I went to a Byzantine Catholic Liturgy and

[scapularkid8]

…it was absolutely stunning! The Church was one of the smallest parish churches I’ve ever been in, and there were only about 30 parishioners, but it was wonderful. I didn’t get most of it, but I just sat back and enjoyed the beauty of the Divine Liturgy. It was really beautiful when the priest would go through the icon screen and do something at the altar with all the insence and…wow it was great!

 

[Hesychios]

This is an excellent beginning!

Go back often, especially try to take in Vespers on Saturday evening to experience the full Tradition! It’s awesome!

 

[scapularkid8]

It was great. I’ll try mentioning how much I liked it so I have an opportunity to go back! See, freshman at my university aren’t allowed to have cars and Holy Wisdom (the church I went to tonight) is about 40 minutes away, so I’d have to get a ride. However, I’d gladly get a ride every Saturday to go back!!!

I’m a really sense oriented person and the Divine Liturgy involved all my senses. I truly felt like I was participating in something truly spiritual. I felt like that church was a small piece of heaven on Earth.

The priest who invited me is actually a Roman Rite Campus Ministry priest who is bi-ritual and he gave me a complete tour of the nave and Holy of Holies…and to think I got to experience this just because I commented on one of the icons in his office!!

I do have some questions though about what was going on:

1. What was Father doing before the Liturgy when he was bowing three times in a row in front of the feast day icon and then at the altar?
2. What was he doing with the insence? He had the thurible in one hand and was like dipping down and scooping it?
3. What do the letters stand for around the arms of the cross (they were like IX…something…)
4. Why don’t you bow when passing the tabernacle?
5. Why wasn’t there any Holy Water at the entrance?
6. Is there a website that lays out the text of the Liturgy so I could get to know it a little better for if I go back?!

 

[Milliardo]

It’s the very same experience I had when I first attended Divine Liturgy–the beauty, and the feel of ancient tradition. I just had to go back again and again. As for text, there are quite a number of Divine Liturgy text around Orthodox and Eastern Catholic sites.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

It was great. I’ll try mentioning how much I liked it so I have an opportunity to go back! See, freshman at my university aren’t allowed to have cars and Holy Wisdom (the church I went to tonight) is about 40 minutes away, so I’d have to get a ride. However, I’d gladly get a ride every Saturday to go back!!!

I’m a really sense oriented person and the Divine Liturgy involved all my senses. I truly felt like I was participating in something truly spiritual. I felt like that church was a small piece of heaven on Earth.

The priest who invited me is actually a Roman Rite Campus Ministry priest who is bi-ritual and he gave me a complete tour of the nave and Holy of Holies…and to think I got to experience this just because I commented on one of the icons in his office!!

I do have some questions though about what was going on:

1. What was Father doing before the Liturgy when he was bowing three times in a row in front of the feast day icon and then at the altar?

There is a liturgy of preparation:

stseraphimschurch.org/articles/proskomedia-e.html

On some thread JMJ_coder I belive asked about the preparation time before liturgy, and this was gone over in some detail. Look for proskomedia.

1. What was he doing with the insence? He had the thurible in one hand and was like dipping down and scooping it?

I’m not sure what you saw. Adding more incense? The incense represents the prayers of the saints arising to God (Revelation of John), and is offered to the icons and the congregation (the temple of the Holy Spirit and His icon).

1. What do the letters stand for around the arms of the cross (they were like IX…something…)

IC XC Jesus Christ
NIKA Victory
IBNI Jesus of Nazereth King of the Jews.
BD King of Glory

There is often some things like the inscription “The Mount of Calvary has become Paradise.”

1. Why don’t you bow when passing the tabernacle?

You should. No one did?

1. Why wasn’t there any Holy Water at the entrance?

There should have been, but it’s usually in a closed container (it’s often drunk). Or maybe they don’t because of the parish size.

1. Is there a website that lays out the text of the Liturgy so I could get to know it a little better for if I go back?!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Liturgy

gives a couple of links

 

[wynd]

1. Is there a website that lays out the text of the Liturgy so I could get to know it a little better for if I go back?!

ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/liturgy/liturgy.html

 

[scapularkid8]

You should. No one did?

Yikes! NO! I didn’t know where it was! I thought you didn’t have to when the icon screen was closed! The church I was at, again, is a VERY small church so their nave also served as our dining area for the potluck afterward! Hmmm, I guess their church is a little more lax about that stuff since it’s such a small area??

Or maybe they don’t because of the parish size.

Again, the parish was incredibly small so I’m thinking that was it.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Yikes! NO! I didn’t know where it was! I thought you didn’t have to when the icon screen was closed! The church I was at, again, is a VERY small church so their nave also served as our dining area for the potluck afterward! Hmmm, I guess their church is a little more lax about that stuff since it’s such a small area??

Possible, the Lord understands I’m sure.

I’m presently trying to reinforce in my sons that you bow and Cross yourselves always when you pass before the Royal Doors (the central doors of the iconostasis) because of Who lies behind them.

When we meet for Bible Study in the Church, since it gets a little light at times, our Priest covers the tabernacle with a cloth also long as we are meeting, besides closing the doors. I still bow.

Again, the parish was incredibly small so I’m thinking that was it.

 

[Augustine]

When we were in vacation, my wife was curious to go to one too. Having attended Mass frequently at a Maronite parish, I warned her that, though it’s essentially the same Mass as we’re used to, it had different postures and a different degree of participation by the faithful. Just in case, do like the “Romans”, I advised.

She and our children managed to follow the postures pretty well, including crossing themselves whenever the Persons of the Trinity ere mentioned, and followed the cantor on the pamphlet on the pews. I did try to let them know about how to receive Holly Communion, but they didn’t let me explain to not close the lips on the tiny spoon as the priest deposited the Precious Body and Blood on the tongue. The priest noticed immediately that we were Latin Catholics, but charitably said and did nothing (the Communion “rail” is not the best place for instruction).

At the end of Mass, their conclusion was that though more… “ceremonious”, they prefer the Novus Ordo Mass. If anything, out of custom.

I myself am quite happy with a well celebrated Novus Ordo Mass. But I praise our Eastern brothers and sisters for keeping St. John’s Chrysostom’s liturgy alive for so many centuries, hopefully for more centuries to come.

BTW, as most Byzantine churches, it was a blessing to the eyes. In case you’re wondering, it was in St. Therese’s in St. Peteresburg, FL.

 

[scapularkid8]

Something else I thought was weird was there didn’t really seem to be any “order” among the parishoners…like at the end when we received oil on our foreheads and ate bread people just went and did their own thing for a couple minutes before we prayed for the dead of the parish in front of the feast day icon. People were lighting candles in front of icons, praying in front of icons, and it just seemed strange to me that they weren’t “where they should be” (i.e. the pews!)…very strange to me as a Roman…

 

[thefizzle656]

I did try to let them know about how to receive Holly Communion, but they didn’t let me explain to not close the lips on the tiny spoon as the priest deposited the Precious Body and Blood on the tongue. The priest noticed immediately that we were Latin Catholics, but charitably said and did nothing (the Communion “rail” is not the best place for instruction).

I actually am quite curious about this, because I always hear on the forums about how you are not supposed to close your mouth on the spoon when receiving communion. However, at all of the Orthodox Churches I’ve ever been to all of the faithful close their mouth on the spoon. To me it makes sense to do it this way because a) nobody is going to get sick, it’s Holy Communion! b) whenever people eat with spoons they usually close their lips on the spoon. I don’t just drop the ice cream into my mouth! It also seems to me to prevent the possibilty of the Precious Body and Blood from falling out of one’s mouth.

In Greece and Romania the practice is the same, people close their lips. Here in the US I was actually instructed by my priest the close my lips, and the same at a monastery here! I was visiting a monastery, and when I went up to recieve communion the hieromonk instructed me to close my mouth. Nobody I know seems to be grossed out by it. I’m not trying to say that not closing your lips is somehow bad, I just don’t really understand a person MUST not close their lips when practice seems to suggest that this is not the case. In fact, it’s helped me get over my slight germophobia.

Forgive for the rant!

Alex

 

[wynd]

Something else I thought was weird was there didn’t really seem to be any “order” among the parishoners…like at the end when we received oil on our foreheads and ate bread people just went and did their own thing for a couple minutes before we prayed for the dead of the parish in front of the feast day icon. People were lighting candles in front of icons, praying in front of icons, and it just seemed strange to me that they weren’t “where they should be” (i.e. the pews!)…very strange to me as a Roman…

Technically there shouldn’t even be any pews

 

[ThereseMarie]

…it was absolutely stunning! The Church was one of the smallest parish churches I’ve ever been in, and there were only about 30 parishioners, but it was wonderful. I didn’t get most of it, but I just sat back and enjoyed the beauty of the Divine Liturgy. It was really beautiful when the priest would go through the icon screen and do something at the altar with all the insence and…wow it was great!

I TOTALLY agree!!! I have been posting all over the place about the beautiful, beautiful Divine Liturgy. I have told everyone I know to attend a Byzantine Mass. I have sat teary eyed through 2 Divine Liturgies and have longed for more. I could go on and on!!! Suffice it to say, I really feel as though I am in heaven when at a Byzantine Mass, just like what Scott Hahn was talking about in his book The Lamb’s Supper. In fact, I think he must have been writing about the Byzantine Mass. If there were a Byzantine church nearby, I would “switch” rites (is that even proper to say that?).

 

[East_and_West]

I have also had a similar experience of Divine beauty when I attended a Tridentine (old Latin) mass. To see such a mass performed reverently is to be in awe.

 

[ForeverAdam]

I TOTALLY agree!!! I have been posting all over the place about the beautiful, beautiful Divine Liturgy. I have told everyone I know to attend a Byzantine Mass. I have sat teary eyed through 2 Divine Liturgies and have longed for more. I could go on and on!!! Suffice it to say, I really feel as though I am in heaven when at a Byzantine Mass, just like what Scott Hahn was talking about in his book The Lamb’s Supper. In fact, I think he must have been writing about the Byzantine Mass. If there were a Byzantine church nearby, I would “switch” rites (is that even proper to say that?).

I’m glad you enjoy the beauty of the Christian East. I’ve always thought that Orthodox Christians have a lot of common ground with more traditional Roman/Eastern Catholics on the area of the liturgy and our beliefs regarding the sacraments. You mentioned Scott Hahn. I remember reading once (I don’t recall where) that he now attends the Byzantine Catholic Liturgy. Do you know anything about this, ThereseMarie? Thanks.

God bless,

Adam

 

[scapularkid8]

I have also had a similar experience of Divine beauty when I attended a Tridentine (old Latin) mass. To see such a mass performed reverently is to be in awe.

Yeah, attending a Tridentine Mass is next on my list!!! (Although I could spend forever and a day in a Byzantine Divine Liturgy!!)

But yes, the Byzantine Divine Liturgy is…Divine! There really are no words for it. Praise God! There should be a Byzantine Catholic Church in every city of this country. Imagine the effect on church attendance and the religious implications that would have!

 

[VL93]

Speaking of Scott Hahn, here’s a quotation from his Rome Sweet Home from a time early in his conversion process (in 1985 or so):

I went to a Byzantine Catholic seminary just to attend their vespers liturgy. It wasn’t a Mass; it was just prayer, with all the prostrations, incense and icons, the smells and the bells. When it was over, a seminarian asked me, “What do you think?” I simply muttered, “Now I know why God gave me a body: to worship the Lord with his people in liturgy.”

 

[scapularkid8]

It’s so true!! I, a silly Roman, was sitting there having no idea what was going on here in Byzantium, but now I know why the Russian people converted to Eastern Christianity!! I remember reading a quote regarding the Russian king who desired to unify his kingdom under a central and beautiful faith so he sent emissaries to different religious practices and when the delegation returned from the Divine Liturgy in the Hagia Sophia of Byzantium they said “We knew not whether we were still in our bodies for we did not know if we were in Heaven or on Earth”…wow. Scot Hahn’s quote is nearly a modern day re-stating of this story!

 

[ThereseMarie]

You mentioned Scott Hahn. I remember reading once (I don’t recall where) that he now attends the Byzantine Catholic Liturgy. Do you know anything about this, ThereseMarie? Thanks.

God bless,

Adam

You know, I don’t know if does, but it would make sense. He writes that Mass is Heaven on earth, and I feel this very deeply in a Byzantine Liturgy. My mother always told me that in every Mass all around the world all the angels and saints are standing around the altar during the Liturgy of the Eucharist . Maybe she is right…

 

[Augustine]

Well, I don’t pretend to know the rubrics of receiving Holy communion in the Byzantine Rite. However, some Easter Catholic cleric was being interviewed by Fr. Mitch Pacwa in his program, EWTN Live, and he explained it as I mentioned.

At that church I could confirm that others were receiving without closing the lips either, just reclining their heads backwards slightly and opening the mouth wide for the priest to deposit the Precious Species on the tongue.

I understand that the reflex act of closing the lips is hard to control, but it’s just a tiny piece of His Precious Body and a tiny amount of His Precious Blood, which easily run towards the sides of the tongue without risk of falling from the mouth or causing one to choke.