ICEL permissions

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Tagetes

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I am working on a fiction novel and intend to include excerpts from certain prayers/Missal/Catechism. In each case it is pivotal for character and/or plot development. Normally, an author is not in charge for this sort of legal issues, but I am going to self-publish.

How do I contact ICEL? I know their website address, I’ve been there. But what to mention in my request letter? Is it possible that they deny me permission to use the texts? If yes, on what grounds may they do it? Perhaps, someone also knows how royalties are handled in case of self-publishing? I’m not based in the US or any other English speaking country, for that matter.

P.S. Will it make any difference, if eventually I decide to publish my book non-commercially? Do I still owe ICEL, if I myself gain nothing? Of course, there will be a reference in the footnotes for every single cited piece.

Also, if I posted it to the wrong section, please, excuse me and feel free to move.
 
It’s also important to remember that ICEL does not hold all the copyrights to the things you mention. The English translation of the Catechism used in the US is copyrighted by the USCCB. This is a link to the requirements to use extracts from the Catechism, (The Catechism of the Catholic Church: Revised statement of principles and guidelines for the use of the text). The document is almost 20 years old so you would need to see if there have been changes in that time.

Since the Catechism itself includes a number of excerpts from other copyrighted material (Biblical passages, Canon law, documents of the Second Vatican council, et cetera) you may need to secure the rights to include those portions from the respective copyright holders. I am not a lawyer, but I do not think permission to use copyrighted material includes transferal of 3rd party copyright permission. So if there is part of the Catechism that includes an excerpt of canon law you might need permission from both the USCCB and the Canon Law Society of America. Also be careful that Bible passages are from the Revised Standard Version of the Bible, not from the New American Bible, so the copyrights is held by the National Council of Churches of Christ (permissions page here).

Since you don’t have a publisher or literary agent, spend some time researching self publishing and fair use. Don’t just take for granted that you have the permission. When in doubt contact the copyright holder and potentially any 3rd party rights holder listed in the work.
 
ProVobis said:
icelweb.org/copyright.htm
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Thank you very much, I too am capable of using search engines. I had a feeling that I got it straight in my original post: “I know their website address, I’ve been there.” Here I was hoping to get in contact with people with an actual experience in the field. Because this is the largest Catholic discussion platform, and I could nourish a hope that Catholic publishers and/or Catholic authors may frequent it, aren’t I right?
Usige said:
Since you don’t have a publisher or literary agent, spend some time researching self publishing and fair use. Don’t just take for granted that you have the permission.
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:confused:
I don’t, and this is exactly why I am trying to do my best to legally obtain it.

You know, the assumption that I may underestimate the importance of making the whole enterprise right and just is very hurtful. Even if you didn’t mean to sound condescending. The time I spend to study the legal aspects surmounts the time I devote to actual writing. Had I overlooked this matter, my book would have been long ready. But this is something I can’t afford to do.
Usige said:
It’s also important to remember that ICEL does not hold all the copyrights to the things you mention.
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This is also something I have already researched by myself. Years ago. ICEL does hold copyright to the text I am going to need, I made sure to find this out before bothering to ask. I would like to know what factors can impact their approval or refusal, and what can I possibly do to secure the former.
 
Tagetes said:
:confused:
I don’t, and this is exactly why I am trying to do my best to legally obtain it.

You know, the assumption that I may underestimate the importance of making the whole enterprise right and just is very hurtful. Even if you didn’t mean to sound condescending. The time I spend to study the legal aspects surmounts the time I devote to actual writing. Had I overlooked this matter, my book would have been long ready. But this is something I can’t afford to do.

This is also something I have already researched by myself. Years ago. ICEL does hold copyright to the text I am going to need, I made sure to find this out before bothering to ask. I would like to know what factors can impact their approval or refusal, and what can I possibly do to secure the former.
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I was only trying to point out that you (or anyone else) need to be careful to obtain all copyrights and not assume that included works are automatically licensed. Not everyone realizes that and nothing in your post implied your awareness of that fact. I was not trying to imply anything about your diligence in doing the right thing. My apologies that I was also trying to make sure that others that stumble upon the thread realize that copyrights can be very challenging.

As you find my attempts to help as hurtful and condescending I will bow out and not waste my own time looking for resources for you. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.
 
Usige said:
As you find my attempts to help as hurtful and condescending I will bow out and not waste my own time looking for resources for you. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.
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Thank you for kind wishes. 🙂 I appreciate your assistance and readiness to go the extra mile, but it was never my intention to request anyone to look for resources for me. I sincerely apologize, if any part of the original post misled you to imply otherwise. The resource hunt is something I can and prefer to undertake on my own.

I will stay tuned to hear from people, who have had firsthand experience with querying ICEL for permissions.
 
In all reality, if edwest2 couldn’t help you on this, I doubt anyone else on these forums will be able to, either.
 
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