I would like for someone here to explain to me how, “Bible alone” and “personal interpretation” of the Bible… is a good thing.

[c659smith]

I think today we all read the bible and then interpet out what we think we understand. However the problem comes when we do not discuss what the meaning is and how one achieved an interpetation.

Bible study has been with the Catholic Church for over 2000 years and is a living document and Body of Christ that has under gone many different interpetations through the centuries even from the Church.

such as

Women are no longer required to wear a head cover.

Women can ministry

We no longer pluck our eys out.

We do not fast for days or weeks.

However we do rely on the Church for It’s Sacred Teachings, and Traditions.

 

[sandusky]

inJESUS:

it wouldnt matter if millions are teaching opposing things?

The number of opposing views does not negate the fact that only one truth exists, and scripture is clear with respect to who will hear the truth, and understand it.

inJESUS:

yes because obviously many will not be teaching sound doctrines and we see this…LSD, JW and Catholics cannot all be true, can they?

No; there is only one truth.

inJESUS:

didn’t God know about it?so how will He expect us all to understand the same when many are opposing?

That assumes that God’s purpose is for everyone to hear and understand the truth; a read through the OT, and an understanding of God’s relationship with Israel should dispel that assumption; nevertheless, your question is consistent with your view of God, your view of Christ, your view of man, and your view on the outworking of salvation.

inJESUS:

if God cares about truth being taught, and if He promises the gates of hell will not prevail against His church, and if this church happens to be from the very begining, then on what grounds should i be questioning if God took care of His truth being taught?

You shouldn’t, and forgive me for broaching the subject.

inJESUS:

what does ISTM stand for?

It Seems To Me.

inJESUS:

because Protestants have thousands denoms and each one says their teachings are the truth but it is impossible. the same could e applied to LSD and JW.

You don’t really believe that of the many thousands of denominations each one is true, do you?

I don’t.

 

[sandusky]

pismopal:

These arguments are, at least some of them, from non Catholics in good faith but…this is exactly why I entered the Catholic Church. I was tired of all the graduates of match book cover preacher schools coming up with their own private versions of a faith that was shaped 2000 years ago and even worse, some of these persons didn’t even graduate from a preacher school.

Neither did the apostles graduate from preacher school.

In fact, after three years of private tutoring by God, they still didn’t get it.

But at the appointed time of the promise of the giving of the Spirit, they understood.

The same is true of the least of the saints.

 

[Jimmy_B]

I would think it is because most all the threads started by you tend to be a blantant attack disguised as a question.

In this thread, for example, you appear to ask a question by using the poll, but the first post is telling us how it can’t possibly be a good thing to have personal interpretation. That is generally the standard Jimmy B thread.

Normally, your next post would be something to the effect that you aren’t trying to attack anyone, just want to know, but the attack is in the original post.

Hello jesusluv,

Thank you for your post, all of your kind words and advice. Am I not entitled an opportunity to voice an opinion, or have any (name removed by moderator)ut, after asking a question? Please stay on-topic, instead of addressing my personally…Thanks.

Now, do you have a opinion one way or another? This is a discusion forum, after-all, is it not?

Peace

 

[jesusluv]

Hello jesusluv,

Thank you for your post, all of your kind words and advice. Am I not entitled an opportunity to voice an opinion, or have any (name removed by moderator)ut, after asking a question? Please stay on-topic, instead of addressing my personally…Thanks.

Now, do you have a opinion one way or another? This is a discusion forum, after-all, is it not?

Peace

I apologize for getting on a personal level with you in my first post. I shouldn’t have done that. I’m not Protestant, so I can’t really give that side of it.

I really just wanted to kind of be “devil’s advocate” here. catholics, myself included, always make the claim that protestants pick and choose one or two verses to stand on. In this particular argument over personal interpretation, we do exactly what we claim the protestants do. Every catholic throws up those 2 verses from 2 Peter to defend our stance as to why you can’t interpret personally, but we will rip a protestant to shreds for using just one or two verses.

Those verses from 2 Peter pertain to prophetic writings only though. The Church doesn’t give an outright “you have to believe this” about every verse in the bible and many are left to personal interpretation and belief. One being a belief in evolution as long as you believe God created man. Another would be the world being created in 7 days, or thousands of years.

So, Scripture pertaining to prophetic events can only have one valid interpretation, and my “personal interpretation” on those verses from 2 Peter is that while I can’t attempt to pull something that isn’t there out of prophetic messages (all the different rapture interpretations, when the world will end, etc.), I can rely on the Holy Spirit myself to guide me when reading scripture in general, without the fear of becoming heretical in my thought.

 

[Jimmy_B]

I apologize for getting on a personal level with you in my first post. I shouldn’t have done that. I’m not Protestant, so I can’t really give that side of it.

I really just wanted to kind of be “devil’s advocate” here. catholics, myself included, always make the claim that protestants pick and choose one or two verses to stand on. In this particular argument over personal interpretation, we do exactly what we claim the protestants do. Every catholic throws up those 2 verses from 2 Peter to defend our stance as to why you can’t interpret personally, but we will rip a protestant to shreds for using just one or two verses.

Those verses from 2 Peter pertain to prophetic writings only though. The Church doesn’t give an outright “you have to believe this” about every verse in the bible and many are left to personal interpretation and belief. One being a belief in evolution as long as you believe God created man. Another would be the world being created in 7 days, or thousands of years.

So, Scripture pertaining to prophetic events can only have one valid interpretation, and my “personal interpretation” on those verses from 2 Peter is that while I can’t attempt to pull something that isn’t there out of prophetic messages (all the different rapture interpretations, when the world will end, etc.), I can rely on the Holy Spirit myself to guide me when reading scripture in general, without the fear of becoming heretical in my thought.

Thank you jesusluv, no problem and thank you for your post and although, I don’t agree completely, you have made some valid points here.

I work on my “kinder-gentler” side every so often…but it is definitely a work in progress. Please forgive me for being so direct at times but it’s in my nature. I hope that you can appreciate that we all have a different personality and different ways of communicating.

God Bless You!

 

[inJESUS]

The number of opposing views does not negate the fact that only one truth exists, and scripture is clear with respect to who will hear the truth, and understand it.

thank you…now i get your position. But do you believe it is ok if you, or i, did not get the one truth?because you said my view is consistent with the idea that God wants us to know the truth then linked it to the fact that even the apostles did not get everything…yet the apostles agreed on everything they taught and they preached together. It is true that the church does not have all the answers but how can i say that the church teaches wrong things since 2000 years ago? how can i trust God anymore when He put His trust on humans without supporting them with the Holy Spirit? you know, some say Jesus is an angel, others say He is a mere human, others said He is not a real human ecc…so, if i were to apply your view, how will i know who is saying the truth?

 

[Jimmy_B]

Neither did the apostles graduate from preacher school.

In fact, after three years of private tutoring by God, they still didn’t get it.

But at the appointed time of the promise of the giving of the Spirit, they understood.

The same is true of the least of the saints.

Hello sandusky,

Who are the, “least of the saints”?

Peace

 

[sandusky]

Hello sandusky,

Who are the, “least of the saints”?

Peace

I’d like an answer to the question I asked you earlier: what method have you used to determine that what you believe is the truth?

 

[Jimmy_B]

I’d like an answer to the question I asked you earlier: what method have you used to determine that what you believe is the truth?

Hello sandusky,

There isn’t enough room here for me to post everything I’ve seen, felt, read, heard and experienced as a Catholic, which has caused me to know, without any doubt, that the Catholic Church represents the fullness of Christian truth and the Full Deposit of Faith…. but that doesn’t keep me from trying…one post at a time.

However, you can start by reading my last two thousand posts or so, for part of my response to your question here.

I am a Roman Catholic, so I don’t “enjoy” the luxury of being able to sum-up anything Catholic, using a couple of verses or a few sentences, as some of my non-Catholic friends here, do…sorry.

Now, I’d like you to answer these two questions:

1. What method have you used to determine that the Catholic Church is not the One True Church?

And

1. What are the “least of the saints”?

Peace

 

[embertx3]

---

They’re correct as there is no prohibition against private interpretation.

Moreover, there are members of the RC in the Philippines who attend the church regularly, and who observe all obligatory feast days, and around Easter time they nail themselves to crosses—an interesting interpretation of take up your cross and follow me; wouldn’t you say?

B]I would say it is a celebration not an interpretation not that I agree.****

Personal interpretation is a good thing; how else would the people of God know who’s teaching the truth?

]So can you explain how these schizophrenic, Davidians and Jim Jones interpretation of the bible is a good thing?****

 

[embertx3]

They’re correct as there is no prohibition against private interpretation.

For that matter, what method have you employed to determine what is the truth, if not private interpretation? :ehh:

I tried personal interpretation and went in circles until it led me back to the Catholic Church.

 

[DaveBj]

This thread is a perfect demonstration of what brought me into the Catholic Church. Ten people read the same verse and come up with 15 interpretations. As I was considering that, I came to the conclusion that if an inerrant Bible was to be an infallible guide, there would have to be an infallible interpreter. Since the Catholic Church (and some out-in-left-field, personality-led Protestant sects/cults) are the only ones that claim to be infallible interpreters of Scripture, it followed that the claims of the Catholic Church deserved careful scrutiny. I started scrutinizing, and voila–here I am.

DaveBj

 

[Jimmy_B]

Catechism of the Catholic Church

**85 **“The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ.” This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.

**112 **1. Be especially attentive “to the content and unity of the whole Scripture”. Different as the books which compose it may be, Scripture is a unity by reason of the unity of God’s plan, of which Christ Jesus is the center and heart, open since his Passover.

The phrase “heart of Christ” can refer to Sacred Scripture, which makes known his heart, closed before the Passion, as the Scripture was obscure. But the Scripture has been opened since the Passion; since those who from then on have understood it, consider and discern in what way the prophecies must be interpreted.

**113 **2. Read the Scripture within “the living Tradition of the whole Church”. According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church’s heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God’s Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (". . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church").

 

[sandusky]

embertx3:

I would say it is a celebration not an interpretation not that I agree.

You say it’s a celebration; interesting. What Spirit, would you say, is leading that celebration?

embertx3:

So can you explain how these schizophrenic, Davidians and Jim Jones interpretation of the bible is a good thing?

What would you have me explain?

embertx3:

I tried personal interpretation…it led me back to the Catholic Church.

If private interpretation is good for you, why isn’t it good for anyone else?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I don’t think very many people even read the whole Bible. The first time I did it, some of it was very hard to understand, so I found some study guides to make it easier. As you read more and more of it it makes more sense, and you start to understand the ideas and the history and the prophets, and the fulfilment of the prophesies in Jesus.

Now I when I re-read it, I love it and don’t find it difficult to understand at all. Some of it is a little disturbing, but it’s an amazing book of wisdom too. I don’t think people need to have someone interpret it for them, but if you have a stumbling block, then it is good to have experts help you out. The main thing is to READ the bible in the first place!!

 

[Jimmy_B]

I don’t think very many people even read the whole Bible. The first time I did it, some of it was very hard to understand, so I found some study guides to make it easier. As you read more and more of it it makes more sense, and you start to understand the ideas and the history and the prophets, and the fulfilment of the prophesies in Jesus.

Now I when I re-read it, I love it and don’t find it difficult to understand at all. Some of it is a little disturbing, but it’s an amazing book of wisdom too. I don’t think people need to have someone interpret it for them, but if you have a stumbling block, then it is good to have experts help you out. The main thing is to READ the bible in the first place!!

Hello CHRISTINE77,

Excellent post, I just wanted to add that it wouldn’t hurt to listen to the Bible, read aloud as well. As you know, the Bible is read aloud at every Catholic Mass and then the readings are explained in the Homily.

Additionally, I have the NAB Bible on CD and listen to it at home. When I listen to entire books at one sitting, I pick-up things that I have missed when reading the Bible.

Read the Bible and listen to Bible read to you, in Mass and on CD, that is my suggestion.

Peace

 

[Jimmy_B]

How in the world do many Protestants (in general) believe that they are following Christ’s instructions, base on Sola scriptura (Bible alone) and how can they believe that they are “Saved” by Sola fida (by Faith Alone), when they don’t have Holy Tradition and the Church to help guide them and help them to understand such things? How can anyone possibly understand Christianity today if they reject the Christianity of yesterday?

The only way to know what’s going on, is to have -

1. Holy Scripture (the Bible)
2. The Church (the Magisterium and the Pope)
3. And Holy Tradition.

All three are important for a true understanding of Christianity.

Additionally, by having bad or flawed beliefs, like “personal interpretation”, which really messes things up and leads to all sorts of crazy beliefs, where every other non-Catholic Christian and Protestant has a different set of opinions, nobody knows what is meant by - Follow Christ.

More over, beliefs like, “Once Saved Always Saved” (OSAS), which equal a belief in ‘Predestination”, or a belief in Saved by Faith Alone and not by Faith, Grace and Works, is harmful, because they are both anti-Biblical and therefore, anti-Christian…

I do not understand why anyone would, by their own choosing, be Christian and not Catholic.

The only two explanations that I can come up with, is that they either “don’t know any better”; or, because of their own behavior, they have created a situation for themselves which would make it difficult to become a practicing Catholic.

I would like for someone here to explain to me how, “Bible alone” and “personal interpretation” of the Bible… is a good thing, when we all know that it has lead to much division and confusion.

I would like to hear the “official” non-Catholic, Protestant and/or “former Catholic” response to this, if there is one, my guess is that there are many different Protestant “twists” on this subject.

Is anyone here afraid of being guilty of the sin of apostasy or heresy?

 

[n2thelight]

Jimmy B

The only way to know what’s going on, is to have -

1. Holy Scripture (the Bible)
2. The Church (the Magisterium and the Pope)
3. And Holy Tradition.

Why do I need the Pope?

Why do I need Holy Tradition,and who decides what Holy tradition is exactly?

Can you give examples of Holy traditions

 

[Jimmy_B]

Why do I need the Pope?

Why do I need Holy Tradition, and who decides what Holy scripture is exactly?

Can you give examples of Holy traditions

**Q.**Why do I need the Pope?

A. Central leadership… to prevent “mob-rule and divisions in Catholicism… Stability…One Church and One Belief…Infallibility…Un-broken chain, all the way to Saint Peter and to Jesus…Holy Spirit and Authority, passed done to today, going all the way back to Jesus… The Bible was approved by Catholic Popes. Finally, Jesus thought it was a good idea……

Q. Why do I need Holy Tradition, and who decides what Holy Scripture is exactly?

A. Because it connect us to the past and puts Christianity and the Bible into their proper context,…Because it is written in the Bible and because Jesus told us to hold fast to our traditions. Because traditions help us to understand Christianity and the Bible and to experience and express Christianity in thee way that God intended. .

**Q. **Can you give examples of Holy Traditions?

A. The Holy Sacraments; like, Baptism and Marriage, Holy Matrimony?

Now I have some questios for you;

1. 
   *]Why not have a Pope?
   *]Why don’t you need Holy Traditions, and did you know that the Bible came to us from the Catholic Church…First the Church and then the Bible, in that order?
   *]Who do you believe should interpret Holy Scripture?