I was converted from Catholicism to Christ at the age of 19.

[jmcrae]

Nope.

Good. Then why did Jesus make sure we understood that the servant was a member of the household (ie: “saved”) prior to his fall from grace?

 

[sandusky]

Good. Then why did Jesus make sure we understood that the servant was a member of the household (ie: “saved”) prior to his fall from grace?

Which household? Where is grace is mentioned?

ISTM, you’re engaging in a whole lotta assumin’.

 

[jmcrae]

Which household?

The Master’s household. We agree that the servants are supposed to represent the Church, and the Master is supposed to represent Jesus, right?

Where is grace is mentioned?

He was in the house, and then he got ejected from the house. It’s an expression - if I get fired from my job for doing something stupid, I “fell from grace” = became unemployed.

ISTM, you’re engaging in a whole lotta assumin’.

 

[sandusky]

The Master’s household. We agree that the servants are supposed to represent the Church, and the Master is supposed to represent Jesus, right?

FYI, He’s speaking to the Jews; there was no church at that time.

jmcrae:

He was in the house, and then he got ejected from the house. It’s an expression - if I get fired from my job for doing something stupid, I “fell from grace” = became unemployed.

As I said, a whole lotta assumin’ goin’ on.

 

[guanophore]

I don’t give those things much attention. The opening of Hebrews 1 makes it clear that no more revelation is forthcoming with the death of the apostles, and the close of the scripture.

I am very interested to know how you deduce this from Heb. 1.

 

[Lilyflower]

Aware of my own human frailty and disposition towards sin, as a Christian, it is my will to do the Will of God. But my flesh is indeed very weak. Therefore my constant cry to the HS to help me to bring my life back into obedience.

Though I am saved, I am also ‘at risk’ of failure to embrace the gift of being saved by my own evil passions and inclinations.

Jesus has saved me but every time I sin, I reject the gift of salvation.

If you’re truly saved, that’s not true—even as a Catholic.

I think you’re being a bit over-dramatic.

My weakness and vulnerability to sin makes me unworthy of the Gift. I would ask the Lord to let me go and prepare myself, else I would consider that I was there on false pretences.

Every time I sin I fail, no excuses, no mitigation, no witnesses, I am ‘banged to rights!’ I did it, no one else, it was me!

If I am saved but then I turn away from the Lord and chose not to follow Him anymore, I have of my own volition rejected the gift of Salvation [God forbid]!

Rather like turning up at a wedding feast covered in mud. The Groom says ‘take your place’ but you reply 'I am not worthy to be here, look I am unclean, let me go first to clean myself up so that when I come back I am not only clean but have prepared myself.

It would be entirely at the Lord’s mercy whether He would grant my request. The choice would be His not mine to make. He is the Judge!

 

[sandusky]

I am very interested to know how you deduce this from Heb. 1.

I’m sure you are, and I would state that I agree with the paragraph in the catechism addressing the two verses.

 

[peary]

It just occured to me that I have never regreted my conversion. When I was saved, no one told me that I have to leave the Catholic religion, I simply believed that Jesus Christ paid for my sins with his blood and I called upon him to save me: just like the Philipian jailer in Acts 16:31. He asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved…” He did, and he was. To the saved believer, the thought of someone trying to administer God’s grace through some ritual is the highest form of idolatry there is. Jesus said, “it is finished”, not ‘it’s begun’.

I just hope that people will see that God’s grace is through faith in Christ and not in some man made rituals. May the Lord truly bless every one who is seeking to know him in truth.

**Good for you. I guess ignorance is bliss. **

 

[Robert_in_SD]

I never take a dare for the sole purpose of proving someone wrong.

So long, Robert.

I was not daring you. I was asking you, after responding to all of your requests, to return the same courtesy, or at least make an attempt at doing so. The ultimatum was the result of your history of refusals to respond in kind.

You’ve only raised some interesting, but ultimately unsupported tangential issues, which I have enjoyed discussing with you. I don’t know why you are now refusing to address the main issue head-on - the basis for your knowing with absolute certainty that you are predestined and not deceived.

You could have at least tried to answer the question for the sole purpose of … well, answering the question.

Peace,
-Robert

 

[sandusky]

Robert in SD:

You could have at least tried to answer the question for the sole purpose of … well, answering the question.

You’ve made it absolutely clear that absolute assurance, according to your church, is absolutely impossible until the moment of death; therefore, I find it absolutely pointless for me to enter into a discussion concerning absolute assurance in absolutely any way.

 

[Lilyflower]

You’ve made it absolutely clear that absolute assurance, according to your church, is absolutely impossible until the moment of death; therefore, I find it absolutely pointless for me to enter into a discussion concerning absolute assurance in absolutely any way.

So a person once saved, can reject Christ, become a satanist [small ‘s’ intended], commit the most heinous of crimes and he is still saved and numbered among the Saints?

By your definition Adolf Hitler is numbered among the Saints!

Those he sent to the gas chambers who did not accept Christ are damned but the instigator of innumerable suffering and death on an incredulous unprecendented scale, is numbered among the Saints?

You could be right. Logic fails me here.

Blessings and peace

 

[Robert_in_SD]

You’ve made it absolutely clear that absolute assurance, according to your church, is absolutely impossible until the moment of death; therefore, I find it absolutely pointless for me to enter into a discussion concerning absolute assurance in absolutely any way.

:dts: You can tell yourself whatever makes you feel better, Sandy. But up to this point Catholic teaching and my personal belief have not stopped you from posting your position on other *hotly *disputed points of doctrine.

Peace,
-Robert

 

[sandusky]

So a person once saved, can reject Christ, become a satanist [small ‘s’ intended], commit the most heinous of crimes and he is still saved and numbered among the Saints?

By your definition Adolf Hitler is numbered among the Saints!

Those he sent to the gas chambers who did not accept Christ are damned but the instigator of innumerable suffering and death on an incredulous unprecendented scale, is numbered among the Saints?

You could be right. Logic fails me here.

Blessings and peace

Both of those mentioned above could be restored in the Catholic Church if they made a “good confession.”

 

[coleraine]

Both of those mentioned above could be restored in the Catholic Church if they made a “good confession.”

and what of it? do you doubt gods unyielding love? the people stated above would not have repented before they died. what would god say to them in heaven? that they are evil but still deserve everlasting joy?

 

[sandusky]

:dts: You can tell yourself whatever makes you feel better, Sandy. But up to this point Catholic teaching and my personal belief have not stopped you from posting your position on other *hotly *disputed points of doctrine.

Peace,
-Robert

Those “hotly” disputed points are interesting; I’m not that interesting.

 

[sandusky]

do you doubt gods unyielding love?

I don’t, but it seems that Lilyflower does.

 

[De_Maria]

.

De Maria, you’ve still not answered my question:

.Matthew 5:29

29 “If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Matthew 18:8

8 “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire…
:coffeeread:

You dodged my message. But I answered yours before and I’ll answer it again.

Apparently, you are one of those who take every word of Scripture literally. We don’t. We know which is metaphor, which is parable and which is literal. These are examples of exaggerations to make a point. They are not to be taken literally. Point being, there is nothing worse than hell and nothing better than heaven. So, work out your salvation in fear and trembling.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[Ronald_E]

Hi Benedictus,
I do not know the teaching on predestination. Just from reading Is6: 9-13, Jn 12:40, Acts 28:26, Rm 11:8-20 it appears the elect are those who have the responsibility of teaching the world about God.
Since God is Love, then it would seem that everything written and passed down through Tradition must be interpreted through God’s Love.
How we speak or write about God either exhibits how we have grown in God’s Love or have not grown.
An example of God’s Love was recently told to me. It is in an earlier post. I was told about an atheistic mean alcoholic who is now in his mid to late 60’s. He died in April of '05. He was pronounce dead for 20 minutes. He has medical records to prove this. While dead he described being surrounded by a beautiful light and heard beautiful singing. He felt joy and love he had never experienced before. From this light appeared John Paul II.
JP II then approached him and gave him a blessing. At that point he states he came back to life. He is totally changed and loves “that Pope”.
He was later told that he died the same day as John Paul II.
What is God trying to tell us? It is not just a nice story.
I would be interested in hearing what Sandusky might have to say about this miracle.

 

[Ronald_E]

I don’t give those things much attention. The opening of Hebrews 1 makes it clear that no more revelation is forthcoming with the death of the apostles, and the close of the scripture.

Are you saying that you are rejecting a clear example of God’s Love for everyone? I do not understand. This is a gift of Grace to all of us if we can see it. If any of us dismiss this example or not see the real significance of this, then I cannot say anymore.

 

[sandusky]

You dodged my message. But I answered yours before and I’ll answer it again.

Apparently, you are one of those who take every word of Scripture literally. We don’t. We know which is metaphor, which is parable and which is literal. These are examples of exaggerations to make a point. They are not to be taken literally. Point being, there is nothing worse than hell and nothing better than heaven. So, work out your salvation in fear and trembling.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Not the dodge charge again.

A pint of grace?