I went to my neighbouring parish

[Pious]

I went to the Saturday 6pm Mass at another parish as I will be working on Sunday and would probably not be able to attend Mass in my own parish.

I was Baptised and attended this neighbouring parish up until my teens and then I moved house and attend the local parish, I accompanied my sister and my nephew to Church, the Mass started and I noticed that the Priest was wearing a white chasuble over his alb (I thought it is meant to be green as we are in ordinary times?) and the Deacon was only wearing his alb with a green stole (I am led to believe that the Deacons no longer wear the dalmatic).

Neither the Priest, Deacon or altar server genuflected in front of the Tabernacle which is present behind the altar, they all made a profound full bow.

When the gifts were brought up to the altar they were made from a speckled blue clay and the Eucharistic bread was brought up on two (what appeared to be) blue saucers, I thought that maybe the Priest would transfer the bread in to the ciborium before consecrating them but they remained on the plate piled up.

We did not say the Hail Mary (although I said it silently) and there were no Sanctus bells or incense.

I asked my sister what has happened to all the beautiful sacred vessels that used to be there and she said the new Priest decided to buy new ones when he took over from the old parish Priest (who was and still is a very traditional Priest) and that he also stopped the use of the incense and the Sanctus bells.

I am fortunate that my own parish is run by the Capuchins and that they follow the G.I.R.M. and make full use of the incense

Yours in the Spirit

Pious

 

[puzzleannie]

we don’t say the Hail Mary during Mass

what was the feast or which Sunday was it? Baptism of the Lord is white.

what was the material of the vessels? I assume you mean the vessels are speckled blue and white, not the bread. Unless you know the vessels are not of “noble material, preferably unbreakable and easily cleaned” I guess we give them benefit of the doubt.

Our deacons always where a white garment that looks like an alb to me, with the diagonal stole, and this is the most conservative parish in the diocese. Sanctus bells are not required (although we use them here), nor is incense at every Sunday Mass in ordinary time (although we use it at every opportunity here).

will have to look at the rest of your questions.

 

[Pious]

puzzleannie:

we don’t say the Hail Mary during Masss

Is this normal in some parishes?

what was the feast or which Sunday was it? Baptism of the Lord is white.

It is The Third Sunday of the Year.

what was the material of the vessels? I assume you mean the vessels are speckled blue and white, not the bread. Unless you know the vessels are not of “noble material, preferably unbreakable and easily cleaned” I guess we give them benefit of the doubt.

Yes sorry the vessels were made of speckled blue clay, and no the material is not noble as noble material for use in Wales would be Welsh gold I pressume, these were clay items like the type you would see in a craft shop and believe me if they were dropped or knocked they would break very easily. The sad part is that the parish had a beautiful set of sacred vessels made of gold and silver.

Our deacons always where a white garment that looks like an alb to me, with the diagonal stole, and this is the most conservative parish in the diocese. Sanctus bells are not required (although we use them here), nor is incense at every Sunday Mass in ordinary time (although we use it at every opportunity here).

This was the first time I had attended a Mass with a Deacon so I was not sure of their vestments, I just remember that Deacons in pictures were wearing the dalmatic.
I like the Sanctus bells and we also use the incense at every Mass, but this parish has stopped the incense at all Masses throughout the year.

Yours in the Spirit

Pious

 

[pazdziernik]

Pious:

Neither the Priest, Deacon or altar server genuflected in front of the Tabernacle which is present behind the altar, they all made a profound full bow.

Were they in front of the altar or between the altar and the tabernacle? Let’s assume that they were in front of the altar.
Were they carrying something? In this case a bow is okay. Do they have bad knees? In this case a bow is okay. Were there no consecrated hosts reserved in the tabernacle? In this case a bow is okay.

 

[Pious]

pazdziernik:

Were they in front of the altar or between the altar and the tabernacle? Let’s assume that they were in front of the altar.
Were they carrying something? In this case a bow is okay. Do they have bad knees? In this case a bow is okay. Were there no consecrated hosts reserved in the tabernacle? In this case a bow is okay.

They were in front of the altar and the Tabernacle is behind and above the altar in full view, and no they were not carrying anything; I would expect that the Deacon may have trouble genuflecting as he is of a senior age but the Priest is in his late30’s early 40’s. I always assumed that there are always Concercrated Hosts reserved in the Tabernacle. I know it is permisable for those who can not genuflect to do a full bow.

Yours in the Spirit

Pious.

 

[pazdziernik]

If the red light was on near the tabernacle then we can assume that there were consecrated hosts in the tabernacle. I have never heard of non-consecrated hosts being reserved in the tabernacle. (Even in the “wildest of places” this is not done.) Some places (not many) don’t like to reserve hosts in the tabernacle because they want all the hosts received at Mass to be the same ones consecrated at the same Mass. (Right. What’s the purpose of the tabernacle then?)

The genuflection is to Jesus Christ as Holy Eucharist, not to the tabernacle “box” per se. I would give the older priest some “slack” and consider the health of his knees, etc. The younger priest should have genuflected when passing in front of the tabernacle, and not carrying anything as you indicated. They younger priest was probably simply following the example of the older priest, but he should have genuflected because obviously it causes scandal.

 

[Bill_A]

My knees are going up and sometimes I dont genuflect. I try to stop and pause a minute if I dont. According to my liturgical calander. You can wear a Green trimed or Red Trimed Chaucible this weekend but why were green when You can wear red. Green is so ordinary.

In two weeks we will be in lent. SO no green.

 

[Detroit_Sue]

Pious:

Neither the Priest, Deacon or altar server genuflected in front of the Tabernacle which is present behind the altar, they all made a profound full bow.

If the priest or main celebrant is unable to genuflect, it is appropriate for those assisting/concelebrating to follow his lead. As someone above me said, he may have bad knees.

However, when you see blatant abuses, it is heartbreaking. I am curious as to why the priest wore a white chausable, too. Hopefully, you won’t have to work too many Sundays, so you can stay at your own parish.

 

[CrusaderNY]

Are you kidding, at my church the Bishop who says mass maybe does a little bow, but to the LAITY and not the tabernacle, which I dont even think exists any more. Our church is so sterile and plain, with the crucifix hanging from the ceiling, and as far as the altar, it is a table with a cloth on it,nothing more, no bible, candles, religious, nothing. And this is the Diocesean Church. What you have at your church is a blessing, it is more Orthodox than 90% of the Churches. The people are starting to notice what is going on, and it is up to us, the laity to make them aware that we want reverence back at our mass. I have never ONCE seen my Bishop genuflect , never

Pious:

I went to the Saturday 6pm Mass at another parish as I will be working on Sunday and would probably not be able to attend Mass in my own parish.

I was Baptised and attended this neighbouring parish up until my teens and then I moved house and attend the local parish, I accompanied my sister and my nephew to Church, the Mass started and I noticed that the Priest was wearing a white chasuble over his alb (I thought it is meant to be green as we are in ordinary times?) and the Deacon was only wearing his alb with a green stole (I am led to believe that the Deacons no longer wear the dalmatic).

Neither the Priest, Deacon or altar server genuflected in front of the Tabernacle which is present behind the altar, they all made a profound full bow.

When the gifts were brought up to the altar they were made from a speckled blue clay and the Eucharistic bread was brought up on two (what appeared to be) blue saucers, I thought that maybe the Priest would transfer the bread in to the ciborium before consecrating them but they remained on the plate piled up.

We did not say the Hail Mary (although I said it silently) and there were no Sanctus bells or incense.

I asked my sister what has happened to all the beautiful sacred vessels that used to be there and she said the new Priest decided to buy new ones when he took over from the old parish Priest (who was and still is a very traditional Priest) and that he also stopped the use of the incense and the Sanctus bells.

I am fortunate that my own parish is run by the Capuchins and that they follow the G.I.R.M. and make full use of the incense

Yours in the Spirit

Pious

 

[Matthaeus]

CrusaderNY:

Are you kidding, at my church the Bishop who says mass maybe does a little bow, but to the LAITY and not the tabernacle, which I dont even think exists any more. Our church is so sterile and plain, with the crucifix hanging from the ceiling, and as far as the altar, it is a table with a cloth on it,nothing more, no bible, candles, religious, nothing. And this is the Diocesean Church. What you have at your church is a blessing, it is more Orthodox than 90% of the Churches. The people are starting to notice what is going on, and it is up to us, the laity to make them aware that we want reverence back at our mass. I have never ONCE seen my Bishop genuflect , never

The Bible has no place on the altar. The Sacramentary yes, the Bible, no. It’s also quite acceptable to have floor-standing candle-holders.

Likewise the Lectionary and Book of Gospels (or Evangeliary) belong on the ambo, but not the Bible.

Finally, there is no problem with the crucifix hanging from the ceiling.

 

[Pious]

pazdziernik:

If the red light was on near the tabernacle then we can assume that there were consecrated hosts in the tabernacle.

The strange part is I could not see the red light, it used to be burning above the tabernacle, but it could have been moved and I just did not see it.

pazdziernik:

The genuflection is to Jesus Christ as Holy Eucharist, not to the tabernacle “box” per se. I would give the older priest some “slack” and consider the health of his knees, etc. The younger priest should have genuflected when passing in front of the tabernacle, and not carrying anything as you indicated. They younger priest was probably simply following the example of the older priest, but he should have genuflected because obviously it causes scandal.

I know the genuflection is to Christ in the Holy Eucharist, I can understand the Deacon bowing as he is older and there was no older Priest just the Deacon and the young Priest who was the main celebrant.

Bill_A:

According to my liturgical calander. You can wear a Green trimed or Red Trimed Chaucible this weekend but why were green when You can wear red. Green is so ordinary.

The only red that was showing was that of an outline of a red Cross on the front
Detroit Sue:

However, when you see blatant abuses, it is heartbreaking. I am curious as to why the priest wore a white chausable, too. Hopefully, you won’t have to work too many Sundays, so you can stay at your own parish.

I asked my own Priest why the Priest at the other parish would be wearing a white chausable (the strange thing is I was convinced he was not wearing one at first, it’s only when he walked past that I could see it flow, it wasn’t the traditional heavy type) and he said that he should have been wearing green and apparently this Priest at the other parish has upset many of his parishioners by doing away with things traditional i.e the removal of some statues, the Sanctus bells, stopping Benediction, incense and replacing the ciborium and chalice with a pot plate and goblet. A lot of his parishioners have come to my church and unfortunatly as this coming few months work is full of retreats so I have to work the Sunday, but what I have to remember is that although that Priest is very liberal or as my Priest calls him ‘a maverick’ he is still a Catholic Priest and the Mass is still valid.

Yours in the Spirit

Pious

 

[CrusaderNY]

Really, some people like to focus on the crucifix and the sacrifice our Lord made for them before communion instead of looking skyward, and with a tabernacle that is pushed off to the side next to the candles and collection box is just more of the same disrespect the Modern laity has for our Lord

Matthaeus:

The Bible has no place on the altar. The Sacramentary yes, the Bible, no. It’s also quite acceptable to have floor-standing candle-holders.

Likewise the Lectionary and Book of Gospels (or Evangeliary) belong on the ambo, but not the Bible.

Finally, there is no problem with the crucifix hanging from the ceiling.