I went to my first TLM ... did not go well

[alih]

many have not been taught what “the mass” is all about and find themselves lost from basically, the lack of understanding.
i recall vividly, the monsignor walking up and down the aisle at the children’s mass explaining that which was happening. in this, as well as our catechism classes, just about all of us developed a deep and abiding respectful reverence and understanding of the sacrificial rite of the roman catholic church. have a good year. (alih)

 

[Alethiaphile]

I could not hear a word of what the Priest was saying,
He’s not talking to the congregation; he’s talking to God. We are there to pray with him; not to be his “audience” - he is interceding for us at the Throne of Grace.

How ridiculous is this. At Mass, we pray with the priest to God, but we pray with the priest as a community. And it’s “we”, not just the priest. You talk as if there need be no laity present at all, just the priest offering prayers for everyone else, as if the priest constituted the whole Church. He does not.

 

[Dauphin]

How ridiculous is this. At Mass, we pray with the priest to God, but we pray with the priest as a community. And it’s “we”, not just the priest. You talk as if there need be no laity present at all, just the priest offering prayers for everyone else, as if the priest constituted the whole Church. He does not.

The priest and the laity both have their proper parts. The Canon is for the priest alone, because he confects the sacrifice.

 

[JaMc]

I will assume the best, that you did not mean to be uncharitable toward OF parishoners. and did not mean to insinuate that the majority of us couldn’t care less about the Mass beyond showing up for an hour on Sunday to escape damnation. Unfortunately this statement could easily be taken the wrong way.

I did not mean to be uncharitable toward OF parishoners. I am one myself, actually. I often volunteer as Lector, and feel that it is a great honour to have the opportunity to participate in a small way in the Holy Mass (though I’ll admit I prefer the EF, and would attend it more often if it were available in my area). In fact, I’d say most of the people who care enough about the Church to participate on these boards, both OF and EF parishoners, care a great deal about the Mass and its significance. I was simply saying that, given that the OF is what is offered in most local parishes (hence, “Ordinary Form”), you have more people in the pews who are simply there because they “have to,” whereas those who “go out of their way” to attend an EF Mass do so because they are more traditionally-leaning, and are especially devoted to the Mass.

Back in, for example, 1951, you’d probably have the same percentage of people merely attending due to the Sunday obligation. Perhaps larger, since, anymore, the fact that people can be bothered to attend the Mass in either form shows a greater level of committment than the average person identifying himself as Catholic (at least those present care about the Sunday obligation).

Sorry if anyone took my statement the wrong way - I think both forms of the Mass are fine and valid, and I do not think anyone is a “better” or “worse” Catholic for attending either form.

 

[malphono]

many have not been taught what “the mass” is all about and find themselves lost from basically, the lack of understanding.
i recall vividly, the monsignor walking up and down the aisle at the children’s mass explaining that which was happening. in this, as well as our catechism classes, just about all of us developed a deep and abiding respectful reverence and understanding of the sacrificial rite of the roman catholic church. have a good year. (alih)

Yes, I think many of us recall the same type of thing.

But I find it interesting that so many of those who were in the same classroom with us became poster children of the post-conciliar age. ("Down with the “old” up with the “new”) And so did so many of the (then) recently ordained clergy (who are now among those most strongly opposed to the EF and the motu proprio).

And then we have most of those who were then nuns (or, more properly, “religious sisters” since true nuns (solemnly professed) were always a rarity in the US). Perhaps they were (are) the virulent.

I personally know of a case where these same “religious sisters” actually complained to the Chancery about the principal (a priest, of a younger age group) using a high school chapel to offer the EF on Sundays. They invoked a technicality about the school building being used on non-school days, and of course the Chancery eagerly agreed. (The now chastised priest had to scramble to find a friendly local parish church that was willing to host. Fortunately he did.) The question is: why did those women get so riled over the celebration of the EF? They were neither required, expected, nor even asked, to attend or participate. Of course, upon examination, they were all in the “right” age group for such. What I call “obstructionism” is apparently alive and well among other than bishops and priests. Sad.

But … Merry Christmas to all anyway:thumbsup: !!!

 

[Sarabande]

I had pretty much the same reaction the first time I tried dinuguan (Filipino, pork blood stew), but now it’s among my favorites.

Haha! You are a much more daring person than me. I’m half Filipina and have grown up attending family functions and parties that had dinuguan. I still have yet to eat it.

Merry Christmas!

 

[Sarabande]

In all fairness you should probably disclose that there is probably a better chance of the OP finding a unicorn grazing in their backyard tomorrow morning or stumbling upon a leprechaun’s pot of gold than their is of finding the OF offered in Latin.

We are coming off of a couple of decades of many (most?) priest’s being taught in the seminary that Latin was bad and the Church says that it can’t be used in Mass. Those priests who want to use Latin in the Mass seem more likely since Summorum Pontificum to use the EF instead of the OF.

James

This is true, but I think it depends on the diocese. My parish has a Latin OF every other Sunday. There are other parishes in the area that also have them and we have a few parishes in the area that dedicates a TLM every week.

But I also understand that there other dioceses which do not have it.

 

[malphono]

This is true, but I think it depends on the diocese. My parish has a Latin OF every other Sunday. There are other parishes in the area that also have them and we have a few parishes in the area that dedicates a TLM every week.

But I also understand that there other dioceses which do not have it.

I could be wrong, but I doubt there are many diocese that either encourage or restrict the OF in Latin. The OF in Latin (and ad orientem)is part of the “reform of the reform” and doesn’t seem to be all that widespread.

Generally, it seems to be on the parish level, and for a variety of reasons that normally means NO (and before anyone jumps down my throat, that is the word “no” and NOT the “dreaded” abbreviation for the OF). On the parish level, for the most part at least, the OF means “vernacular” (and versus populum) and so it is.

As James0235 said in post #34 "

there is probably a better chance of the OP finding a unicorn grazing in their backyard tomorrow morning or stumbling upon a leprechaun’s pot of gold than their is of finding the OF offered in Latin.

 

[peregrinator_it]

Well, I’ll have to watch out for little green men the next time I go to St. John Cantius in Chicago, which is considered the “Mother Parish” of the Tridentine Mass resurgence in the Chicago area. It has both the EF and OF in Latin.

Hey, Norseman, thanks. I was apparently raised from infancy by unicorns!

And not 20 miles from the famously liberal city of San Francisco! (And even there one can find a Latin OF.)

I think “rare as unicorns in the back yard” is a major exaggeration. You’re unlikely to find a Latin OF if you live in a rural area, but if you’re near a sizeable city, it’s not that unusual.

Thus I can affirm that if you live in/near Seattle, WA; Oakland or SF, CA, Santa Paula, CA, Washington, DC, Chicago, IL, London, UK, or Oxford, UK (and don’t forget Vatican City ) you can find a Latin OF. And these are merely the places I’ve lived in/visited.

In fact, Columbus is the first place I’ve hear of where the Latin OF is definitively not available.

 

[malphono]

… In fact, Columbus is the first place I’ve hear of where the Latin OF is definitively not available.

Just as an FYI, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of them in the Archdiocese of New York, or in the Diocese of Brooklyn either. Rather parallels the EF. Do it exist? Yes. Is it readily available (or even easy to find)? No.

Merry Christmas.

 

[DaveBj]

OP’s experience pretty well corresponds with mine, which was documented on a thread in this forum several months ago. The one difference with my experience was that it was a sung mass, but the “choir” (just a handful of ladies, maybe 3 or 4) did not enunciate, so what they were singing was all vowels, no consonants, and totally unintelligible.

I have since found a passage in Paul’s writings that speaks to the experience of being in church, and not being able to understand what is going on.

1 Cor 14:13-17–Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say? For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.

Granted, Paul was talking about the phenomenon of glossalalia, but the principle is the same. The presider should be understandable, either audible in the vernacular, or audible in Latin so that those in the pews will have “fruitful understanding.”

I don’t understand the concept of the priest praying so no one can hear him. I would just about guarantee you that this was not the way it was in the early days of the church.

DaveBj

 

[palmas85]

OP’s experience pretty well corresponds with mine, which was documented on a thread in this forum several months ago. The one difference with my experience was that it was a sung mass, but the “choir” (just a handful of ladies, maybe 3 or 4) did not enunciate, so what they were singing was all vowels, no consonants, and totally unintelligible.

I have since found a passage in Paul’s writings that speaks to the experience of being in church, and not being able to understand what is going on.

1 Cor 14:13-17–Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue

 

[palmas85]

OP’s experience pretty well corresponds with mine, which was documented on a thread in this forum several months ago. The one difference with my experience was that it was a sung mass, but the “choir” (just a handful of ladies, maybe 3 or 4) did not enunciate, so what they were singing was all vowels, no consonants, and totally unintelligible.

I have since found a passage in Paul’s writings that speaks to the experience of being in church, and not being able to understand what is going on.

1 Cor 14:13-17–Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say? For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.

Granted, Paul was talking about the phenomenon of glossalalia, but the principle is the same. The presider should be understandable, either audible in the vernacular, or audible in Latin so that those in the pews will have “fruitful understanding.”

I don’t understand the concept of the priest praying so no one can hear him. I would just about guarantee you that this was not the way it was in the early days of the church.

DaveBj

I would just about guarantee you, no I will guarantee you, that the Ordinary Form is not the way it was in the early Church either,

And no the principle is nowhere near the same. Speaking in tongues cannot be compared in any way to the Priest praying in the earthly official language of the Church.

 

[Lainey63]

OP’s experience pretty well corresponds with mine, which was documented on a thread in this forum several months ago. The one difference with my experience was that it was a sung mass, but the “choir” (just a handful of ladies, maybe 3 or 4) did not enunciate, so what they were singing was all vowels, no consonants, and totally unintelligible.

I have since found a passage in Paul’s writings that speaks to the experience of being in church, and not being able to understand what is going on.

1 Cor 14:13-17–Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue

 

[Sarabande]

I could be wrong, but I doubt there are many diocese that either encourage or restrict the OF in Latin. The OF in Latin (and ad orientem)is part of the “reform of the reform” and doesn’t seem to be all that widespread.

I wouldn’t really know either. I don’t go searching the parishes of other dioceses to see what they have to offer… I just know what is offered in my diocese and the neighboring diocese. My parish that does it is actually the Cathedral for the archdiocese, so I guess that could make a difference in the diocese if the Cathedral does it. At the same time, we still don’t have a TLM there, yet there are a few parishes in the area which do offer it. So, in my diocese, it isn’t really that hard to find at all. It also helps to know people who are die hard traditionalists who attend almost exclusively TLMs. Those are the ones who will keep you in the loop. I accidently got placed on the email distribution list of someone who sends out info on parishes in the area which do the EF and if there are special high masses, etc. So, I’m kept in the loop.

Generally, it seems to be on the parish level, and for a variety of reasons that normally means NO (and before anyone jumps down my throat, that is the word “no” and NOT the “dreaded” abbreviation for the OF). On the parish level, for the most part at least, the OF means “vernacular” (and versus populum) and so it is.

I think you are probably right about that being more at the parish level. But it seems to me that if an example is set by the cathedral, for instance, or other important parishes, then you will tend to find more Latin OF masses or EF masses in that diocese.

I actually was just on our diocese site for one particular parish which offer both the TLM and the Latin OF. On the diocese site, it actually refers to the Latin OF as the “Latin, Novus Ordo” or “Latin NO”. This is coming from our diocese. I’ve never known Novus Ordo or NO considered as a bad word before coming onto these forums.

 

[ljprevo]

Hi all. This post does not intend to make any judgment on the Holy Mass. I was born in the late 70s and had never gone to a TLM until last Sunday. **I **was very excited about it after having had a great confession the prior day, and was looking forward to learn about the Mass that our saints enjoy in the last centuries. Kind of a treat for Christmas!

So **I **woke up very early for Mass, and went ready for such a great experience. However, I must say that I felt totally out of place during the EF Mass, almost like an alien and I don’t know why. **I **tried to follow the guide with translations, but usually got lost. **I **could not hear a word of what the Priest was saying, there were no songs, people were reverent but kind of cold, **I **don’t know … it was weird territory. So weird that I was not able to stay until the end, **I **felt like I had to leave and actually I left while people where waiting for Communion. I went to my usual OF Mass the same day and took Communion, and felt so relieved, but at the same time very sad that I could not appreciate the beauty of the EF Mass.

I am so glad that I was born during the OF times and I am able to understand, follow, and participate in our Holy Mass. Of course, I get a bit angry with the noise, the announcements, and sometimes lack of reverence to Our Lord, but still it’s such a wonderful Rite, the one that brought God to my life, and I feel very proud of it. I don’t know if I will ever go to another EF Mass, but now I am sure that the Holy Spirit did brought the NO Mass to people like myself, devout Catholics of the 20-21st century that want to pray to God in our own language.

Merry Christmas to all of you.

I am not trying to knock you at all here. See how many times you said “I”

I understand where you are coming from, I was born in 1973 and I did not even know there was a TLM until I met my now wife 3 years ago.

When you goto mass are you really concerned with how “YOU” feel?

 

[Ghoti]

So far I have been to one Latin OF, done by the Oratorians of St Philip Neri. I loved it.

Today, for Christmas, I’m going to an FSSP “Low Mass with Carols” at Holy Cross (Donlands and Cosburn, Toronto).

Wish this poor Kumbayahoo luck, folks!
And Christmas blessings on all of you.

John

 

[Lainey63]

I am not trying to knock you at all here. See how many times you said “I”

I understand where you are coming from, I was born in 1973 and I did not even know there was a TLM until I met my now wife 3 years ago.

When you goto mass are you really concerned with how “YOU” feel?

:hey_bud: :aok:

 

[malphono]

…

On the diocese site, it actually refers to the Latin OF as the “Latin, Novus Ordo” or “Latin NO”. This is coming from our diocese. I’ve never known Novus Ordo or NO considered as a bad word before coming onto these forums.

Neither did I. A young priest friend of mine (who offers the EF publicly at least once a month) has also done the OF in Latin on occasion, (although not ad orientem). And yes, he, too, calls it by the “other name.” I recently got blasted in the Liturgy and Sacraments forum for using it, and once blasted, twice warned. Just as easy for me to type OF.

Merry Christmas!

 

[Torroidial]

I personally know of a case where these same “religious sisters” actually complained to the Chancery about the principal (a priest, of a younger age group) using a high school chapel to offer the EF on Sundays. They invoked a technicality about the school building being used on non-school days, and of course the Chancery eagerly agreed. (The now chastised priest had to scramble to find a friendly local parish church that was willing to host. Fortunately he did.) The question is: why did those women get so riled over the celebration of the EF?..

Probably a matter of control. The priest didn’t have (or even seek) their “approval” (not that he needed it) and that bugged them. Without their “approval” they likely would complain about almost anything.

This “technicality” thing sounds fishy unless it had to do with insurance or something along those lines, or if the priest had a questionable background when it came to the liturgy. I don’t know of too many chanceries in the USA that would shut-down a successful Mass where the opportunity cost is essentially zero.