. I would have to say that he is correct and you have missed its meaning.

*16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor the church of God. 17 Now this I ordain: not praising you, that you come together not for the better, but for the worse. 18 For first of all I hear that when you come together in the church, there are schisms among you; and in part I believe it. 19 For there must be also heresies: that they also, who are approved, may be made manifest among you. 20 When you come therefore together into one place, it is not now to eat the Lord’s supper.

19 “There must be also heresies”… By reason of the pride and perversity of man’s heart; not by God’s will or appointment; who nevertheless draws good out of this evil, manifesting, by that occasion, who are the good and firm Christians, and making their faith more remarkable.

20 “The Lord’s supper”… So the apostle here calls the charity feasts observed by the primitive Christians; and reprehends the abuses of the Corinthians, on these occasions; which were the more criminal, because these feasts were accompanied with the celebrating of the eucharistic sacrifice and sacrament.

21 For every one taketh before his own supper to eat. And one indeed is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What, have you not houses to eat and to drink in? Or despise ye the church of God; and put them to shame that have not? What shall I say to you? Do I praise you? In this I praise you not. 23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. 24 And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. 25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.

26 For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall show the death of the Lord, until he come. 27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. 30 Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep.

27 “Or drink”… Here erroneous translators corrupted the text, by putting and drink (contrary to the original) instead of or drink.

27 “Guilty of the body”… not discerning the body. This demonstrates the real presence of the body and blood of Christ, even to the unworthy communicant; who otherwise could not be guilty of the body and blood of Christ, or justly condemned for not discerning the Lord’s body.

28 “Drink of the chalice”… This is not said by way of command, but by way of allowance, viz., where and when it is agreeable to the practice and discipline of the church.

31 But if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But whilst we are judged, we are chastised by the Lord, that we be not condemned with this world. 33 Wherefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 If any man be hungry, let him eat at home; that you come not together unto judgment. And the rest I will set in order, when I come.
*

 

[reen12]

It’s as clear as day, considering the Christian scriptures:

-that people are to be baptized with water
-there is no other mediator, except Jesus himself
-that the eucharist is a memorial meal, not a sacrifice, and - at the same moment -
Jesus is present in the bread and wine [keeping in mind that Jesus chose the
ritual memorial meal, Passover - in which to establish his *own *memorial meal…
testifying to the saving act of God, in Jesus.

Jesus got things going - giving the keys to Peter, and when
his original church dropped the keys [the Barque now afloat on
a sea of frothy doctrines] others now had the scriptures -
which…one then assumes, God allowed the first church to gather together -
so that these writings might serve as a guide, to all Christians?

I am not suprised, at all, that - after 20 centuries, Christendom is
riven right down the middle. The ‘cornerstone’ wasn’t Jesus.
The cornerstone was the teaching concerning ontological sin.
No ontological sin, no need for a savior from same - since
God had already granted forgiveness, mercy, and eternal life,
in the earlier scriptures.

reen12

 

[fbl9]

this thread is giving me a headache,i think everyone here(this thread)must have their heads totally beaten to a pulp by now…

 

[reen12]

I am not suprised, at all, that - after 20 centuries, Christendom is
riven right down the middle. The ‘cornerstone’ wasn’t Jesus.
The cornerstone was the teaching concerning ontological sin.
No ontological sin, no need for a savior from same - since
God had already granted forgiveness, mercy, and eternal life,
in the earlier scriptures.

Now the debate continues over ontological change*, versus* imputation,
discussions pertaining to the final destiny of infants, who pass away unbaptized
[one is allowed to ‘hope’ that God grants them mercy.]
Is man wounded, in nature, or wholly depraved in nature…until laved with saving waters?

And all of these conversations made possible - standing on the platform
built by Saul…original sin.

I don’t believe that Jesus was a God/man.
Man is born in innocence, and sins during his/her lifetime.
God does not expect His human creatures to be perfect.
A human being, turning back to Him, is greeted with forgiveness.

Come now, let us set things right, says the Lord: Though your sins be like scarlet,
they may become white as snow…Is.1:18

Complexity and over-complication come from man, not God.

reen12 :tiphat:

 

[reen12]

this thread is giving me a headache,i think everyone here(this thread)must have their heads totally beaten to a pulp by now…

Not me. God is found in the relational [Father] not in
tomes of theology, methinks. [Spent decades, immersed
in same. No longer.]

Love God - leave the world a better place than one found it,
turn back to Him, when one sins, and there is a place for one,
in God’s presence, for eternity.

reen12

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Not me. God is found in the relational [Father] not in
tomes of theology, methinks. [Spent decades, immersed
in same. No longer.]

Love God - leave the world a better place than one found it,
turn back to Him, when one sins, and there is a place for one,
in God’s presence, for eternity.

reen12

Do you believe in hell or separation from God for some?

 

[guanophore]

It’s as clear as day, considering the Christian scriptures:

-that people are to be baptized with water

This is not the case, I mean, that it is clear as day. Search CAF for baptism and tabcom. You will find on his threads justification that “baptism” has nothing to do with water. It was a great eye opener for me, I can assure you.!

-there is no other mediator, except Jesus himself

Indeed, and equally clear that He brings others into the ministry of reconciliation with Him.

-that the eucharist is a memorial meal, not a sacrifice, and - at the same moment -
Jesus is present in the bread and wine [keeping in mind that Jesus chose the ritual memorial meal, Passover - in which to establish his *own memorial meal…testifying to the saving act of God, in Jesus.

I am curious. Why do you think He said “this is my body” and “this is my blood”?

Jesus got things going - giving the keys to Peter,

What, do you think, is the meaning of the “keys”?

and when his original church dropped the keys

Can you please identify where and when this happened?
reen12;4281860:

His original Church[the Barque now afloat on a sea of frothy doctrines] others now had the scriptures -which…one then assumes, God allowed the first church to gather together

Are you saying that the “first church” did not 'gather together" until the scriptures were given to “others” (not Catholic?)

so that these writings might serve as a guide, to all Christians? I am not suprised, at all, that - after 20 centuries, Christendom is riven right down the middle.

Do you believe that Jesus is a liar, or a weakling? He did have human flesh, and we know how weak that is…

The ‘cornerstone’ wasn’t Jesus.

Please help me again. I do not know of any Christian teaching that does not proclaim Jesus as the cornerstone?

The cornerstone was the teaching concerning ontological sin. No ontological sin, no need for a savior from same - since (God had already granted forgiveness, mercy, and eternal life ) in the earlier scriptures.

Please, I need help again. Scripture does not grand forgiveness, mercy, or eternal life, so I am confused.

What do you mean by “ontological sin” and what makes you say that there is none of it?

reen12

 

[guanophore]

this thread is giving me a headache,i think everyone here(this thread)must have their heads totally beaten to a pulp by now…

I think that is why the post limit is 1000. The moderators, God bless their souls, don’t want us to become meatheads.

 

[Lilyflower]

Really?

“From everyone to whom much has been given, much will be required; and from the one to whom much has been entrusted, even more will be demanded.” Luke 12:48

It sure sounds like Jesus expects more of us…

2 Peter 2:20-21 “They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them.”

I am curious what you think they mean. They make perfect sense to a Catholic, since we believe it is possble to be “made free from the evil of the world” yet return to evil, and have our last state be worse than our first.

However, I know that you don’t believe it is possible for a saved person to have “evil things control them”, since they have been transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light.

2 Peter 2:20-21 “They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them.”

Much has been entrusted to me, yet I still sin.

Aware of my own human frailty and disposition towards sin, as a Christian, it is my will to do the Will of God. But my flesh is indeed very weak. Therefore my constant cry to the HS to help me to bring my life back into obedience.

Though I am saved, I am also ‘at risk’ of failure to embrace the gift of being saved by my own evil passions and inclinations.

Jesus has saved me but every time I sin, I reject the gift of salvation.

Blessings and peace

 

[wina]

this thread is giving me a headache,i think everyone here(this thread)must have their heads totally beaten to a pulp by now…

Yes, but makes me headache because if I didn’t follow it only one day then it’s totally many posts I missed and it always happens because I’m not able to be online everyday
But I’ve learnt so many things here:thumbsup:

 

[benedictus2]

The elect are identified as those chosen in Christ by the Father “before the foundation of the world,” and further, those “foreknown, predestined, called, justified and glorified” by the Father in eternity (Eph 1:3ff; Rom 8:29ff), and yes, I find the scripture to state that the elect are the only ones who will be saved.

God does not operate on the basis of a “roll of the dice,” but He is purposeful in what He does; therefore, nothing is by fate, or by chance, which are purposeless.

I think you have put me on your ignore list becuase you did not have any comebacks on my post #812 (and other posts thereafter )which relates to the above.

As I said in that post.
If a) the elect (I am assuming here that this is only some of the total sum of humanity), were chosen before the foundation of the world, and
b) since God is the one who creates every person,
then based on your statement above,
God purposely created millions of people only so he can send them to Hell.

With a god like that, who needs the devil?

You did not reply to that so I am assuming you are in agreement with me here.

Does such heinous cruelty square with a loving God for you?

 

[sandusky]

Lilyflower:

Jesus has saved me but every time I sin, I reject the gift of salvation.

If you’re truly saved, that’s not true—even as a Catholic.

I think you’re being a bit over-dramatic.

 

[sandusky]

I think you have put me on your ignore list becuase you did not have any comebacks on my post #812 (and other posts thereafter )which relates to the above.

As I said in that post.
If a) the elect (I am assuming here that this is only some of the total sum of humanity), were chosen before the foundation of the world, and
b) since God is the one who creates every person,
then based on your statement above,
God purposely created millions of people only so he can send them to Hell.

With a god like that, who needs the devil?

You did not reply to that so I am assuming you are in agreement with me here.

Does such heinous cruelty square with a loving God for you?

No, you’re not on my ignore list, just don’t care for your Q’s, I’ve heard them many, many times.

If the thread’s still open this evening, I’ll look at this one, and the one prior to it again.

 

[reen12]

Judaism, in her wisdom, leaves many things undefined.
Interest is centered on this world, not the next.
Constant concern about salvation [heaven/hell] is simply not the focus.

---

Christianity actively seeks converts.
Christianity evangelizes - proclaiming a savior from both original sin and personal sin.

One Christian group may challenge the beliefs of another Christian group - and intramural evangelizing may take place, sometimes in the form of debate.

Yet the assumption is shared, by Christians - that Jesus was a God/man - come to save man from both original sin and personal sin.
God is now proclaimed a trinity of three persons in one God.

---

‘Why…?’

“Explain to me…”

‘How come…’

‘It says…’

“Salvation depends on…”

are oft heard -

in the debates that take place, between Christians of different denominations.

To Christians, the existence of a savior - from original sin and
personal sin, is a ‘live question.’ It is ‘foreground.’ It is of interest.

If one holds that one’s salvation rests on a God/man,
of course this would be of interest.

reen12

 

[reen12]

Judaism, in her wisdom, leaves many things undefined.

Interest is centered on this world, not the next.
Constant concern about salvation [heaven/hell] is simply not the focus.

---

Christianity actively seeks converts.
Christianity evangelizes - proclaiming a savior from both original sin and personal sin.

One Christian group may challenge the beliefs of another Christian group - and intramural apologetics may take place, sometimes in the form of debate.

Yet the assumption is shared, by Christians - that Jesus was a God/man - come to save man from both original sin and personal sin.
God is now proclaimed a trinity of three persons in one God.

reen12

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

No, you’re not on my ignore list, just don’t care for your Q’s, I’ve heard them many, many times.

If the thread’s still open this evening, I’ll look at this one, and the one prior to it again.

You can’t answer them, so you ignore them.

 

[reen12]

Christianity actively seeks converts, and evangelizes -
proclaiming a savior from both original sin and personal sin.

One Christian group may challenge the beliefs of another Christian group -
and intramural apologetics may take place…sometimes in the form of debate.

Yet the assumption is shared, by Christians - as they
enter into debate, that Jesus was a God/man, who came
to save man from both original sin and personal sin.

God is now proclaimed a trinity of three persons in one deity.

I note that there is, in fact, much shared, by Christians of all churches.

reen12

 

[Wyatt]

It just occured to me that I have never regreted my conversion. When I was saved, no one told me that I have to leave the Catholic religion, I simply believed that Jesus Christ paid for my sins with his blood and I called upon him to save me: just like the Philipian jailer in Acts 16:31. He asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved…” He did, and he was. To the saved believer, the thought of someone trying to administer God’s grace through some ritual is the highest form of idolatry there is. Jesus said, “it is finished”, not ‘it’s begun’.

I just hope that people will see that God’s grace is through faith in Christ and not in some man made rituals. May the Lord truly bless every one who is seeking to know him in truth.

It’s a shame you have cut yourself off from the very Body and Blood that you believe saved you, the same Body and Blood that is present in the Holy Eucharist.

 

[reen12]

Judaism - in her wisdom, leaves many things undefined.

Interest is centered on this world, not the next.
Constant concern about salvation [heaven/hell] is simply not the focus.
Converts are not sought. Judaism is not a proslytizing faith.

All one need do is to follow the natural law - that God gives to each human being,
while acknowledging Him as the one God, and holding His Name sacred.

Man is born in innocence, and sins during his/her lifetime - and God forgives sin,
extending mercy, when a human being turns back to Him.

Come now, let us set things right, says the Lord: Though your sins be like scarlet, they may become white as snow…Is.1:18

God does not expect perfection in His human creatures.

Man complicates, not God.

reen12

 

[guanophore]

It’s a shame you have cut yourself off from the very Body and Blood that you believe saved you, the same Body and Blood that is present in the Holy Eucharist.

You know, it may be that he never believed that. I find that most Catholics have no idea what they are leaving (I know, because I was one!).

No one who understood Cathlicism would make a statement like
“I was converted from Catholicism to Christ at the age of 19”. A person who undersands Catholicism does not need to “convert to Christ”.