I was married and divorced before I even believed in God

[NewSSPMN]

I was married and divorced before I even believed in God. The marriage was held in front of a J.P. I am now a practicing Catholic. Why do I need to get that marriage annulled before I can marry as a Catholic?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Because a marriage between non Catholics is presumed to be a valid marriage. What is important is not your state of mind AFTER the marriage (now that you ‘believe in God’) but whether you were able to give a valid consent to a valid marriage at the time you were married. It is possible that you were not–and that is why the marriage must be investigated. If it is the case that for a good reason (lack of understanding, lack of full consent) you were not able to give valid consent, the tribunal will give a ‘decree of nullity’. . .this means, not that the marriage ‘never happened’, but that for a valid reason, you or your partner were not capable of making a valid contract.

So, as a non Catholic marrying another non Catholic, you are presumably validly married to that person. (Unless, of course, you married a CATHOLIC in front of a JP. In that case, the marriage would be automatically invalid, as no Catholic may marry, unless given a ‘dispensation’ by the bishop, outside a Catholic church).

 

[jmcrae]

So, as a non Catholic marrying another non Catholic, you are presumably validly married to that person. (Unless, of course, you married a CATHOLIC in front of a JP. In that case, the marriage would be automatically invalid, as no Catholic may marry, unless given a ‘dispensation’ by the bishop, outside a Catholic church).

Even in the “automatic” case, you still need to receive paperwork from the Marriage Tribunal that shows in writing that no marriage was ever validly contracted. (This takes less than a week, once you get your side of the paperwork in order.)

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Right. Any ‘prior marriage’ claim should be discussed with your priest, and everything should be checked and double checked with the diocese tribunal.

 

[Seatuck]

Because God believed in you and you may have had the ability to contract a marriage before him whether you believed in him or not.However, you should talk with your priest since you may not have validly contracted a marriage.

 

[NewSSPMN]

Ok so please help me to understand…if niether her nor I reconized God in our life and our marriage and even through the divorce why would the Church?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Because God doesn’t depend on OUR recognizing HIS existence.

IOW, He was ‘there’ in your marriage whether you recognized Him or not.

 

[NewSSPMN]

Okay I can accept that…. please don’t think that I am trying to argue. I am truly searching for a better understanding of His will and follow the teachings of the Catholic Church. As I was an atheist, and she was an agnostic and those can both be considered a religion even though they are non-religious. Their standard for marriage and divorce is confined by the laws in the state of which it took place not the Catholic standard. And as happy as I am to be rid of her, I would have never divorced her. It was her that abandoned me and divorced me. Is that sufficient for an annulment? Why does the Catholic church need to annul a marriage from another “religion”.

 

[puzzleannie]

The Catholic Church recognizes any marriage between non-Catholics as valid, no matter what their religious affiliation (or lack of it) and no matter who witnessed it (preacher, judge, rabbi etc), or where (chapel, beach, courthouse etc). This is because the Catholic Church recognizes marriage as God established it, through mutual consent of one man and one woman. Catholics have additional rules they must abide by (witness must be a priest or a deacon etc). , but those do not apply to non-Catholics. Think for a minute how bad it would be of the Catholic Church did NOT recognize marriages of non-members.

The conditions for a valid marriage are the same for everyone: both parties must be free to marry (no previous valid marriage), they must both intend and consent to all that marriage implies, they must do it of their free will, without force (a shotgun marriage would be invalid, for instance). There cannot be any impediments in natural law (incest etc).

If a divorced person seeks to marry a Catholic, their previous marriage must be investigated by the canon law tribunal to see if it is valid, because the Catholic party is obliged to follow canon law. If after investigation the first marriage is found to be invalid, the tribunal issues a decree of nullity (there is really no such thing as an annulment–a valid marriage cannot be nullified). Then the parties are free to marry, because actually, they have never been married before.

if you search on this forum under annulment you will find a lot of great links with more detailed explanations. The grounds for annulment come under three general categories: consent, natural law impediments, or canon law impediments, but there are many grounds, too many to discuss, so the only way to find out is go to the nearest parish and talk to the pastor about beginning the investigation process.

 

[Illini]

Were you baptized at the time of your marriage? If not, then the Pauline privilege may apply. Marriages between non-baptized persons are not sacramental, and one party who seeks to become Christian may obtain a divorce and dissolve the non-sacramental marriage “in favor of the faith.” Considering the faith status of both you and your former spouse, this privilege may be applicable.

 Check with your pastor to see what can be done.

-Illini

 

[Sure]

Were you baptized at the time of your marriage? If not, then the Pauline privilege may apply. Marriages between non-baptized persons are not sacramental, and one party who seeks to become Christian may obtain a divorce and dissolve the non-sacramental marriage “in favor of the faith.” Considering the faith status of both you and your former spouse, this privilege may be applicable.

 Check with your pastor to see what can be done.

-Illini

This is correct. If you were both unbaptized the Church could give you permission to marry another and your first marriage would be dissolved by the second marriage.

 

[jmcrae]

This is correct. If you were both unbaptized the Church could give you permission to marry another and your first marriage would be dissolved by the second marriage.

And yet again, this is a matter for the Tribunal to decide; not the individuals who are affected (who have emotional and personal reasons to rule in their own favour - I have never met anyone who was the “guilty party” of a divorce, or not eligible or deserving to be remarried, according to their own judgement; have you?) - again, I say, take all the facts to the Tribunal, and let’s let them figure it all out, because they will discern the truth of the matter, and they will be able to give the best advice on how to proceed.

A good rule to go by is: All marriages are valid until they have officially been ruled not valid by the Marriage Tribunal - even marriages that on the surface seem “obviously” invalid, and even doubtful marriages that have yet to be blessed and made sure in the Church.

 

[Sure]

And yet again, this is a matter for the Tribunal to decide; not the individuals who are affected (who have emotional and personal reasons to rule in their own favour - I have never met anyone who was the “guilty party” of a divorce, or not eligible or deserving to be remarried, according to their own judgement; have you?) - again, I say, take all the facts to the Tribunal, and let’s let them figure it all out, because they will discern the truth of the matter, and they will be able to give the best advice on how to proceed.

A good rule to go by is: All marriages are valid until they have officially been ruled not valid by the Marriage Tribunal - even marriages that on the surface seem “obviously” invalid, and even doubtful marriages that have yet to be blessed and made sure in the Church.

Of course, that’s why I said, “The Church could give permission.” And that is accomplished through the diocesan marriage tribunal.

 

[1ke]

Okay I can accept that…. please don’t think that I am trying to argue. I am truly searching for a better understanding of His will and follow the teachings of the Catholic Church. As I was an atheist, and she was an agnostic and those can both be considered a religion even though they are non-religious. Their standard for marriage and divorce is confined by the laws in the state of which it took place not the Catholic standard. And as happy as I am to be rid of her, I would have never divorced her. It was her that abandoned me and divorced me. Is that sufficient for an annulment? Why does the Catholic church need to annul a marriage from another “religion”.

I suggest you obtain the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster. It will explain many aspects of the Catholic teaching on marriage.

There are many things to consider-- whether either of you were baptized at any point, your intent and consent at the time of the marriage, impediments, etc.

It’s really much more than can be adequately covered here in this format.

Marriage is a natural estate created by God, from the first man and woman. Therefore, it is not limited to Christians only. The Church presumes all marriages are valid until shown to be otherwise. Marriage between baptized persons are also sacraments and if valid also indissoluable. Marriage between unbaptized persons are “good and natural” marriages. Good and natural marriages are dissolvable under certain circumstances.

So, there are many things for you to learn and then discuss with your priest.

 

[cameron_lansing]

This is correct. If you were both unbaptized the Church could give you permission to marry another and your first marriage would be dissolved by the second marriage. . . .
that’s why I said, “The Church could give permission.” And that is accomplished through the diocesan marriage tribunal.

Be aware, however, that the dissolution of marriage by Pauline privilege (see canon 1143+) is not a tribunal process involving the nullity of marriage but a favor declared by the local ordinary. It is an act of executive power since it is the granting of a privilege (see canon 76+) and not the exercise of judicial power (canons 1400+).

While the power to grant this privilege can be delegated to someone at the tribunal, usually a judicial vicar, it need not be so. An inquiry directed to the tribunal though would be sufficient, and its staff can direct the person to the proper authority in the diocese.

Although we might informally speak of a “marriage tribunal,” the simple designation of “tribunal” would be the correct one. Tribunals consider other types of cases (nullity of ordination, penal processes, other contentious matters) and not just those regarding the nullity of marriage.

It really is best to take any concrete inquiry to the parish priest, and he can make ready contact with the diocese and its canonists. Applying the law to someone’s case or interpreting the law over the internet has certain built in limitations and dangers.