I Was HORRIFIED By Mass Today. It Was Really Strange?

[CesarAugustus]

And I’m from South America and I don’t like dancing and clapping in Mass.

Some of the so called “cultural” additions to the Mass are the product of Priests and Parish people involved in Pastoral work that like to experiment, and not something the people necessarily wants.

Blessings!

 

[Nicea325]

And I’m from South America and I don’t like dancing and clapping in Mass.

Some of the so called “cultural” additions to the Mass are the product of Priests and Parish people involved in Pastoral work that like to experiment, and not something the people necessarily wants.

Blessings!

I agree. Problem I encounter is that many people want to push or add cultural traditions to the Mass, I personally think it opens up a can of worms.

 

[504Katrin]

I think God might be on to something here lol…
Just bring it up in prayer and listen to what he says to you. He won’t leave you alone with it that’s for sure.

 

[CesarAugustus]

Well said Nicea325.

Ans is a kind of patronizing attitude too.

Because is a tropical place, or in the southern hemisphere, it doesn’t mean that people is not going to understand the Mass or another activity if is not done with loud music, dancing and stuff.

Blessings!

 

[GraceDK]

All Im saying is, lets not presume that our own cultural expression is superior or more pleasing to God than eg. the African way of having mass, which I posted from youtube.

 

[Splagchnizomai]

I’d like to mention that I was once told by my friend, who is a priest, that “Mass is mass, wherever in the world it is, it is always the same.”

With this in mind I find it difficult to blame culture, anyway I’m still open to suggestions.

Go to Mass. Humble yourself. Mass is Mass – it doesn’t mean that Mass is going look European all over the world. Think deeply, pray deeply. Go to Mass. Don’t look for excuses to miss Mass because of your personal objections and subjective interpretation of what’s going on.

Go to Mass.

 

[malphono]

And I’m from South America and I don’t like dancing and clapping in Mass.

And apparently you’re not alone. Brasil, for example, which one can say is the paradigm of dancing and fun, has a diocese where the Usus Antiquior is the rule rather than the exception.

Some of the so called “cultural” additions to the Mass are the product of Priests and Parish people involved in Pastoral work that like to experiment, and not something the people necessarily wants.

Yes. And to me, at least, it sounds like the OP was faced with an overdose of “inculturation” (of which I’m not a huge fan in the first place, precisely because it tends to be overdone).

 

[garn9173]

Was it an actual Church? The new start-up Parish were I live does not have a place to call home and is renting space from an elementary school to have their Sunday morning Mass. What the OP is describing about the environment (no pews, no true altar, etc.) make it sound like it’s not an actual Church.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I really think this thread should just be closed. I predict major derail within a few posts…

OP, I exhort you to take the advice given of trying to discern with the priest and, if need be, the bishop, of whether or not this Mass was abusive.

 

[Brooklyn]

Culture is not a justification for abuses.

No matter where is the place, a Mass should be celebrated with dignity and reverence.

Blessings!



P.S. Try to get documents regarding proper Liturgy, these would come in handy when speaking with the Priest or the Bishop.

I second this post. You need to talk with a good, solid priest about what you experienced, and I don’t know if the pastor of this particular church is the one. I think you eventually need to talk to him, but you should be really grounded in what is right and wrong in a Mass before you speak with him. Is there any way you can contact the priest where you use to live, or is there some other priest who could help you out?

I don’t think that coming to a forum like this is going to help you because all you’re basically getting here is opinions. You need solid facts on which to act.

Personally, I couldn’ take one minute in a Mass like this. :nope:

 

[Usagi]

So to Sum up:

1. Priest didnt use words of absolution.

The words of absolution would be used in Confession, not during Mass. Do you mean the words of consecration? That would certainly be a problem, but you did say the priest consecrated the Eucharist and you received Communion, so I am thinking that is not it.

1. The church didnt use catholic style hymns and used instruments like drums, tambourines etc.

That could be a cultural matter, and is not necessarily an abuse (though it might be, if the norms applying to that parish do not allow for it).

1. The Priest as well as 15 other people of all ages, and genders were wearing exactly the same robes.

If they were truly exactly the same, that would be wrong, since the priest’s vestments are closely specified and other people should not be duplicating his “look” to avoid confusion.

1. Those robes had Triquetra symbols on them.

That one makes perfect sense. You said the parish was called Holy Trinity, and the triquetra is an obvious symbol of the Trinity. Totally Catholic.

1. People were dancing, twisting their bodies and clapping, + raising hands.

That would weird me out, as well, but that may just be the way things are done, either in that parish, that diocese, or that country/culture as a whole. You should investigate.

1. The church was noisy from singing, during and after receiving communion.

That is unfortunate, and time for silence should be made.

1. I was refused communion in the mouth.

Okay, that one is a definite abuse. Where more than one mode of reception is allowed, the choice is the parishioner’s, and the person giving Communion may not refuse based on that choice.

1. People were asked to say the National anthem, just after receiving communion.

A bit weird, but could be another cultural thing. If you have any way of finding out what things are like at other parishes in the area, you can at least determine if this one is normal or strange by local standards.

1. There was no proper altar in the church.

That one could be abusive or not; I’m not sure what the precise norms are. I know that modern altars tend to resemble tables, but the ones I’ve seen are still fairly solid masses of wood, not regular tables with legs. A priest can say Mass on the hood of a Jeep, as many military chaplains have demonstrated, but I’m sure there are rules about the composition of a proper church altar.

1. Just a regular mass lasted 2 1/2 hours.

Unexpected for an OF Latin Rite liturgy (the Eastern liturgies are often quite long, I understand), but not abusive. If the parishioners enjoy spending a long time in worship, that should be commended.

1. The priest used threatening body language.

Again, that would probably weird me out, but it could be a cultural thing. It sounds as though the parish has a heavy Charismatic/Pentecostal influence, so vigorous preaching and gesturing (the kind you more often see from TV preachers rather than Catholic priests in my country, the U.S.) might be an aspect of that.

To sum up, you encountered a couple of genuine abuses and a whole lot of culture shock. (Whether the culture in question is that of the entire country or just of that one parish has yet to be determined. Of course, since you can’t get to another parish, it won’t exactly help you to learn that your parish is “the weird one,” unless you plan to pursue this vigorously with the bishop.)

Usagi

 

[Bartolome_Casas]

If that is the only place where mass is available to you, then I believe Canon Law says that you would be justified in not going to mass, since such a mass is a threat to your faith and the faith of your neighbors.

So, just don’t go there.

There’s no use getting upset by all the wacky priests and masses out there. Why the bishops allow this to go one is a mystery to me and to many Catholics. But it is not our business. We are not bishops, we are not the pope.

It really is enough for us to get on with our own lives in a good and holy manner.

It is tempting to think that we are being holy if we try to do something an unholy mass or an unholy priest. But I’ve never seen that work. The priests and bishops are in a class of their own. They rule that world. We must accept our role as lay people.

But, the good news I think is that for every unholy or insane priest, there are two or three or ten good priests celebrating good and holy masses. I say we should just give our support to the good priests, and let God or the bishops or the pope hadn’t the priests who’ve run off the rails.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

If that is the only place where mass is available to you, then I believe Canon Law says that you would be justified in not going to mass, since such a mass is a threat to your faith and the faith of your neighbors.

I am not aware of any such Canon.

One must be very careful in such statements. If there is no such Canon (which I believe is so) and the poster follows your advice then you will be guilty of a mortal sin due to the fact that you have lead the poster into mortal sin.

I would suggest that if you wish to make comments such as this (or say the Church says) that you post at least a link or a reference to an actual Church source to show it.

 

[coachkfan1]

I agree with those who say that this is mostly cultural, with some obvious liturgical abuse. However, I also agree with the idea that cultural differences are no excuse for liturgical abuse including in some of our churches here in the United States. So it seems as if this Parrish needs an overseer or bishop to instruct and develop the practice of the Mass. The question is does the Catholic Church not have the recourses, both men and money, to make that happen, or do some people who could effect change in not only this Parrish but in the country, not find it worthwhile enough to bother with. I am also speaking of each one of us to make change in our own communities. I do not, however, envy being in the situation that the op is in.

 

[tbmeg]

Hi All,
I´m from Africa living in Europe. Well, I agree with those who say the OP went through a cultural shock. In my country, there´s also a lot of singing, dancing, druming etc during Mass. Mass MUST NOT be celebrated in the quiet european fashion.

Most people in the carribeans are of African descent and you wouldnt really think some aspects of their culture wouldnt be incorporated in Mass. . That´s just the way it is!We´re all Gods children and I doubt God will be strict as to the way he´s being worshipped. But if it bothers you so much, try talking to the Bishop as was suggested. I doubt anything will be done about it but a try might be worth it!

Have a blessed sunday!

 

[GraceDK]

Hi All,
I´m from Africa living in Europe. Well, I agree with those who say the OP went through a cultural shock. In my country, there´s also a lot of singing, dancing, druming etc during Mass. Mass MUST NOT be celebrated in the quiet european fashion.

Most people in the carribeans are of African descent and you wouldnt really think some aspects of their culture wouldnt be incorporated in Mass. . That´s just the way it is!We´re all Gods children and I doubt God will be strict as to the way he´s being worshipped. But if it bothers you so much, try talking to the Bishop as was suggested. I doubt anything will be done about it but a try might be worth it!

Have a blessed sunday!

 

[thequeen]

Kieron,
I once went to an African Mass. Lots of clapping, dancing and african accent preaching… But thats alright. Thats why we call ourselves the UNIVERSAL Church… means the other rites and ways are as good as the European one

Of course if the Pastor said that homosexual marriage or such things are okay, thats a completely different issue and its a problem.

You are so right, we have a Nigerian community in our Parish and they have a monthly mass that is much more lively than the other masses at our Parish and we just love the priest who celebrates it

 

[mattkubes]

If they’re going to claim to be Latin Rite Catholics, they should follow the Latin Rite. Cultural expressions of emotion are not an excuse for grave abuses in the liturgy. What a sad, tired, politically correct excuse for irreverence before the King of Kings.

ETA: This is in response to some of the things mentioned in the OP. I have not read all the replies in this thread.

 

[tbmeg]

If they’re going to claim to be Latin Rite Catholics, they should follow the Latin Rite. Cultural expressions of emotion are not an excuse for grave abuses in the liturgy. What a sad, tired, politically correct excuse for irreverence before the King of Kings.

ETA: This is in response to some of the things mentioned in the OP. I have not read all the replies in this thread.

Please try to read all the replies on the thread.

 

[mattkubes]

Please try to read all the replies on the thread.

I’ve been doing that in the meantime. They are far from encouraging.