I was open to Orthodoxy but...

[lax16]

You have to learn go for a ride with the Holy Spirit, bunker down, and keep living out your faith, and keep your eyes off men.

Amen to that.

 

[lax16]

Precisely what bothers the rest of us (Christians not in communion with Rome) is that we don’t see justification in Scripture or Tradition for the idea that one particular Christian bishop ought to “have the world on his shoulders.”

Rome as center of communion, sure. Even infallibility I can perhaps accept if carefully qualified. But a man with the world on his shoulders? Clearly an unorthodox innovation.

Edwin

Blessed John Paul II definitely took this role seriously. We have been told that he constantly repented for the sins of man.

Saint Padre Pio as well. Not a pope, but a very holy priest.

Having the world on their shoulders is the sign of a very holy person.

This is why the Holy Spirit has chosen them to lead the Church and guide us in these very troubled times. They feel the weight of the world’s troubles quite literally. Isn’t that what makes a person a saint? To feel things that the rest of us cannot?? And to respond to these concerns in a very insightful and Christian manner…

Really, the pope does not act alone. He has had great formation over the years and is surrounded by those who have shown great intellect to help him.

It is almost impossible to imagine Christ’s Church without a leader - if Jesus didn’t single Peter out, well I guess then maybe…but He did.

 

[jam070406]

Our Lord’s words to Peter must be read in the context of other injunctions given to the apostles as a whole. I am not disputing that there is a special Petrine ministry. I’m saying that it is to be carried out in communion with the Church as a whole,

There are alot of preconceived notions in these comments. Why would you assume that Rome is not intent on the exact understanding you just described? We cannot base it on what people think Rome’s intentions are. Why would you assume that Rome doesn’t want to carry out this mission in communion with the Church as whole?

 

[lax16]

Do the Orthodox leaders ever make statements against the evils of the world - if so, do they speak for all of Orthodoxy or just their particular group (Greek, Russian, etc)?

 

[Cavaradossi]

Do the Orthodox leaders ever make statements against the evils of the world - if so, do they speak for all of Orthodoxy or just their particular group (Greek, Russian, etc)?

They speak for the whole Orthodoxy in some ways, yet in other ways, we have to remember that they are only fielding personal opinions. Much in the same way that when you see one member of a group saying something it colors your perception of that group, so too when one leader speaks, must he be conscious that he is not only speaking his own private opinion but also serving as a spokesperson for all of Orthodoxy. The statements of a Patriarch are only opinions in the end however. When it comes to making any sort of binding official opinions, only synods and ecumenical councils would have the authority to do that (with synods speaking for one individual church and ecumenical councils speaking for the whole of Orthodoxy).

 

[Contarini]

I didn’t pick that up at all from the previous poster’s comment. I highly doubt he believes the Pope works alone.

He was specifically speaking about infallibility. Sure, he didn’t say the Pope worked alone–in fact, that was one of the odd things about the post, since talked about the Pope’s “staff” affirming his decisions as if that had something to do with the charism of infallibility. What I objected to was the picture of the Pope as the head of a pyramid-like organization, the one with whom the “buck stops,” instead of the center of a communion.

Even Benedict asked that we pray he be spared from the wolves. It’s just a simple fact that he is the focal point. The world looks to him. Honestly, who else steps up to address the issues of the world?

Why does one person need to do this? Jesus established a Body. We all need each other. The focus on the individual personality of the Pope is a modern innovation that is harming Catholic ecclesiology. Pope Benedict has done a lot to try to counteract this, which I think is a result both of his more retiring personality (compared to his predecessor) and his theological understanding.

He does carry a heavy burden. And I don’t believe it’s some power grab

I never said it was. That’s a straw man. Motivation isn’t the question. Conformity with the Tradition is the question. The atrophy of the other organs of the Mystical Body is the question. Again, I think that Pope Benedict recognizes this, but he’s in a difficult position.

So, while people cry that he just mind his own business.

I’m certainly not one of those.

We can’t continue to live in the past.

An odd statement for an orthodox Catholic to make. Isn’t Catholicism supposed to represent eternal truth?

It’s not the 19th century.

Well, much of what I’m objecting to was developed in the 19th century (though much of it is older, admittedly)

You’re attributing much more anti-papal views to me than I hold. I accept the authority of the Pope. I have a problem with the way it has developed in the last millennium, and more particularly since the collapse of the “throne and altar” alliances in 19th-century Europe (a collapse which was in itself, on the whole, a good thing in my opinion).

Edwin

 

[Nicea325]

You’re attributing much more anti-papal views to me than I hold. I accept the authority of the Pope. I have a problem with the way it has developed in the last millennium, and more particularly since the collapse of the “throne and altar” alliances in 19th-century Europe (a collapse which was in itself, on the whole, a good thing in my opinion).

And was it that you do not like?

An odd statement for an orthodox Catholic to make. Isn’t Catholicism supposed to represent eternal truth?

Yes and what does everyone’s opinion about everything have to do with Eternal Truth?

 

[jam070406]

He was specifically speaking about infallibility. Sure, he didn’t say the Pope worked alone–in fact, that was one of the odd things about the post, since talked about the Pope’s “staff” affirming his decisions as if that had something to do with the charism of infallibility.

I don’t even know where to go with this. The poster can clarify his own thought.
I apologize for interjecting on his behalf.

What I objected to was the picture of the Pope as the head of a pyramid-like organization, the one with whom the “buck stops,” instead of the center of a communion.

I’m not sure what Popes held to such an idea of the “buck stops” and not the center of a communion. I don’t believe the Church teaches that. The Magisterum makes up the Pope in union with the Bishops in communion with him.

Why does one person need to do this?

Who said one person does? This is your preconceived notion.

Jesus established a Body. We all need each other.

Yes, of course. But He felt we also needed the Papacy. Who I am to question God?

The focus on the individual personality of the Pope is a modern innovation that is harming Catholic ecclesiology.

I’m not sure who’s focusing on the “individual personality” of the Pope. The Papacy has actually been a voice of reason in a world gone mad. I don’t see it harmed at all. In fact liberalism has tried to destroy the Papacy in the last 40 years or so and failed. Benedict has upheld orthodoxy and is cleansing the Church. If anything he has strengthened the Catholic identity in the world and preserved absolute Truth in the face of opposition.

Pope Benedict has done a lot to try to counteract this, which I think is a result both of his more retiring personality (compared to his predecessor) and his theological understanding.

He is a wonderful Pope with a deep love of God’s children. Just like his predecessor.

I never said it was. That’s a straw man. Motivation isn’t the question. Conformity with the Tradition is the question. The atrophy of the other organs of the Mystical Body is the question. Again, I think that Pope Benedict recognizes this, but he’s in a difficult position.

Well, you can hold to your position that he is not conforming to Tradition. I think if you were to have an audience with him you’d be hard pressed to convince him he is not upholding Tradition.

I’m certainly not one of those.

An odd statement for an orthodox Catholic to make. Isn’t Catholicism supposed to represent eternal truth?

Of course! It’s only odd because you took it out of context.
Btw, thank you for calling me an orthodox Catholic. I take that as a big compliment.

Well, much of what I’m objecting to was developed in the 19th century (though much of it is older, admittedly)

Well, hopefully the Holy Spirit can ease your mind on the issues within Catholicism that cause you anxiety.

You’re attributing much more anti-papal views to me than I hold.

Sorry.

I accept the authority of the Pope.

I have a problem with the way it has developed in the last millennium, and more particularly since the collapse of the “throne and altar” alliances in 19th-century Europe (a collapse which was in itself, on the whole, a good thing in my opinion).

Edwin

I tend to not stress over it. The Papacy was established by Jesus. I trust in Him and His promise to guide His Church. The Holy Spirit is the only person that can bring about unity of East and West. He will be present at the decisions on how this happens and what the future Petrine role will be in a united Church.
But I can’t subscribe to a view that somehow The Roman Pontiff lost this Petrine privilege simply because man says so.

 

[Nicea325]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Contarini
Jesus established a Body. We all need each other.

Yes he did and he also left His Church with authority and that is always a source of tension for many. Obeying and following authority is an issue for most humans,precisely why we are fallen creatures. I think Lucifer and his squad of rebel angels is a clue.

 

[KathleenGee]

Being head of the universal Catholic church has never been easy.

The parish priest prays for every soul within his parish boundaries and for all mankind.

The bishop prays for all souls entrusted to him in his diocese, along with the pastors, and for all mankind.

The pope prays for all members of the Church, those baptized into the body of Christ, and for all mankind in the world.

All our Masses are said for the atonement of the sins of mankind, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Yes, the Holy Father does indeed carry the world on his shoulders. How many times have we heard the Church speak on behalf of the sick, the dying, the common worker, those who are imprisoned unjustly or lives taken out for no reason, the human trafficking, the wont of morals, and the slavery of sin?

No other person does it more effectively than the Vicar of Christ, or the preferred title, Servant of the servants of God.

Again, it is the grace of the office, not the human person. Christ’s life lives through the Word of God and through the Church and His sacraments, and through those consecrated to Him.