I wish you could know

[Kolbe300]

This is the first time I’ve posted to this board, so I start by saying hello to all of you. I am a devout Catholic, a wannabe apologist, and a gay man. I came to this board interested in learning and sharing with others, both Catholic and non-Catholic. I was struck by the number of threads dealing with homosexuality and have spent two days and too many hours looking at different threads on the subject and the subsequent discussions. Because I often times had a near irresistible urge to throw my computer out the window, I’ve decided the best thing I can do is offer some (name removed by moderator)ut. (I can’t afford another computer.)
I was saddened so much by the enormous lack of empathy and abundance of callousness I saw from many Catholics on this board. Fortunately, I believe that much of this is the result of a total lack of understanding. Unfortunately, that lack of understanding and empathy runs rampant in our society and our Church.
What I earnestly ask is that each of you, as much as it is possible, take off your shoes for the next couple of minutes and imagine that you are wearing mine.
As I mentioned before, I am a homosexual man. I am also celibate, because I believe Christ has asked that of me. (Did your view of me change when I told you I was celibate?) I have struggled immensely in this life, as many of us have. I have been attracted to those of the same sex my entire life. I have struggled with that fact since grade school. Never in my life have I been physically attracted to a female. I did not choose to be gay anymore than I chose to be right handed. I was never abused in any way as a child. I have a beautiful and loving family with two parents (whom I adore) that have been married for 40 years.
Through middle school and high school, I cried myself to sleep more times than I can count. For years I literally begged God to change my sexuality. For years I begged Him to forgive me, not for what I had done (because I’d done nothing wrong) but for who I was. I grew up listening to priests never so much as whisper the word homosexual. And they certainly never taught me that it was the act that is sinful, not the person. I had to learn that on my own and it would be years before I did. I grew up watching televangelists preach of the certain damnation I could count on experiencing because “God certainly wouldn’t create a mistake.” Unfortunately, little has changed.
What saddens me is the way that Catholics are so quick to show compassion towards homosexuals who believe in what the Church teaches while simultaneously speaking callously and sometimes downright mean towards those who struggle with the Church’s teaching. It’s here that I often see an utter and complete absence of empathy.
Imagine this for a minute: You are born heterosexual, just as you most likely were. Imagine the beauty you’ve seen in those of the opposite sex, God’s very creations. Imagine the love you’ve shared with girlfriends or boyfriends. Imagine how right the love you share with your spouse feels, how that attraction and love runs to the very core of your being. Now imagine that the rest of the world is homosexual. Imagine that the world and your Church tell you that not only are your attractions (the ones you’ve had since you were a child) wrong, but intrinsically evil. I beg you to imagine how that feels. Can you see, if only for an instant, why those gay men and women might fight for marriage and might feel wrongly condemned?
Make no mistake; I don’t do this to make an argument for gay marriage or anything of the sort. I believe with all my heart in the Church’s teachings. I just pray that maybe one person will think about this before they are so quick to judge without compassion and to preach without empathy. Those men and women are not out there to get you. They aren’t trying to destroy the Church or the sacrament of Marriage. They are confused, they are scared, and more often than not they are persecuted. Most importantly, they are loved immensly by God. The Church demands that the homosexual person pick up a very specific cross and she hasn’t always done it nicely. I do not choose to be celibate as a priest does. Celibacy is demanded of me and I have no hope for marriage. I face what could be a very lonely life. It is a cross and, as you all know, a cross can be very difficult at times to embrace.
I’m never amazed that gay men and women aren’t flooding into the Catholic Church. I pray that someday they will. Thankfully, I see the truth that lies beneath. I see Christ and the gift of His Church and His Sacraments. I love being Catholic. What I pray for is a time when Catholics can look at the gay community and say, “I can understand why you desire marriage and acceptance.” That kind of empathy goes so much further than repulsion and judgement.
If you’ve made it this far I thank you. I will pray for all of you and hope you pray for me.

Peace

 

[stringbeanduck]

I’m sure your a good person. Be happy you can do so much in life; and work to get closer with God. Welcome to the Catholic forums.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

yeah, it’s sickining sometimes.

But I’m not really in the mainstream here, so don’t be to encouraged by my post.

 

[blessedtoo]

I was saddened so much by the enormous lack of empathy and abundance of callousness I saw from many Catholics on this board. Fortunately, I believe that much of this is the result of a total lack of understanding. Unfortunately, that lack of understanding and empathy runs rampant in our society and our Church.

Welcome to CAF. Contrary to your assertion that “gay men and women aren’t flooding into the Church”, here at CAF we have a glut of SSA folks who are living a chaste life according to the teachings of our Church. Somehow the word is getting out that Christ’s true Church “understands” the unique cross of the homosexual and is extending a compassionate hand to help those who want to live in the truth.

When I first started visiting CAF a few years ago, I must admit I was somewhat startled by the frank and unadorned proclamations of Catholic teaching. As someone who frequents this site daily (I’m not proud!), I can testify that it is a very rare day indeed that this topic is not discussed anew. First time posters, lurkers who finally speak and often, bold dissenters come to this site for two reasons: to provoke or to learn. Many of us have grown familiar (and weary) with the tactics of the former. Most of us are thrilled and excited to address and support the latter.

Please don’t assume that folks here “don’t understand” the issues that homosexuals must address. If you took a poll, you would quickly discover that most of us have family or dear friends in the lifestyle. Many of us WERE in the lifestyle. Those who come to CAF seeking compassion and understanding will usually receive that, along with the honest truth of Catholic teaching. Those who come here seeking acceptance and approval for their homosexual behavior and who even argue for condonation will meet with resistance. If this appears to be uncompassionate, that is not the intention.

Welcome again. We are very glad to have you!

 

[manualman]

It is truly difficult to teach clearly and be compassionate at the same time. Surely you can see clearly that there are legion in the gay rights movement who wish to see homosexual promiscuity normalized and who are working hard to marginalize the Church for her stance (the real one that you apparently agree with). From Canada threatening to jail a bishop who dared to affirm Church teaching, to British and US states who have effectively banned catholic adoption agencies via mandatory criteria contrary to church teachings and many more examples, many catholics have a knee jerk reaction to homosexuals as a whole instead of recognizing the difference between the orientation and the ideology.

We need groups like Courage to be more widely supported and spoken of since they clearly demonstrate the difference between the church’s moral teaching on homosexual activity and the inappropriate popular disdain for PEOPLE burdened with a SSA.

Since it is a hard balance to maintain and we live in a culture that revels in conflict (too often on BOTH sides), don’t expect perfection anytime soon.

 

[CarrieH]

Welcome to the forums, and thank you for sharing your perspective. As a civilly-divorced but not-anulled person, I can relate to the struggles of living a life of chastity and “not-belonging,” and the cross of loneliness. My heart goes out to you and to all who are trying to live chastely without the hope of intimate companionship. I hope you will find acceptance and compassion here. God bless you.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I agree with most of what you have said. I do not believe it is really humanly possible to do this ‘hate the sin, love the sinner’ thing that so many here claim to do. I am another who is out there a bit, so of course my opinion doesn’t really count. One of the curses of monotheism, and yes I think it’s the proper belief, is that it by definition separates into us and them, insiders, outsiders, the saved, the unsaved etc. The Catholic church is perhaps unprecedented in its separation of people. One can hardly figure out the labyrinth of which marriage is valid and which is not. You can be Catholic and marry a divorced person and lo and behold, you’re suddenly a sinner. This when the divorced person was never and still is not a Catholic. There are a dozen or more reasons that this person or that can’t celebrate the Eucharist.

I am deeply disturbed by the lack of empathy I find here. I’ve been getting a number of emails recently from old CFA folks who visit from time to time but no longer post. They claim the same sadness and confusion. I am awed by someone’s desire to lead a separate and celibate life in order to remain within the Church’s graces. I am troubled that anyone thinks they have the right to judge others under the guise of “not supporting them in their sin.”
I wish you well. There is a definite “holier than thou” attitude among many here. There is a definite Pharisidic bent to many posts. I find it exceedingly hard to square with Christian love and charity.

 

[daeve]

Welcome to the forums, and thank you for sharing your perspective. As a civilly-divorced but not-anulled person, I can relate to the struggles of living a life of chastity and “not-belonging,” and the cross of loneliness. My heart goes out to you and to all who are trying to live chastely without the hope of intimate companionship. I hope you will find acceptance and compassion here. God bless you.

Same here, divorced and sometimes lonely. It’s very scary to think of being alone for the rest of my life, and it’s already been almost 20 years. There are times when friends just aren’t enough, but there’s nothing more for many of us.

OP, there are many who sympathize and empathize with you. You’ll be in my prayers and I hope you’ll keep me in yours. There are a lot more people in this boat than you might expect.

 

[Kolbe300]

Welcome to CAF. Contrary to your assertion that “gay men and women aren’t flooding into the Church”, here at CAF we have a glut of SSA folks who are living a chaste life according to the teachings of our Church.

Thank you for welcoming me and for replying. I wish I was as optimistic about the number of gay people coming to the Church as you are. How many SSA folks do you think are on this board, working to live celibately? 100? 200? 500? There are thousands upon thousands of gay people outside the Church looking in. In 31 years I have never heard a homily on how to live a chaste life as an SSA Catholic. Not once. And I am the homosexual who goes to church every Sunday.

Somehow the word is getting out that Christ’s true Church “understands” the unique cross of the homosexual and is extending a compassionate hand to help those who want to live in the truth.

I learned of the Church’s compassion through reading the Catechism and through spiritual direction from a wonderful priest. I wish the Church as a whole could extend a more visible “compassionate hand.” I discerned the priesthood for a year before the letter came out banning the ordination of men like me. It said that I am disordered and inherintely immoral (aren’t we all?) because of my sexuality. It also said that I am unable to correctly relate to both men and women. My heart shattered for the men (who happen to be gay) who relate beautifuly to both men and women, the same men who hold the Blessed Sacrament up behind the altar every Sunday. The Church’s approach is often times very unwelcoming. Thankfully, the truth is out there. Sometimes you just have to really dig for it. My prayer is that people won’t have to dig so hard.

Those who come to CAF seeking compassion and understanding will usually receive that, along with the honest truth of Catholic teaching. Those who come here seeking acceptance and approval for their homosexual behavior and who even argue for condonation will meet with resistance. If this appears to be uncompassionate, that is not the intention.

I am truly thankful that those seeking compassion and understanding usually receive it. In order to follow Christ, however, we must show that same compassion to those who don’t seek it. To be Christ-like, compassion will often be a sacrifice. It’s a sacrifice I hope more Catholics will be willing to make.

Thank you again so much for your warm welcome and comments.

Peace and Love

 

[Kolbe300]

It is truly difficult to teach clearly and be compassionate at the same time.

It may be difficult (I don’t believe it usually is) but it certainly isn’t impossible.

Surely you can see clearly that there are legion in the gay rights movement who wish to see homosexual promiscuity normalized and who are working hard to marginalize the Church for her stance (the real one that you apparently agree with).

 

[Kolbe300]

CarrieH, SpiritMeadow, and daeve:

Thank you very much for your replies and kind words. (That goes for everyone who has commented!) I appreciate your prayers so much and assure you that you are all in mine. It’s interesting because I had never really sat down and thought about how similar the situation is for those who are divorced and working to live a celibate life. The cross we carry will always be worth it. Christ showed us that so beautifully.

Merry Christmas!

Peace and Love

 

[blessedtoo]

Thank you for welcoming me and for replying. I wish I was as optimistic about the number of gay people coming to the Church as you are. How many SSA folks do you think are on this board, working to live celibately? 100? 200? 500? There are thousands upon thousands of gay people outside the Church looking in. In 31 years I have never heard a homily on how to live a chaste life as an SSA Catholic. Not once. And I am the homosexual who goes to church every Sunday.

I can’t give you exact numbers (I could if I did a bit of research!) but I can tell you that when I started visiting these forums three years ago there were only two regular posters who identified as SSA and living chaste lives. In the last year alone, at least 10 new people have joined this forum identifying the same way. Here is a great thread you might like to read:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=151591
In my years of going to Mass (daily Mass included), I have never heard a homily on chasitity in marriage, chastity as a single person, abortion, masturbation, or homosexuality. Clearly, the Church is not going to use the pulpit at Mass to speak directly to these issues and that is unfortunate, IMO. Since we know this, we must assume the responsibility ourselves of learning and understanding the truths of our faith.

I learned of the Church’s compassion through reading the Catechism and through spiritual direction from a wonderful priest. I wish the Church as a whole could extend a more visible “compassionate hand.”

This was my route as well. In addition, I tuned in to Catholic radio and visited this forum. For me, it was vital to fully understand the “why” of Church teaching. I do believe She is trying to “extend a compassionate hand” and I see this in the recent document issued from the USCCB as well as some of B16’s documents. But one has to be cautious with this concept of “compassion”, that it is not confused (as is often the case) with acceptance. Our culture does not grasp the meaning of Christian compassion and this confusion very often spills over into the lives of Catholics, including the clergy.

It said that I am disordered and inherintely immoral (aren’t we all?) because of my sexuality.

No. The Church does not teach that YOU are disordered. The inclination to same sex attraction is. She does not teach that YOU are inherently immoral. The acts themselves are. Please, let’s not confuse the two.

It also said that I am unable to correctly relate to both men and women. My heart shattered for the men (who happen to be gay) who relate beautifuly to both men and women

Yes, this can sound like a harsh statement. But it is true nonetheless. It is not a question of how well or how “beautifully” homosexuals relate to others. It is a statement about a relationship that is not ordered properly which, when one reflects on it, makes all kinds of sense.

I am truly thankful that those seeking compassion and understanding usually receive it. In order to follow Christ, however, we must show that same compassion to those who don’t seek it.

Can you describe what this compassion would look like when extended to those who are unwilling to repent?

 

[agangbern]

 What I earnestly ask is that each of you, as much as it is possible, take off your shoes for the next couple of minutes and imagine that you are wearing mine. 
 As I mentioned before, I am a homosexual man. I am also celibate, because I believe Christ has asked that of me. (Did your view of me change when I told you I was celibate?) I have struggled immensely in this life, as many of us have. I have been attracted to those of the same sex my entire life. I have struggled with that fact since grade school. Never in my life have I been physically attracted to a female. I did not choose to be gay anymore than I chose to be right handed. I was never abused in any way as a child. I have a beautiful and loving family with two parents (whom I adore) that have been married for 40 years.

First, before I take off my shoes and wear yours, please let me see your shoes. Please help me understand what you mean by “attracted to the same sex”. When I, a heterosexual, say I am attracted to someone, it means I like that someone; I like his/her face; I like his/her outlook in life; I like his/her physical and non-physical attributes; I like his/her constant company. If this liking is directed to someone of the same sex, does this make one a homosexual?

 

[Newbie2]

In response to the OP, yep, there are a lot of Pharisees around the forum…

but at the same time, a lot who are not. Sometimes, methinks, there are reactions to the secular homosexual activist movement that spill over on the discussion of how the Church should minister to homosexual individuals.

I had a chance to sit down and listen to a homosexual person describe the loss of their partner and was surprised when this person said that I was the first person he’d spoken to about this since his friend’s death, six months previously.

It sure gave me a different perspective on the individual human aspects, and I think this happened for a reason. Even though I have not changed in my view on homosexuality (same as the Church), it personalized the struggle that some homosexuals go through. Granted, this person wasn’t struggling with their orientation, but obviously he had difficulty finding someone to talk with about his loss.

So, in reply to an earlier post, with God’s grace, I’ve been able in this case to separate the sin from the sinner and show compassion for this person’s loss…it is possible!

 

[Kolbe300]

Clearly, the Church is not going to use the pulpit at Mass to speak directly to these issues and that is unfortunate, IMO.

I agree, and it saddens me. I also feel it is something we as lay people should not sit back and accept. I had a priest (during a spiritual direction session) shake his head and say, “Why aren’t we preaching these things?” I think priests are simply afraid to touch some subjects and I sympathise with that. Spiritual direction, the radio, and reading a Catechism should not be the only way one hears of the Church’s teaching. If I’m not hearing it inside the Church, how on earth are those outside the Church, feeling condemned by it, ever going to hear the truth? I feel the Church is shooting itself in the foot here.

But one has to be cautious with this concept of “compassion”, that it is not confused (as is often the case) with acceptance. Our culture does not grasp the meaning of Christian compassion and this confusion very often spills over into the lives of Catholics, including the clergy.

I agree. And one should always remember that compassion without acceptance is possible.

No. The Church does not teach that YOU are disordered. The inclination to same sex attraction is. She does not teach that YOU are inherently immoral. The acts themselves are. Please, let’s not confuse the two.

Blessedtoo, my sexuality is not an “inclination” anymore than yours is. I don’t have a tendency to be gay at times. Do you think you are inclined to be heterosexual or would you say that you are heterosexual? I am not defined by my sexuality. My sexuality, however, is a part of the puzzle that is me. I don’t ignore it because it’s impossible to ignore it. Maybe we are looking at what that means differently. To me, it would be no different than if the Church said to a blind man, “You aren’t blind, just your eyes are.” That person’s eyes, no matter how disordered, are still a part of that person as a whole.

Yes, this can sound like a harsh statement. But it is true nonetheless. It is not a question of how well or how “beautifully” homosexuals relate to others. It is a statement about a relationship that is not ordered properly which, when one reflects on it, makes all kinds of sense.

Is there any chance you can expand on how you believe this blanket statement is true? The statement doesn’t just sound harsh, it is harsh. It is also blatantly untrue in many cases. Do some gay men have issues relating to people? Yes, of course. Is this true for straight men as well? Yes, of course. I’m curious, do you have anyone in your family or any close friends who are gay?

Can you describe what this compassion would look like when extended to those who are unwilling to repent

Yes. It looks like Jesus and it loves like Jesus. It is compassion without a finish line, it loves the deepest of sinners and most importantly, it never gives up on a human being’s chance to repent. In other words, it’s a compassion that is always available.

Peace and Love

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Kolbe,

How does one that is not a homosexual but that is a Catholic and fully agrees with all that the Church teaches in regards to homosexuality express those views without coming across as un-compassionate?
Some of us come across unintentionally as un-compassionate towards homosexuals when we speak of what the Church teaches because the message from the church is not what they (some homosexuals) want to hear. So to a practicing homosexual the message is un-compassionate, when it is not intended to be.
Does this make sense??

 

[Kolbe300]

First, before I take off my shoes and wear yours, please let me see your shoes. Please help me understand what you mean by “attracted to the same sex”. When I, a heterosexual, say I am attracted to someone, it means I like that someone; I like his/her face; I like his/her outlook in life; I like his/her physical and non-physical attributes; I like his/her constant company. If this liking is directed to someone of the same sex, does this make one a homosexual?

Hi agangbern! Thanks for your response. I’m honestly not sure why you would ask if “liking” someone of the same sex makes one homosexual. Maybe I don’t understand what you mean by “like”. Please forgive me (and I mean that honestly) if your question was genuine, but isn’t the answer to that obvious? Don’t we all “like” people of both sexes?

I was trying to show a bit of my experience and struggles as a gay person. When I say “attracted to the same sex” in that context, it means that any desire for physical intimacy and any sexual attraction that I have ever had has been for males, never females.

I hope that helps and I hope the shoes fit! Trust me though, you’ll want to take them off before long.

Peace and Love

 

[Kolbe300]

Kolbe,

How does one that is not a homosexual but that is a Catholic and fully agrees with all that the Church teaches in regards to homosexuality express those views without coming across as un-compassionate?
Some of us come across unintentionally as un-compassionate towards homosexuals when we speak of what the Church teaches because the message from the church is not what they (some homosexuals) want to hear. So to a practicing homosexual the message is un-compassionate, when it is not intended to be.
Does this make sense??

Hi wifeandmomoftwo! Yes, that makes absolute sense and I’m so glad you asked it because that is the whole point of my posting the thread to begin with. The heart of the Church’s teaching is compassionate. The way some people share that teaching is not. Mother Teresa (the greatest role model of our time, in my opinion), I believe is the greatest example of how to preach the truth with compassion. She cared for many, many people who were outside of the Church, she cared for great sinners, she cared for those who had different faiths that didn’t meld with what our Church believes. She ministered to all of these people with love and compassion. They knew what she believed because she preached it and she lived it. And after preaching the truth she then loved them, loved them, and then loved them some more. Their conversion was never a requirement for her love or her treating them with compassion.

I hear people say that if someone refuses the teaching then let them be on their way (in not so nice a term, mind you). I say, I agree. But if that person comes back, we had better open our arms. And when that person leaves, they had better feel loved when they do. If they don’t feel loved, then it’s our failing. I’ve seen too much of the exact opposite in our society and on this board.

Do you remember when Mother Teresa addressed our Congress on the issue of abortion? She was brutally honest, she told them exactly what she believed and what she felt they should know. In spite of this, do you think a single person left that building thinking, “She hates us. I don’t ever want to deal with her again” ? How do you think she would treat a doctor who performs abortions? I believe she would treat them with the same love she would treat you. She would not be afraid to tell him what she believes, but that doctor would walk away knowing he was loved. And I believe it’s that love that brings people BACK.

What I have yet to see on this board is someone who tells the homosexual person, “I can understand why you might feel that way.” Everyone seems to think that the gay person sees the truth, believes the truth, and then denies the truth. What people need to understand is why that gay person is having immense trouble believing the truth. People need to take a step back and empathise with these people. Empathy does NOT equal acceptance.

Imagine if the Church and society said that the attractions and love you have had for those of the opposite sex is and always has been immoral. That you are in a state of mortal sin because you’ve expressed that love physically with your husband. Oh, and by the way, that isn’t love because you couldn’t know what love is because you’re straight. Can you see how that could be a struggle for you to simply say, “Oh yeah, you’re right. I’m in.” Most of these men and women are not fighting the truth because they know it’s the truth. They’re fighting it because they can’t believe it could BE the truth.

I know it’s the truth and I want them so desperately to see it as well. I pray one day they will. What I can do and will do is understand compassionately why they are struggling. That is why I think they deserve a compassion they often times aren’t receiving. I hope this helps. Thank you again for the question.

Peace and Love

 

[blessedtoo]

What I have yet to see on this board is someone who tells the homosexual person, “I can understand why you might feel that way.” Everyone seems to think that the gay person sees the truth, believes the truth, and then denies the truth. What people need to understand is why that gay person is having immense trouble believing the truth. People need to take a step back and empathise with these people. Empathy does NOT equal acceptance.

Then perhaps you need to hang around a bit longer. Check out the thread I linked for you. There are many folks here who not only understand, but have lived it themselves or are currently living it. There are also many, many members here who are struggling with equally heavy crosses that do not have the same social cache as the homosexual issues.

A very dear friend of mine once observed that it was likely possible for most gay folks to look back at the FIRST time they engaged in homosexual acts and admit that they knew the behavior was wrong. I think this axiom is useful in every area of life. Once you conquer the guilt of the “first time” by justification, denial, and rejection of those perfectly natural guilt feelings, you have now begun the process of deadening the conscience. As C.S. Lewis tells us, it is nearly impossible to recognize sin when you are knee deep in it. The very act of continuous sin numbs us and our hearts to the truth. It’s like a drunk who refuses to admit he is intoxicated until the next day, after he has sobered up and recalls how very, very hammered he was.

Imagine if the Church and society said that the attractions and love you have had for those of the opposite sex is and always has been immoral. That you are in a state of mortal sin because you’ve expressed that love physically with your husband. Oh, and by the way, that isn’t love because you couldn’t know what love is because you’re straight. Can you see how that could be a struggle for you to simply say, “Oh yeah, you’re right. I’m in.” Most of these men and women are not fighting the truth because they know it’s the truth. They’re fighting it because they can’t believe it could BE the truth.

The Church does not have a very “user friendly” message for heterosexuals either so let’s not play the game of “who has it worse.” In our culture today, the message of chastity until marriage, chastity in marriage, and chastity if your not married is as foreign and harsh as it’s message on homosexuality. The Church teaching regarding divorce, annulment, birth control, etc., are all “harsh” when considered from a sex obsessed cultural perspective. We are called, as Catholics, to be in the world but not of it. We must come to these issues with a different approach and we must bring these issues to the world in a way that does not cause even more confusion.

Again, while you seem to be under the impression that active homosexuals are unaware of the sinfulness of their behavior, I would assert that most knew at one time. The fact that they have chosen to ignore or anesthetize the natural and appropriate feelings of guilt points to the direct of effect of unrepentent sin. We are told in the NT:

Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts 15 for the mutual degradation of their bodies.
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever.

I sent you a PM in response to your other questions!

 

[Kolbe300]

Sometimes, methinks, there are reactions to the secular homosexual activist movement that spill over on the discussion of how the Church should minister to homosexual individuals.

I absolutely agree.

It sure gave me a different perspective on the individual human aspects, and I think this happened for a reason. Even though I have not changed in my view on homosexuality (same as the Church), it personalized the struggle that some homosexuals go through. Granted, this person wasn’t struggling with their orientation, but obviously he had difficulty finding someone to talk with about his loss.

It is wonderful to hear someone say that. I’ve found that the most judgemental people against homosexuals rarely have a gay friend or family member. Let me re-phrase that. They don’t KNOW they have a gay friend or family member.

So, in reply to an earlier post, with God’s grace, I’ve been able in this case to separate the sin from the sinner and show compassion for this person’s loss…it is possible!

It is possible! And God bless you for proving it. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas. Thanks for your reply.

Peace and Love