I went to my first Divine Liturgy

[carlos19]

I was born and raised in the Latin Rite. As a recent revert back to the Church, I learned of the different rites of which I never knew existed. I just attended a Byzantine Catholic Church annunciationbyzantine.org/

The church itself was beautiful, much more than a typical Latin Rite church here in the States. It reminded me of the old Catholic Churches in Mexico…which by the way I have never seen their equal, their beauty is beyond anything I have seen in Canada or America…maybe the European Churches rival them.

The Divine Liturgy was beautiful, I immediately felt as if I was transported to the ancient times. It was completely chanted from the beginning until the end. Even the reading of the new testament was chanted.

We were completely lost throughout but a helpful person gave us a sheet that guided us through the prayers.

Some observations:

This is just my opinion only and I mean no criticism. For me in order to get the full message, I think I would need a break from chanting, especially in the readings of the scriptures.

It was extremely reverential especially when it came through the Eucharist. As we approached to take the Eucharist, some people were kissing an icon and then wiping it off. I had researched the proper way to take the Eucharist in an Eastern rite so no Amen for me but I did cross myself the Latin way…since the believers at this Church were crossing themselves backwards!!

Everyone was crossing themselves it seemed like every five minutes and at times bowing.

I really loved when the deacon said, be attentive before reading the scriptures.

The incense did not stop coming it seemed. I thought I saw a cloud of incense floating above us.

Babies were taking the Eucharist!!! This made so much sense to me, the same arguments that are given for infant baptism could also be made for the Eucharist.

Some people were kneeling when the consecration of the Eucharist was talking place,former Latins perhaps, I wanted to kneel but most were standing so I stood.

All in all it was a good spiritual experience. Will I be returning? Maybe from time to time but I realized I am a Latin through and through.

It left me with much much respect for my Eastern brothers and sisters.

 

[MonkMoses]

Hi Carlos and welcome to the Eastern chuches forum!

Thanks for your observations of the Divine Liturgy.

May I ask what about the Liturgy made you realize you are a Latin Catholic through and through?

Thanks! Have a blessed lent!

Fr. Moses

I was born and raised in the Latin Rite. As a recent revert back to the Church, I learned of the different rites of which I never knew existed. I just attended a Byzantine Catholic Church annunciationbyzantine.org/

The church itself was beautiful, much more than a typical Latin Rite church here in the States. It reminded me of the old Catholic Churches in Mexico…which by the way I have never seen their equal, their beauty is beyond anything I have seen in Canada or America…maybe the European Churches rival them.

The Divine Liturgy was beautiful, I immediately felt as if I was transported to the ancient times. It was completely chanted from the beginning until the end. Even the reading of the new testament was chanted.

We were completely lost throughout but a helpful person gave us a sheet that guided us through the prayers.

Some observations:

This is just my opinion only and I mean no criticism. For me in order to get the full message, I think I would need a break from chanting, especially in the readings of the scriptures.

It was extremely reverential especially when it came through the Eucharist. As we approached to take the Eucharist, some people were kissing an icon and then wiping it off. I had researched the proper way to take the Eucharist in an Eastern rite so no Amen for me but I did cross myself the Latin way…since the believers at this Church were crossing themselves backwards!!

Everyone was crossing themselves it seemed like every five minutes and at times bowing.

I really loved when the deacon said, be attentive before reading the scriptures.

The incense did not stop coming it seemed. I thought I saw a cloud of incense floating above us.

Babies were taking the Eucharist!!! This made so much sense to me, the same arguments that are given for infant baptism could also be made for the Eucharist.

Some people were kneeling when the consecration of the Eucharist was talking place,former Latins perhaps, I wanted to kneel but most were standing so I stood.

All in all it was a good spiritual experience. Will I be returning? Maybe from time to time but I realized I am a Latin through and through.

It left me with much much respect for my Eastern brothers and sisters.

 

[carlos19]

that’s a great question. It wasn’t dissatisfaction. It was actually a very spiritual experience. The reverence by the believers in the Eastern rite taught us alot.

My wife and I talked about the beauty of the liturgy but when we asked ourselves can we see ourselves in the East. We both said no.

I think it has to do with the following

1. Cultural-We are of Mexican descent…(my wife is Mexican born, me American born of Mexican parents). Catholicism is very deep embedded in Mexican culture. The Latin Rite is what we grew up with, what we are familiar with. My wife actually said about the divine liturgy, “it was beautiful but it is not our tradition”, our meaning Mexican.
2. Not 100% Chanting-I think we prefer a mix of the spoken word and singing as opposed to chanting throughout. Although I think the Latin Rite can sorely benefit from more sacred music and chanting instead of the music that is commonly used.

Please believe me that we will go back again some day. But the Latin Rite seems like home to us.

My take-aways from the divine liturgy

-The ordinary form needs to include sacred music/Gregorian
-The ordinary form needs to be celebrated ad orientiem-it makes the Eucharist the center of the worship.

 

[grasscutter]

Thanks for posting this. Since last fall, I’ve had the local opportunity to attend a Byzantine Mass, but I’ve felt too shy/unsure to do so. I’m afraid of doing the wrong thing and offending everyone! Anyway, thanks to your post, I think I would like to experience what you did. And, for me, the chanting would be good, I can always read the scripture before or after at home.

 

[carlos19]

Thanks for posting this. Since last fall, I’ve had the local opportunity to attend a Byzantine Mass, but I’ve felt too shy/unsure to do so. I’m afraid of doing the wrong thing and offending everyone! Anyway, thanks to your post, I think I would like to experience what you did. And, for me, the chanting would be good, I can always read the scripture before or after at home.

feel free to email the priest of the Parish letting him know what you want to do. The priest at the church where I went was extremely helpful, he kind of gave me a quick primer on what to especially when taking the Eucharist. You will love the liturgy I promise.

 

[5Loaves]

Thanks for posting this. Since last fall, I’ve had the local opportunity to attend a Byzantine Mass, but I’ve felt too shy/unsure to do so. I’m afraid of doing the wrong thing and offending everyone!

Don’t be shy. We’re all used to having visitors. And many parishes have ECs from different backgrounds in the parish who cross themselves and or bow at different times. Just soak it in and join in on the repetitions, of which there are many.

carlos19 suggests calling the priest which I have no problem with. Just don’t read anything into it if you don’t get a call back. Hopefully someone will introduce themselves to you when they see a visitor arrive and you can ask them any questions. We are in Great Lent now and so celebrating the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil the Great which is longer than the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. It has some wonderful parts we don’t hear in St. John’s DL. Plan to stay after for lunch, hopefully, or at least some sort of food and social time. Hopefully the parish is also celebrating the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts Wed. and/or Fri., a special opportunity to experience this in Great Lent.

 

[grasscutter]

Thank you everyone for the helpful tips!

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Some observations:

This is just my opinion only and I mean no criticism. For me in order to get the full message, I think I would need a break from chanting, especially in the readings of the scriptures.

Carlos: It was terrific that you had an opportunity to experience the Light of the East, and your observations are characteristic of the Latin Catholic first exposure to Byzantine Rite Liturgy.

The Annunciation church is special, as its structure is distinctly Byzantine through and through.

BTW - the tradition of chant actually started with reference to the scripture readings. In the larger churches of New Rome / Constantinople, the readings had to be chanted in order for them to be heard by all present.

I would also note from your observations that it was actually the Latin Church that changed the direction in which you sign, so one might say, you cross yourself backwards. That said, that we cross ourselves so many times is the better take away from your experience. We signify the reference to and presence of the Holy Trinity whenever mentioned in the course of the Divine Liturgy.

 

[carlos19]

I sure hope I did not offend you byzcantor. I meant no offense. It was just something that struck me st the time. I actually was moved by the experience.last Sunday during mass, I actually found myself thinking about my experience at the Annunciation church. . I also noticed the way the people hold their hands while crossingwas different too. I actually missed going there to tell you the truth. I longed to go back. Which is conflicting to me since I also have much love for the Latin liturgy. Maybe it was the reverence, or maybe the chanting believe it or not…but something had been planted in my heart. The church is a special church. Do you attend mass there?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I sure hope I did not offend you byzcantor. I meant no offense. It was just something that struck me st the time. I actually was moved by the experience.last Sunday during mass, I actually found myself thinking about my experience at the Annunciation church. . I also noticed the way the people hold their hands while crossingwas different too. I actually missed going there to tell you the truth. I longed to go back. Which is conflicting to me since I also have much love for the Latin liturgy. Maybe it was the reverence, or maybe the chanting believe it or not…but something had been planted in my heart. The church is a special church. Do you attend mass there?

No, no, no - no offense at all! On the contrary, that you are drawn so deeply to your own tradition is inspiring in and of itself. That you allowed yourself, as we have been encouraged, to experience the Light of the East was a great testament to your Catholic fidelity. The beauty of the fullness of the Catholic Church, East and West, is that you may enjoy all of its richness without sacrificing that which connects you the most.

Having studied the language and having been exposed to the culture, I can truly appreciate how much Latin Church traditions mean to you given your heritage. In fact, many Eastern Catholics are more closely connected to their Church given their ethnic and cultural backgrounds. It is quite natural and understandable.

That said, we have been know to adapt, as well. Here’s a little taste of the Byzantine Divine Liturgy en Español (the Trisagion, or Thrice-Holy Hymn):

Santo Dios, Santo y Fuerte, Santo e Inmortal, ten piedad de nosotros!
Holy God, Holy and Mighty, Holy and Immortal, have mercy on us!

If you do have any questions regarding your experience, please ask them here. There are many good, charitable Eastern Christians here, Catholic and Orthodox, who would be happy to give you more perspective on Eastern liturgical practices and traditions.

May the Lord bless you and keep you faithful always!

 

[dancingcrane]

I’m a Latin rite Catholic, an adult convert from Anglican, and I fell in love with the Divine Liturgy some 20 years ago. It was right there at Annunciation, too, back when it was just a tiny chapel. I now call a Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church home. I love all the Churches that make up the Catholic Church, and love it when others get to experience something outside their ‘home’ tradition. I wish more Latins did. Before conversion, I took the path so many young seekers did, to the non-Christian East, precisely because I was unaware of the true treasures in the vast Catholic Church. Appreciation can go both ways; I know Byzantines who are Dominicans and Carmelites. Different people need different things. Some travel far to find home. Some travel far, and discover that the home they left was best of all. May God be praised for all the richness He gives!

 

[Halyna]

If you liked that, DONT MISS Good Friday services. You’ll feel like you are there.

As a Ukrainian Catholic who attends a Roman Catholic church, there are things to get used to. Like the crossing & bowing (metania instead of genuflect), but I too see things that I dont understand or am not comfortable with. But, as long as it is not disrespectful, those things are minor.

But don’t miss Good Friday. And some Eastern churches have truly awesome Easter processions that will send chills up your spine. The procession goes outside (all church lights are out, only candles are lit inside). It strikes me the most when after the procession outside the priest with his cross hits the outside church doors (reminds me of a thunderbolt that might have opened the tomb of Jesus - it always seems to be loud like that -). When he opens the door, and the church lights are on and all that brightness pours out. And that’s when the shouts begin: He is Risen!

 

[TrueLight]

All in all it was a good spiritual experience. Will I be returning? Maybe from time to time but I realized I am a Latin through and through.

I know what you mean. My first experience at a DL was at a Russian Orthodox church. I thought the Liturgy was beautiful and the people were awesome.

I too asked myself if I can see myself attending it week after week, and I realized that even though I had not converted to Catholicism yet, the Latin rite resounded in my soul in a special way.

But I also knew I would be attending DLs from time to time. I have a friend who was raised in a Ukrainian Catholic Church and also attends a TLM. She attends both rites and observes the Feast days of both rites. (She has a lot of energy!). So I can always tag along with her anytime.

But don’t miss Good Friday.

Can anyone tell me around what time during the day Good Friday services are held? Around 3 PM?

 

[5Loaves]

I know what you mean. My first experience at a DL was at a Russian Orthodox church. I thought the Liturgy was beautiful and the people were awesome.

Why did I think you didn’t have such a good experience there with the parishioners? Maybe it was the Russian Catholic parish that wasn’t such a good experience for you…

Can anyone tell me around what time during the day Good Friday services are held? Around 3 PM?

Matins of the Twelve Passion Gospels Great and Holy Friday held Thursday evening, Royal Hours before midday Friday, Vespers early Friday afternoon (2PM my parish and Orthodox OCA I often go to), Matins of Great and Holy Saturday/The Lamentation at the Tomb Fri evening (7PM my parish and Orthodox OCA I often go to).

 

[carlos19]

If you liked that, DONT MISS Good Friday services. You’ll feel like you are there.

As a Ukrainian Catholic who attends a Roman Catholic church, there are things to get used to. Like the crossing & bowing (metania instead of genuflect), but I too see things that I dont understand or am not comfortable with. But, as long as it is not disrespectful, those things are minor.

But don’t miss Good Friday. And some Eastern churches have truly awesome Easter processions that will send chills up your spine. The procession goes outside (all church lights are out, only candles are lit inside). It strikes me the most when after the procession outside the priest with his cross hits the outside church doors (reminds me of a thunderbolt that might have opened the tomb of Jesus - it always seems to be loud like that -). When he opens the door, and the church lights are on and all that brightness pours out. And that’s when the shouts begin: He is Risen!

that sounds amazing

 

[TrueLight]

Why did I think you didn’t have such a good experience there with the parishioners? Maybe it was the Russian Catholic parish that wasn’t such a good experience for you…

The Orthodox church (OCA) was great and the parishioners were friendly, but in all fairness, I had contacted the pastor before I went there and he assigned a woman as a guide for me.

My experience was bad at the small Russian Eastern Catholic vespers service because they weren’t friendly at all.

Matins of the Twelve Passion Gospels Great and Holy Friday held Thursday evening, Royal Hours before midday Friday, Vespers early Friday afternoon (2PM my parish and Orthodox OCA I often go to), Matins of Great and Holy Saturday/The Lamentation at the Tomb Fri evening (7PM my parish and Orthodox OCA I often go to).

Thank you! I have to see if I can make it out to one of the services.

 

[5Loaves]

The Orthodox church (OCA) was great and the parishioners were friendly, but in all fairness, I had contacted the pastor before I went there and he assigned a woman as a guide for me.

My experience was bad at the small Russian Eastern Catholic vespers service because they weren’t friendly at all.

Thank you! I have to see if I can make it out to one of the services.

That’s really sad about St Michael’s. I’ve only met a couple of their former parishioners who are very nice. Anyway… I see they are on the new calendar. I would guess that OCA parishes are old calendar at least for Great Lent/Pascha. If you can only get to one service I’d encourage you to go to the Friday evening Matins Lamentation at the Tomb, or both afternoon Vespers and evening Matins. I see Holy Virgin OCA NYC has theirs at 2PM Vespers and 6PM Matins. I admit to being prejudiced towards the Russians. I’ve just come from an evening of 9th hour and Presanctified with the Greeks who sat in their pews 99.99% of the evening and while the temple was nearly empty still I think we’d have heard it if anyone else were even joining in for the “Kyrie eleisons!”

 

[TrueLight]

That’s really sad about St Michael’s. I’ve only met a couple of their former parishioners who are very nice. Anyway… I see they are on the new calendar. I would guess that OCA parishes are old calendar at least for Great Lent/Pascha. If you can only get to one service I’d encourage you to go to the Friday evening Matins Lamentation at the Tomb, or both afternoon Vespers and evening Matins. I see Holy Virgin OCA NYC has theirs at 2PM Vespers and 6PM Matins. I admit to being prejudiced towards the Russians. I’ve just come from an evening of 9th hour and Presanctified with the Greeks who sat in their pews 99.99% of the evening and while the temple was nearly empty still I think we’d have heard it if anyone else were even joining in for the “Kyrie eleisons!”

So old calendar means they are a week later? I noticed their fourth Sunday of Lent is on 3/25. The deacon at that Church has a beautiful voice.

 

[5Loaves]

So old calendar means they are a week later? I noticed their fourth Sunday of Lent is on 3/25. The deacon at that Church has a beautiful voice.

Yes, this year we are one week different. We’re in mid Lent now, 3rd week. This Sunday is 3/25, the Annunciation which trumps anything else that day.

 

[TheExorcist]

I was born and raised in the Latin Rite. As a recent revert back to the Church, I learned of the different rites of which I never knew existed. I just attended a Byzantine Catholic Church annunciationbyzantine.org/

The church itself was beautiful, much more than a typical Latin Rite church here in the States. It reminded me of the old Catholic Churches in Mexico…which by the way I have never seen their equal, their beauty is beyond anything I have seen in Canada or America…maybe the European Churches rival them.

The Divine Liturgy was beautiful, I immediately felt as if I was transported to the ancient times. It was completely chanted from the beginning until the end. Even the reading of the new testament was chanted.

We were completely lost throughout but a helpful person gave us a sheet that guided us through the prayers.

Some observations:

This is just my opinion only and I mean no criticism. For me in order to get the full message, I think I would need a break from chanting, especially in the readings of the scriptures.

It was extremely reverential especially when it came through the Eucharist. As we approached to take the Eucharist, some people were kissing an icon and then wiping it off. I had researched the proper way to take the Eucharist in an Eastern rite so no Amen for me but I did cross myself the Latin way…since the believers at this Church were crossing themselves backwards!!

Everyone was crossing themselves it seemed like every five minutes and at times bowing.

I really loved when the deacon said, be attentive before reading the scriptures.

The incense did not stop coming it seemed. I thought I saw a cloud of incense floating above us.

Babies were taking the Eucharist!!! This made so much sense to me, the same arguments that are given for infant baptism could also be made for the Eucharist.

Some people were kneeling when the consecration of the Eucharist was talking place,former Latins perhaps, I wanted to kneel but most were standing so I stood.

All in all it was a good spiritual experience. Will I be returning? Maybe from time to time but I realized I am a Latin through and through.

It left me with much much respect for my Eastern brothers and sisters.

I too went to my first Ruthenian/Byzantine Catholic church today as well. It was their 5pm Vespers/DL. I got there a few mins early and realized I was the only one that showed up! Luckily the priest realized I wasn’t a regular and gave me page numbers in the people’s book so I could follow most of it. I think I could have followed it easier if I had someone to help in the congregation but I’m always up for a liturgical adventure!

I couldn’t receive because I’m not yet Catholic so Father just had me bow my head and pronounced a blessing.

Afterwards Father gave me a short primer on the DL and how a lot of it works. And also how a person with the name Eugene O’Brien became a Byz Cath priest LoL

Related to all of this: can someone tell me what the after communion portion was about with the cross w oil on the forehead and the unconsecrated bread?

All in all a beautiful and personal experience. I’m definitely going back to see a Sunday DL as well as after I’m received into the church so I can take communion off the gold spoon!