I wish the Greek Orthodox would reunite with us

[KathleenGee]

I haven’t seen any Latin webpages saying bad things about Orthodox.
I read that the Greeks won’t forgive the Latin Church for what the Normans did a thousand years ago. Is that true?

I read also that what led to the Great Schism was likewise linguistic mistranslations and the higher ups know that, but the bulk of believers won’t accept reunification.

I think we will need to be nuked or something for the Church wings to re unite.

 

[dzheremi]

Why do some people in this thread think that the Eastern Catholic churches are a model for reunion with the Orthodox? (e.g., this stuff about the Maronites…whatever they have to do with anything…they’re Syriac, not Greek, and they don’t actually have an Orthodox counterpart that they officially recognize as their mother church, so you basically couldn’t pick a more irrelevant example.)

I thought the RC itself had repudiated the “U-Word” (ughhhh) model of union…

 

[qui_est_ce]

Why do some people in this thread think that the Eastern Catholic churches are a model for reunion with the Orthodox? (e.g., this stuff about the Maronites…whatever they have to do with anything…they’re Syriac, not Greek, and they don’t actually have an Orthodox counterpart that they officially recognize as their mother church, so you basically couldn’t pick a more irrelevant example.)

I thought the RC itself had repudiated the “U-Word” (ughhhh) model of union…

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but what we call the “Eastern Rite” churches in the Catholic Church are those communities that were in schism with Rome, but have since reconciled and returned home.

How does the nationality of their origin matter? Maronites were Syriac (Lebanese).

 

[dzheremi]

I’m not sure what you are trying to say. I was asking why some in this thread seem to be using the Eastern Catholic churches as examples of how the RC and the EO should be in union when it seems like Rome herself has repudiated that method of union (see, for instance, Peter J’s signature).

And I’m sorry, but I think you’re a little confused. The Maronites are Syriac as a matter of the cultural origins of their particular form of liturgy. Syriac is not a synonym for “Lebanese”. There are also Greek Orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, and other kinds of Christians in Lebanon who are just as Lebanese as anyone else, and of course many other Syriac people who are not from Lebanon (Syriac Orthodox in Iraq/Syria/Turkey/India; Assyrian Church of the East adherents in Iraq, Iran, and India; Assyro-Chaldeans in Iraq; etc.)

 

[qui_est_ce]

I’m not sure what you are trying to say. I was asking why some in this thread seem to be using the Eastern Catholic churches as examples of how the RC and the EO should be in union when it seems like Rome herself has repudiated that method of union (see, for instance, Peter J’s signature).

And I’m sorry, but I think you’re a little confused. The Maronites are Syriac as a matter of the cultural origins of their particular form of liturgy. Syriac is not a synonym for “Lebanese”. There are also Greek Orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, and other kinds of Christians in Lebanon who are just as Lebanese as anyone else, and of course many other Syriac people who are not from Lebanon (Syriac Orthodox in Iraq/Syria/Turkey/India; Assyrian Church of the East adherents in Iraq, Iran, and India; Assyro-Chaldeans in Iraq; etc.)

Please forgive my ignorance.

The Maronite Church in my city is comprised mainly of Lebanese. From their website:

Saint Raymond’s Maronite Cathedral is one of the Catholic Churches in Saint Louis, Missouri. However, we are very unique in several respects from our sister churches here in Saint Louis.

Many of our parishioners are of Arabic or Lebanese descent. You will find many families came over from the Middle East throughout the past 100 years. However, being Lebanese is not a requirement and anyone who loves our ancient Maronite tradition is encouraged to join our church.

straymondsmaronitecathedral.com/page10.php

There is also Maronite Shrine called Our Lady of Lebanon in Ohio.

 

[Peter_J]

I’m not sure what you are trying to say. I was asking why some in this thread seem to be using the Eastern Catholic churches as examples of how the RC and the EO should be in union when it seems like Rome herself has repudiated that method of union (see, for instance, Peter J’s signature).

I think you could say that Eastern Catholicism is just as much the model for unity as Western-Rite Orthodoxy is … which is to say, it isn’t.

 

[dzheremi]

I guess you could say that, but it’d be pretty irrelevant since no EO poster in this thread has suggested that Catholics look to the Western Rite as an example of how Catholics and Orthodox can reunite.

 

[Peter_J]

I guess you could say that, but it’d be pretty irrelevant since no EO poster in this thread has suggested that Catholics look to the Western Rite as an example of how Catholics and Orthodox can reunite.

Irrelevant, yes … unless you happened to read the part at the end (emphasis added):

I think you could say that Eastern Catholicism is just as much the model for unity as Western-Rite Orthodoxy is … **which is to say, it isn’t. **

 

[KathleenGee]

If only the two would return, how much richer our faith would be…I like many things about the Orthodox Church.

 

[Cavaradossi]

I haven’t particularly cared for the Orthodox I’ve met. The ones I’ve met have either been racists/nationalists/xenophobes (which is one of the reasons I chose Catholicism over Orthodoxy, thanks to Pope Benedict’s often condemning racism, whereas I hear nothing of the sort out of the nationalist eastern churches and their biggest former KGB patriarch allying himself with a dictator) or have always looked down Catholics the same way the Protestants do, i.e. as us being ignorant pew lumps who don’t know history or the bible or Jesus, really. Fine, enjoy your lovely liturgies. Good luck trying to find young people to go to them when they’ve finally seen through all the claims of the Church about speaking for God when they can’t even stop their own divisions. Immigration supporting you will run out rather soon with western birthrates going in the toilet.

I am sure that they did not care particularly for such a bitter attitude either.

 

[Peter_J]

If only the two would return, how much richer our faith would be…I like many things about the Orthodox Church.

Well actually, a lot more than two have returned – if by return you mean become Catholic.

The thing is, if a certain number of Orthodox become Catholic, and about the same number of Catholics become Orthodox, then what have those “returns” really accomplished?

 

[KathleenGee]

I don’t know except we are united in mind.

 

[wynd]

I haven’t seen any Latin webpages saying bad things about Orthodox.

Check out the comments of any Catholic blog when the topic of Orthodoxy comes up.

 

[spina1953]

The first thing to promote is the unity of charity. Where holy charity rules, we won’t willfully distort what others say, or take delight in exacerbating problems, even if we feel obliged not to concur where doctrines are in fact different. Unfortunately, just as there are Jews who promote lies about and hatred of Pius XII, and who resented the canonization of St. Teresa Benedicta (Edith Stein), there are certain Orthodox teachers who promote hatred of Catholic devotion. I was alarmed to find, on one Orthodox website, a long article condemning the Imitation of Christ as an anti-Christian and heretical book. And a decade ago I made friends with a Copt who, nonetheless, sneered angrily whenever I mentioned St. John Paul II.

We’re to think the best of each other, especially where we have learned Christ and believe that He gives Himself sacrificially in the eucharist. We aren’t called to “fix” the problem; only to be docile to the Holy Spirit.

Hi Carmel Jerome: I have to with you on your statement Charity of neighbor and we should try to take out the sliver in one’s eyes without first looking the plank in our own eyes.

 

[spina1953]

There are many different Catholic’s that are not of the Latin rite. Some are Lebanese Catholic’s, Armenian Catholic’s, Syriac Catholic’s Assyrian Catholic’s, Chaldean Catholic’s, Coptic Catholic’s, Melkite Catholic’s, Byzantine Catholic’s etc. etc. etc. As far as I am concerned they are all Catholic no matter what rite they belong to and it seems to me that their practice and traditions is what up the Catholic Church and I think that they run their own Churches as they well without the Pope interfering with everything that they do.

I lived in a small town near the boarder in AZ. the Catholic Church I attended had both Mexicans and non-Mexicans with one priest who spoke both Spanish ands English and to top it off we were not two Churches but one Church and we got along well together without any problems as to who was better then the other.

 

[Peter_J]

Peter J;12117889:

Although I do truly (and non-sarcastically ) appreciate the offer, I’m going to refuse in much the same way that Orthodox refuse our offer when we say that they can receive in Catholic Churches.

Well, it would not be an offer if it could not be refused. :sad_bye:

True. But reading your post, something else occurs to me: In my experience, people who extend such offers don’t always take too kindly to being refused (i.e. Anglican offers being turned down by Catholics, Catholics offers being turned down by Orthodox, etc).

 

[wumpiesmommy]

What makes you believe that we’ll reunite with us in the next 25 years?

What is truly sad is that many of the Orthodox for some strange reason believes we have different unrelated beliefs. If you go back to the first 7-800 years there were variations on a theme which were totally acceptable in the early Church whether east or west.

In fact the only real difference we possess is about some hierarchical structure related to the Bishop of Rome and even that is way overplayed, all be it that the Orthodox under believe what the Pope has and the majority of Catholics over believe. Everything else is acceptable and should never be a reason for separation.

If you listen to some of the Orthodox posters you would swear that their current beliefs are what the ancient Church held to, down to the nth degree, when in fact the options of beliefs they have now are in many respects different in many nuanced ways, yet the very same freedoms they allow themselves in nuance they do not allow others.

The reality is that we will eventually be as one and there will be a rejoinder, once clarification is made over the hierarchical Church structure and though it may seem a long time away, I have no doubt that within 25 years we will be together.

 

[wumpiesmommy]

To the OP: Thank you for your sentiments. I and many other Orthodox (we’re not all of the Greek variety but it’s a common mistake) ardently wish for reunion also. A lot of what separates us is just history. But what we need from Catholics is a willingness to reexamine some of the developments that took place in your church following the schism.

So do Russian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox share the same beliefs as one another? Please elaborate on “some of the developments that took place in our church following the schism”. Not for argument, just for clarity.

 

[wumpiesmommy]

True. But reading your post, something else occurs to me: In my experience, people who extend such offers don’t always take too kindly to being refused (i.e. Anglican offers being turned down by Catholics, Catholics offers being turned down by Orthodox, etc).

I appreciate the polite decline, actually. The fact that you were kind enough to a) acknowledge the invitation and b) appreciate it merely stands to show why I like the Orthodox so much in the first place. I will continue, however, to visit your church as often as possible.

 

[wumpiesmommy]

I’ve written about this before, but at the RC church in which I was baptized, the Latino population and the Anglo population essentially functioned as different churches, because they not only had their own (separate) priests to serve each community (as is right, since the Anglo priest did not know Spanish), but the sermons preached the two did not match, so they were literally getting different messages (the Anglos got messages about…whatever, I don’t remember, but the Latinos heard about how the white people donated $$$$$ money that week, while we only donated $$, so we should donate more so that we can show our commitment to church is equal to theirs; I am not exaggerating or kidding). I know this because I was the only one who ever went to both services, and I know I was not the only person of mixed Anglo-Latino background in the town (and where I grew up there were plenty of white people who knew Spanish and Hispanic people who knew English, so I guess this shows that those darn Catholics are just so ‘ethnic’…they don’t want to go to the other ethnicity’s service, even though they conceivably could without problems! There can be no other explanation, of course.)

I absolutely do not buy the RC canard that the Orthodox are ‘ethnic’, while those of the Roman communion are universal and all-inclusive and whatever. No doubt that’s the goal and that’s how some people see it, but the reality leaves a lot to be desired.

I will give the RC amateur apologists this, though: the majority of native-born, zero generation Orthodox in the west don’t care that their church is Greek, Syrian, Slavic, Egyptian, whatever, so in that sense I guess they could be seen as “ethnic”, since they don’t bend over backwards to make a church that has its roots in Egypt or Ethiopia or wherever seem like it came out of suburban Ohio or something. Good. Macaroni bechamel is better than hot dogs, and if you can’t deal with the fact that you’re a minority in the congregation for once, then maybe you’ve got a problem, rather than the people who are just going to the same liturgy they’ve been participating in for centuries when you showed up. This applies equally to Orthodox and Catholics – or are Syro-Malabar, Syro-Malankara, Chaldean, Syriac, Syro-Maronite, Ethiopian and Eritrean (“Ge’ez”), Coptic, Ruthenian, Melkite, Mozarab, Bragan, and Italo-Albanian Catholics somehow not Catholic, or do not comprise their own distinct ethnocultural and/or national groups?

I’m American and white and I frequent Hispanic masses and GO liturgies despite not speaking a word of Greek. Catholics must recall that until recent years our own liturgies were in Latin! At our church btw the English and Hispanic masses are identical. I do speak Spanish.