I would like to see Catholics' input

[Pag_Hingowa]

A CAF member earlier posted a link to Fr. Barron here.
Look what he says in his comments on Religious Drifters -
youtube.com/watch?v=9YyOGz3XQ-w&feature=related

Esp. at 3.33 he criticizes the idea of choosing a religion; that choosing a religion is about one’s ego finally being in command.

And then he talks about how in the Bible, it is God who does the choosing, God summons certain people. He says that “the voice of God is sovereign over our choices” and quotes Jesus - “It is not you who have chosen Me, it is I who have chosen you.” He notes that this is the difference between biblical religion and the cultural religion of today.

If God is the one who chooses people, then why do theists proselytize?

Why do theists angrily hold it against people if they don’t join their particular religion?

Why do theists present the whole situation as a matter of the individual having to choose the right religion somehow?

The argument could be made that proselytizing is conducive merely to “the cultural religion of today” - but it does not invoke a biblical religion.

I would like to see Catholics’ (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[Heuchler]

Yes I agree with Fr. Barron. We have the wrong mentality when it comes to religion. Many people just find something interesting in the religion that they like, or they like the feel of the church. Most don’t take the time to actually truly delve deep and figure out which religion is the church that God himself has established. You can’t say you truly looked into it if you were a baptist for 3 years then became a presbyterian for a decade and then converted to buddhism. You can’t say they took their religion seriously at least in the beginning. They didn’t look deep enough. So, unfortunately, we don’t look to where God is calling the world. We don’t try and find the true church when we drift from church to church every 5 years.
Yet, our job is to convert others to the truth, to where God is calling the world. Unfortunately, because of the reformation, the truth is harder to find. That doesn’t mean we stop trying to lead others to the truth. That doesn’t mean God isn’t calling the world to the truth. Father Barron was just criticizing the fact that we make it our decision and what we like instead of where God is calling the whole world and what is the truth.

 

[bren19]

I am a cradle Catholic. That is to say, I was baptized at age 3 mths and have known the Catholic faith all my life. I have never not known Jesus Christ, but I have turned my back on Him for about 20 yrs. We are ALL called by God but some of us refuse that calling and turn our back permanently to the call. It is called “free will” and it’s what turned Lucifer into Satan. We have a CHOICE as to what we are going to do with this God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. In the Holy Bible, He says “I am God, there is no other.” Whether we “choose” to believe this, is a matter of our own choice…

How we live our faith and the depth to which we want to go with it, is also our own choice. Some people like to be spoon-fed and others like to be their own “god”. Again, it’s all a matter of choice.

If people would only READ and educate themselves,ask lots and lots of questions. They would come to realize that Jesus truly is the way, the truth and the life.

God Bless!

 

[WoundedIcon]

A CAF member earlier posted a link to Fr. Barron here.
Look what he says in his comments on Religious Drifters -
youtube.com/watch?v=9YyOGz3XQ-w&feature=related

Esp. at 3.33 he criticizes the idea of choosing a religion; that choosing a religion is about one’s ego finally being in command.

And then he talks about how in the Bible, it is God who does the choosing, God summons certain people. He says that “the voice of God is sovereign over our choices” and quotes Jesus - “It is not you who have chosen Me, it is I who have chosen you.” He notes that this is the difference between biblical religion and the cultural religion of today.

If God is the one who chooses people, then why do theists proselytize?

Why do theists angrily hold it against people if they don’t join their particular religion?

Why do theists present the whole situation as a matter of the individual having to choose the right religion somehow?

The argument could be made that proselytizing is conducive merely to “the cultural religion of today” - but it does not invoke a biblical religion.

I would like to see Catholics’ (name removed by moderator)ut.

You might want to look into the Thomist and Molinist concepts of providence and predestination. Basically, God does elect who gets saved or not. How and why are what Thomists and Molinists debate about, although mostly the how. When it comes to the why there are two positions, one where God has his own reasons for saving certain individuals that are not based in foreseen merits, and another where it is.

My position is Molinist, I believe that God saw all the possible worlds and actualized one of them therefore having complete control over what does happen while not necessarily MAKING it happen. The saved, in this view, are those who God saw would not resist to damnation, and the damned are those who he saw would resist. So the saved are (0), the damned are (-10) and in order to make it to (+10) God’s grace must cause it. Because, you see, contrary to popular belief no one really “chooses” God - His saving grace always precedes the movement of their will. Now, God also mixes together other peoples’ choices, the individuals’ free wills, circumstances, his grace, etc. to cause them to be saved. So God wants us to proselytize, and it’s still their fault if they sin and reject him, but we really haven’t much credit to take for ACCEPTING Him.

Head spinning yet? I’m not even sure if I got it right…

 

[fred_conty]

A CAF member earlier posted a link to Fr. Barron here.
Look what he says in his comments on Religious Drifters -
youtube.com/watch?v=9YyOGz3XQ-w&feature=related

Esp. at 3.33 he criticizes the idea of choosing a religion; that choosing a religion is about one’s ego finally being in command.

And then he talks about how in the Bible, it is God who does the choosing, God summons certain people. He says that “the voice of God is sovereign over our choices” and quotes Jesus - “It is not you who have chosen Me, it is I who have chosen you.” He notes that this is the difference between biblical religion and the cultural religion of today.

If God is the one who chooses people, then why do theists proselytize?

Why do theists angrily hold it against people if they don’t join their particular religion?

Why do theists present the whole situation as a matter of the individual having to choose the right religion somehow?

The argument could be made that proselytizing is conducive merely to “the cultural religion of today” - but it does not invoke a biblical religion.

I would like to see Catholics’ (name removed by moderator)ut.

Good, better, best.
Holds for jobs.
Holds for houses.
Holds for cars.
Holds for food.
Not hold for religion?

 

[Cryptic1]

God calls all people to Himself. Once you are born into this world, God will, at some point, come knocking at your door. But it is still up to you whether or not to open the door. That is free will in a nutshell. God is involved in our lives whether we know it or not, whether we like it or not. Through His mercy and grace, He reveals Himself to us through His creation, through other people and eventually through HIS church.

The problem really is with the church and not with God. Like the sacraments in the Catholic church (an outward sign that tells us God’s grace is present), religion was made for man as an outward sign of His relationship or covenant with God. Today, religion seems to be BIGGER THAN GOD. There is more concern or dialogue over one’s religious affiliation than over one’s belief in the one true God.

In scripture, Jesus drove home this message repeatedly, “I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME.” I don’t want to simplify religion, but I believe that if Jesus is present in your church (in the Eucharist for Catholics, in the bible for Christians, eg.) and IF YOU BELIEVE HE IS MESSIAH AND LORD OVER YOUR LIFE, then you are on the path that leads to salvation.

Christians who proselytize are only following Jesus’ command to “go out and preach the gospel to the ends of the earth.” They are the sheep that hear Jesus’ voice (“I know my sheep and mine know me”) and follow accordingly.

You have to believe that God is always calling you, whether to religion or away from the pull of the world. From the moment you’re born until the moment you take your last breath, God will keep on calling until you answer Him–so great is His love. He will reach out to you—through people, events, books, music, etc. GOD NEVER GIVES UP ON US, IT IS WE WHO HAVE GIVEN UP ON HIM.

When you hear God calling you to a particular religion, know that He is just calling you TO HIMSELF. You have to believe that He loves you so much that He is willing to risk losing you in order for you to find Him.

God Rocks

 

[Pag_Hingowa]

Yet, our job is to convert others to the truth, to where God is calling the world. Unfortunately, because of the reformation, the truth is harder to find.

Is it ethical/moral to proclaim a supposition as truth and fact?

 

[Heuchler]

Well you can at least say that with the reformation there grew a lot of new denominations all preaching something different. So, the pure truth, whether its islam, lutheran, or Catholicism, becomes harder to find because there are more choices.

If you meant the first part as the supposition about our job to convert the world, well Christ told us to when he said “Go forth and make disciples of all nations” So, we have a divine calling to back up our converting nature

Now, if you are saying that the Catholic Church as the truth is the supposition, then that becomes a little harder. You have all the biblical backings to go to say that. And even if I couldn’t convince you (even though your profile says Catholic ), I believe that it is the truth. And if it is the truth, it is my duty to help lead others to the truth because their lives may hinge on it. Besides Father Barron in this video was more concentrated on the fact that people aren’t taking religion seriously and just change around from one to the other without really looking into it and finding which one is the truth.

 

[fhansen]

If God is the one who chooses people, then why do theists proselytize?

Because God also chooses to use other people in our salvation.
"How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?" Rom 10:14

Why do theists angrily hold it against people if they don’t join their particular religion?

They shouldn’t angrily hold anything against anyone for not joining their religion; the Church teaches that we must all be true to our consciences. But it is nonetheless Gods’ will that* all* come to Him.
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance" 2 Pet 3:9

Why do theists present the whole situation as a matter of the individual having to choose the right religion somehow?

Catholicism teaches that we must choose God. To that end, there are true gospels and false gospels, as scripture tells us as well.