I'd like Catholicism more if it weren't for the Catholics

[Annc]

Oops. Sorry, hit submit before I said anything.

I agree that it would be great if parishes could be more welcoming. We are military as well and it is VERY hard to be the new girl all the time. Some try but I haven’t been anywhere yet that has succeeded with welcome and reverent worship. In some cases, the parish and pastor have to choose priorities and the sacraments and faith formation are at the top and there is not much left over for what we might call “niceties”. Your soul is the most important so sometimes it seems as if it doesn’t matter if we “feel” welcome. You are welcome by virtue of your baptism. I have tried to not get to worried about the welcome thing but it does hurt at times. And I am looking for ways for us to do better. If we can make it easier then we should.

We are currently in a parish that considers itself “welcoming” and models this after the protestant churches. They have sacrificed reverence in the Mass and respect for the Blessed Sacrament in an effort to reach their goal. They talk a good game but are not really welcoming but are rather hostile to anyone different. This is a southern VA area that is a mix or rural and suburban natives, military and transplants from the northeast. Military is at the bottom of the social ladder. I am from the northeast so I have another strike against me.

As far as a women’s group, this parish does have some wonderful peace and justice programs. They have been lacking in the faith formation for all ages but are making slow progress thanks to new parishioners with a more orthodox background. Among those are a group of women that have started a women’s ministry. We started with a “women’s tea” format to get women together to share faith and get to know each other. It has been very succesful and we are working on the meals idea. It takes time to get people to see the need and be willing to help. We are now talking with the Pastoral Associate to start a weekday bible study. It has taken years and a lot of prayer to get to this point. We made the most progress after keeping a Holy Hour for a couple of hours a week.

If you feel moved to start something, pray and let the Spirit guide. HE wants good things for your parish and will show the way. Don’t lose heart.

God bless.

 

[mroy_sw1]

I guess I didn’t make my post clear as to what Iam really upset about and that is catholics who call themselves catholic and act inan entirely different manner. They are called cafeteria catholics,they choose what they want to believe andcritisize the catholic church unmercifully.Why don’t they leave if they don’t like it/?

 

[DL82]

I guess I didn’t make my post clear as to what Iam really upset about and that is catholics who call themselves catholic and act inan entirely different manner. They are called cafeteria catholics,they choose what they want to believe andcritisize the catholic church unmercifully.Why don’t they leave if they don’t like it/?

I used to think that way, but I’ve started to understand it a bit better recently, and be more merciful and less of a Jansenist (I’m not accusing you of being a Jansenist, but I know I was at risk of becoming one myself).

Our Faith is the faith of the Church it is also the faith of Jesus Christ, which makes sense because the Church is His body. Unlike protestants, our Faith is not just what we can get our own heads around, it is something that is built on Christ, and upheld by all the Church in heaven, whose faith is perfect, as well as the Church on earth, whose faith is at different levels of imperfection.

Saying “why don’t they just leave” is basically doing protestant churches’ recruiting for them. They DON’T leave because they have Faith - like the father in Mark’s gospel who cried out to Jesus “I do believe, Lord, help my unbelief!” these people cling to their imperfect understanding of the Catholic faith, because they know, on some subconscious spiritual level, that it is true. They may not even really want this faith, but it’s the faith of Christ and it’s been given to them irrevocably by Christ in His sacraments of baptism and confirmation. They can’t escape that sense that it’s true. I’ve even met people who never go to mass, but who send their kids to Catholic school because they want their children to have the chance to know the faith even though they don’t personally have an understanding of their own faith. What is such a gesture but the very essence of faith - the hope of things unseen.

As someone who has had an overwhelming religious experience of the Real Presence of Christ, and who owes most of my faith to such an experience, I feel like I can apply the words of the Risen Christ to St Thomas to myself “You have believed because you have seen, blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed.” Pray and give thanks for our brothers and sisters who cannot see the whole Truth so clearly as ourselves, but who still, through the blessing of God, have a share in the Faith.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

I’m talking about this is a COMMUNITY, and what do I see? I see the back pews filled, and the front ones empty. I see people sitting so far apart, they can’t even shake hands in peace. If I went to a family meal, and everyone was sitting in different rooms, I can certainly say, it would not be a family I would want to be a part of.

I’m talking about people don’t even sing along with the hymns. I can’t carry a tune worth squat, but I sing. Why am I the only one?

I’m talking about people are mumbling the responses and creed. Speak up! Say it with joy and conviction!

I’m talking about people are walking in like someone just ran over their dog and are leaving with the same expression when they leave. Doesn’t ‘may the Lord be with you’ actually MEAN something?!?!

So, I ask again, where is the christian joy that Catholics should be exuding? I feel it, but singing all by my lonesome gets old.

I don’t think anyone should be chastised for sitting in the back. I do and I get every bit as much out of Mass as those who are in the front. Where you place yourself at Mass doesn’t matter. Isn’t Jesus everywhere there?

I am also glad that I am not the only one who can’t carry a tune and yet likes to “sing along.” I feel Jesus knows my heart is in the right place even though my pitch isn’t.

At least you mention people mumbling responses. I have seen more than often people who just don’t bother to even try. But, I feel that is their business if they don’t want to actually participate in the joy of the Mass. Their loss.

 

[i_have_no_names]

Did anyone really read what I wrote?
Is anyone looking to help me, or just make snarky comments?

I’m not talking about hooting and hollering. I’m not talking about mass needs to be more ‘entertaining’. Goodness gracious.

I’m talking about this is a COMMUNITY, and what do I see? I see the back pews filled, and the front ones empty. I see people sitting so far apart, they can’t even shake hands in peace. If I went to a family meal, and everyone was sitting in different rooms, I can certainly say, it would not be a family I would want to be a part of.

I’m talking about people don’t even sing along with the hymns. I can’t carry a tune worth squat, but I sing. Why am I the only one?

I’m talking about people are mumbling the responses and creed. Speak up! Say it with joy and conviction!

I’m talking about people are walking in like someone just ran over their dog and are leaving with the same expression when they leave. Doesn’t ‘may the Lord be with you’ actually MEAN something?!?!

So, I ask again, where is the christian joy that Catholics should be exuding? I feel it, but singing all by my lonesome gets old.

You are right, and I agree with you.

My sister and I had a good number of conversations on this topic a few years back, because I was fed up with all the “old people” at Mass and the total lack of enthusiasm as well as community. I’d been to my friend’s Baptist youth group, and upon seeing so many youth so excited about Jesus, I decided I wanted to go church there.
Fortunately, my sister was able to convince me not to

Basically, we Catholics need to be reminded of why we go to Mass. Yes, it is a weekly obligation. But what are we getting out of it if we go, and act like zombies for an hour - sitting, kneeling, standing, and mumbling at the right times - just to say we went?

Some of our fellow Catholics seem to have fallen into a habit of going to Mass without thinking about what the Mass really is, and just need to be woken up. How can we wake them, though? I think that the best thing we can do is to stay awake, and frequently consider why we go to Mass, and then show others, through our actions, that we know why we’re there.
On that note, I once read something in another thread that I liked so much I kept it. It was as follows, posted by celticcrusader:
“How many people in a church have to be on fire before the church catches fire? All it takes is one match to start a fire!!!”
…In other words… keep singing

(My :twocents: )

 

[samcarter14]

Yeah, but after Mass, outside of worship, why not be more welcoming, especially to newcomers?

I don’t know. Except that you can’t always tell when somebody is a newcomer looking to join the parish; they may be visiting from out of town and attending to fulfill their obligation. They may simply be attending because they missed their own parish’s scheduled Mass. There is also the sheer size of many Catholic parishes, and the fact that people may have children to look after as they try to get their coats on, or they may have family plans that they need to get to.

There is also the fear of being seen as pushy. Some people (like my DH!) are put off by what he sees as overly friendly people; he is as wary as a wild deer when it comes to social situations.

My point is that the “friendliness” of the other parishioners should not be the selling point of a parish. In general, we’ve been warmly welcomed at most new parishes we’ve attended. But as I said, even if there had been no coffee hour or nice lady to invite us down to the basement afterwards, we would still be attending our church. because it feeds us spiritually.

 

[Cat]

I don’t know. Except that you can’t always tell when somebody is a newcomer looking to join the parish; they may be visiting from out of town and attending to fulfill their obligation. They may simply be attending because they missed their own parish’s scheduled Mass. There is also the sheer size of many Catholic parishes, and the fact that people may have children to look after as they try to get their coats on, or they may have family plans that they need to get to.

There is also the fear of being seen as pushy. Some people (like my DH!) are put off by what he sees as overly friendly people; he is as wary as a wild deer when it comes to social situations.

My point is that the “friendliness” of the other parishioners should not be the selling point of a parish. In general, we’ve been warmly welcomed at most new parishes we’ve attended. But as I said, even if there had been no coffee hour or nice lady to invite us down to the basement afterwards, we would still be attending our church. because it feeds us spiritually.

Your post made me realize something that I hope I can get across and that some of you will find enlightening.

I was raised evangelical Protestant and spent over 40 years in evangelical Protestant churches.

It is safe to say that I had no other friends outside of my church.

As you know, the majority of Americans drink alcohol, but the people in my church did not, and condemned any drinking as “sinful.” (Let’s not get into the Biblical basis for that–there are plenty of other threads about alcohol use.)

We also didn’t dance, and many in our church didn’t go to movies or listen to certain kinds of music. And cards were considered “the devil’s picturebook.”

So that essentially eliminated a huge number of people and activities. We stuck to church people.

It may sound horrible to those of you who were raised without these restrictions, but it wasn’t. We had so much fun socializing with each other at church and out of church. If I could remain Catholic but go back to that kind of lifestyle, I would do it in an instant. I miss having friends.

NOW I am Catholic. And I have discovered that historically, Catholics maintain their friendship outside of Mass, and often enjoy many social activities with many different people who aren’t necessarily even Christians. They come to Church to pray and receive the Sacraments, NOT to make and nurture friendships. THAT’S reserved for outside of Mass.

This is very, very difficult for me and I would venture to say for some other former evangelical Protestants. We are not used to it. We don’t know how to go to bars and dances and card parties and for some Protestants, shows and movies. We don’t “party.” We don’t have a “posse.” We don’t even have a group to go to a Super Bowl party with–we used to have Super Bowl parties in our church fellowship halls and serve soda and homemade cookies as the treats, and sometimes even blank out the liquor ads so our kids wouldn’t see them.

We’re used to sticking with our own kind–Christians. And when you, our fellow Christians, won’t say “Hi,” to us at church, we literally don’t know what to do. That’s how we’ve always made friends. And now you’re telling us, “Hey, lady, take it outside the church!”

I’m not saying that the entire Catholic church should change to accomodate us. But I at least hope that those of you who eschew saying “Hi” to people and shaking hands in the parking lot will remember that for many of us who are evangelical Protestant converts, YOU are our only prospects for friends. If you are not willing to reach out to us, we probably will have very few friends. And that’s dangerous–I think that many people probably grow weary of being alone all the time, and end up heading back to the Protestant church just to have someone to go out to McDonalds with after church.

 

[Writer]

Your post made me realize something that I hope I can get across and that some of you will find enlightening.

I was raised evangelical Protestant and spent over 40 years in evangelical Protestant churches.

It is safe to say that I had no other friends outside of my church.

As you know, the majority of Americans drink alcohol, but the people in my church did not, and condemned any drinking as “sinful.” (Let’s not get into the Biblical basis for that–there are plenty of other threads about alcohol use.)

We also didn’t dance, and many in our church didn’t go to movies or listen to certain kinds of music. And cards were considered “the devil’s picturebook.”

So that essentially eliminated a huge number of people and activities. We stuck to church people.

It may sound horrible to those of you who were raised without these restrictions, but it wasn’t. We had so much fun socializing with each other at church and out of church. If I could remain Catholic but go back to that kind of lifestyle, I would do it in an instant. I miss having friends.

NOW I am Catholic. And I have discovered that historically, Catholics maintain their friendship outside of Mass, and often enjoy many social activities with many different people who aren’t necessarily even Christians. They come to Church to pray and receive the Sacraments, NOT to make and nurture friendships. THAT’S reserved for outside of Mass.

This is very, very difficult for me and I would venture to say for some other former evangelical Protestants. We are not used to it. We don’t know how to go to bars and dances and card parties and for some Protestants, shows and movies. We don’t “party.” We don’t have a “posse.” We don’t even have a group to go to a Super Bowl party with–we used to have Super Bowl parties in our church fellowship halls and serve soda and homemade cookies as the treats, and sometimes even blank out the liquor ads so our kids wouldn’t see them.

We’re used to sticking with our own kind–Christians. And when you, our fellow Christians, won’t say “Hi,” to us at church, we literally don’t know what to do. That’s how we’ve always made friends. And now you’re telling us, “Hey, lady, take it outside the church!”

I’m not saying that the entire Catholic church should change to accomodate us. But I at least hope that those of you who eschew saying “Hi” to people and shaking hands in the parking lot will remember that for many of us who are evangelical Protestant converts, YOU are our only prospects for friends. If you are not willing to reach out to us, we probably will have very few friends. And that’s dangerous–I think that many people probably grow weary of being alone all the time, and end up heading back to the Protestant church just to have someone to go out to McDonalds with after church.

Cool post. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. A few years ago, I suggested to the Coming Home Network that they consider promoting the idea of an Easter dinner for those who find themselves with no place to go after joining the Catholic Church. While the idea never caught on there, it’s still being talked about at our parish. Catholics often seem to have no idea what is involved in Crossing the Tiber. It’s essentialy starting over in many respects. We’re not asking for anything special, but it’s healthy to have an understanding of why (former Protestants perhaps especially) we are puzzled by the attitude of some of our Catholic brothers and sisters. They don’t seem to realize the treasure they have in the Mass.

 

[LilyM]

Your post made me realize something that I hope I can get across and that some of you will find enlightening.

I was raised evangelical Protestant and spent over 40 years in evangelical Protestant churches.

It is safe to say that I had no other friends outside of my church.

As you know, the majority of Americans drink alcohol, but the people in my church did not, and condemned any drinking as “sinful.” (Let’s not get into the Biblical basis for that–there are plenty of other threads about alcohol use.)

We also didn’t dance, and many in our church didn’t go to movies or listen to certain kinds of music. And cards were considered “the devil’s picturebook.”

So that essentially eliminated a huge number of people and activities. We stuck to church people.

It may sound horrible to those of you who were raised without these restrictions, but it wasn’t. We had so much fun socializing with each other at church and out of church. If I could remain Catholic but go back to that kind of lifestyle, I would do it in an instant. I miss having friends.

NOW I am Catholic. And I have discovered that historically, Catholics maintain their friendship outside of Mass, and often enjoy many social activities with many different people who aren’t necessarily even Christians. They come to Church to pray and receive the Sacraments, NOT to make and nurture friendships. THAT’S reserved for outside of Mass.

This is very, very difficult for me and I would venture to say for some other former evangelical Protestants. We are not used to it. We don’t know how to go to bars and dances and card parties and for some Protestants, shows and movies. We don’t “party.” We don’t have a “posse.” We don’t even have a group to go to a Super Bowl party with–we used to have Super Bowl parties in our church fellowship halls and serve soda and homemade cookies as the treats, and sometimes even blank out the liquor ads so our kids wouldn’t see them.

We’re used to sticking with our own kind–Christians. And when you, our fellow Christians, won’t say “Hi,” to us at church, we literally don’t know what to do. That’s how we’ve always made friends. And now you’re telling us, “Hey, lady, take it outside the church!”

I’m not saying that the entire Catholic church should change to accomodate us. But I at least hope that those of you who eschew saying “Hi” to people and shaking hands in the parking lot will remember that for many of us who are evangelical Protestant converts, YOU are our only prospects for friends. If you are not willing to reach out to us, we probably will have very few friends. And that’s dangerous–I think that many people probably grow weary of being alone all the time, and end up heading back to the Protestant church just to have someone to go out to McDonalds with after church.

Well, I certainly don’t ‘party’ or have a ‘posse’ either. And I suspect most people don’t. What I DO have is:

• Friends I’ve made through work (paid or volunteering).
• Friends I went through school or university with and with whom I’ve kept in touch.
• ‘Family’ friends (those I know through family members and/or just grew up with).
• Friends I’ve met through sharing a common interest (ie - interested in music? join a local amateur musical theatre group, choir or orchestra. Interested in sports? Join a sporting club. Interested in food? take a cooking course … and strike up friendships with people there).

My interest in my faith does count here - one of my bestest buds is a staunch Baptist and we bounce ideas off each other all the time, even though we don’t always agree.

• Friends I’ve met through these other friends.

Are you really saying you’ve never in your life taken advantage of these sort of non-church-related opportunities to meet people? That none of them are open to you now? Or that EVERY one of the friends you made through these means has abandoned you since you became Catholic?

I agree, it is difficult for Catholics - and I’d imagine just about anyone else - to understand. Not that I’m dismissing it at all, please don’t think that.

 

[Cat]

Well, I certainly don’t ‘party’ or have a ‘posse’ either. And I suspect most people don’t. What I DO have is:

• Friends I’ve made through work (paid or volunteering).
• Friends I went through school or university with and with whom I’ve kept in touch.
• ‘Family’ friends (those I know through family members and/or just grew up with).
• Friends I’ve met through sharing a common interest (ie - interested in music? join a local amateur musical theatre group, choir or orchestra. Interested in sports? Join a sporting club. Interested in food? take a cooking course … and strike up friendships with people there).

My interest in my faith does count here - one of my bestest buds is a staunch Baptist and we bounce ideas off each other all the time, even though we don’t always agree.

• Friends I’ve met through these other friends.

Are you really saying you’ve never in your life taken advantage of these sort of non-church-related opportunities to meet people? That none of them are open to you now? Or that EVERY one of the friends you made through these means has abandoned you since you became Catholic?

I agree, it is difficult for Catholics - and I’d imagine just about anyone else - to understand. Not that I’m dismissing it at all, please don’t think that.

Yes, LilyM, that’s really what I’m saying.

Yes, ALL of the friends that I had as an evangelical have abandoned me and my husband. You see, we are now in an idolatrous CULT, and they don’t want us around them or their children. We are poison. We have fallen away from true Christianity. If they DO associate with us, it is to win us BACK to true Christianity.

Work? Both my husband and I have discovered over the years that it is best to avoid “friend-making” at work, and just stick to working. Interesting, isn’t it, that many Catholics seem to feel that way about Mass.

School? I made one friend in college–she was schizophrenic, and I was the only one who associated with her. I hated college not only because of the studying and pressure, but because of the drinking, partying, dancing, drugs, promiscuity, materialism etc.

Family friends? My family was evangelical Protestant. The only friends they had were church friends.

Yes, my husband and I have friends at the skating rink, and that’s who we spend non-church “friend time” with.

And yes, I belong to a music club, the oldest continuously-running music club in the U.S., and I volunteer and I enjoy being with many of the musicians. BUT…these people drink and party and do all the things that I am uncomfortable with. I see them at club functions and concerts, and that’s about it.

LilyM and others, I know I just sound like I’m whining and snobby and stand-offish… I’m sorry, but I’m only trying to get across HOW people are in the evangelical Protestant churches.

We had plenty of fun among ourselves. But we didn’t associate with people outside the church doors much. John Fischer, a Protestant musician and writer, calls this “fortress mentality.” and condemns it. He’s right to condemn it, but honestly, when it’s what you’ve done all your life, it’s awfully hard to change. Think of the hard time that many of the traditionalist Catholics have had switching to non-Latin Masses, and they’ve had over 40 years to get used to it. I’ve had four years to get used to Catholic socializing and I still don’t get it.

Last weekend, my husband and I actually went to a NIGHTCLUB in Chicago to hear Taylor Hicks (we both love him). At one point, he was singing a song, and I leaned to my husband and whispered some philosophical comment about the song, and realized, “THIS is why I don’t have friends. People didn’t come to this bar to talk philosophy. They came to drink, dance, and listen to music.”

My husband and I did one dance–we’ve been taking ballroom dancing lessons–a MAJOR conflict for me! I have been struggling with my feelings of “sinful!” and “worldly” throughout the classes, and I still refuse to do any groups lessons. Instead, I am willing to pay $100 a lesson for private lessons with an instructor. I am THAT socially backwards, thanks to my evangelical upbringing.

Not all evangelicals are like this. Of course there are those who converted to evangelical Protestantism from Catholicism, and they have plenty of friends! And from what we are seeing, the evangelical Protestant churches are changing–we’ve actually seen people from these churches DRINKING ALCOHOL. So perhaps evangelical Protestants will eventually be more like Catholics and have a greater circle of friends outside of the church. (I actually attended classes in evangelical churches on “How To Make Friends Outside of Your Church.” For most of us, the classes didn’t work. We just didn’t feel comfortable with people outside our church.)

And again, I’m NOT saying that Catholic churches should all change and be super friendly and non-drinking and all the rest (although I personally would certainly like that!). I’m just trying to give you all a feeling for what some of us have come from, so that you’ll understand WHY we crave a little love IN the Church building, not out of it. We miss it. It’s what we were used to. We don’t TRUST those who are outside of the church. It’s hard for us to break the though patterns of 50 years or more.

Do some of you begin to understand? Does a friendly wave or “hi” after Mass really seem so irreverent now that you’ve read this? Don’t you see, you could be helping hold onto a soul in the Catholic Church? The epistle from James says that this is a good thing.

 

[Frosty]

Do some of you begin to understand? Does a friendly wave or “hi” after Mass really seem so irreverent now that you’ve read this? Don’t you see, you could be helping hold onto a soul in the Catholic Church? The epistle from James says that this is a good thing.

While I cannot relate on a personal level to your experiences, yes Cat, I do understand what whay you are trying to say. The notion that some people have that there is no need for any social interaction after Mass has finished [and I do not mean sitting in the pews or standing in the aisles, chatting and laughing but outside the main body of the church: whether in the narthex, street, parking lot, whatever] because one is there only to worship and give thanks to God, not interact with any of their fellow parishoners, has always baffled me.
One of the themes that I see in this forum is how poorly catechized most Catholics are today. I don’t altogether disagree with this idea. Perhaps there are some here who do not know that immediately after instituting the Holy Eucharist and giving the disciples His own Body and Blood in Holy Communion, Christ gave His apostles a new commandment, that they should love one another.

" A new commandment I give you, that you love one another. By this will all men know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another"
John 13: 34-35

I still remember one of our parish priests talking about this during religion classes way back in elementary school. He explained to us that the Eucharist and love of one another are not unrelated. In fact, the effect of receiving our Lord in Communion should be to bring on an increase in our love for our fellowman. He went further to say that we should always ask ourselves if our concern for the needs of our neighbours and our willingness to serve them had increased with each reception of Communion. If the answer is “No” then he said that we must be creating some obstacle to the grace of the sacrament in our souls.
It doesn’t take much of an effort to say “Hello” or give a friendly smile to an unfamiliar face. If we can’t do that, we really do need to do some soul searching. IMO.

 

[LilyM]

While I cannot relate on a personal level to your experiences, yes Cat, I do understand what whay you are trying to say. The notion that some people have that there is no need for any social interaction after Mass has finished [and I do not mean sitting in the pews or standing in the aisles, chatting and laughing but outside the main body of the church: whether in the narthex, street, parking lot, whatever] because one is there only to worship and give thanks to God, not interact with any of their fellow parishoners, has always baffled me.
One of the themes that I see in this forum is how poorly catechized most Catholics are today. I don’t altogether disagree with this idea. Perhaps there are some here who do not know that immediately after instituting the Holy Eucharist and giving the disciples His own Body and Blood in Holy Communion, Christ gave His apostles a new commandment, that they should love one another.

" A new commandment I give you, that you love one another. By this will all men know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another"
John 13: 34-35

I still remember one of our parish priests talking about this during religion classes way back in elementary school. He explained to us that the Eucharist and love of one another are not unrelated. In fact, the effect of receiving our Lord in Communion should be to bring on an increase in our love for our fellowman. He went further to say that we should always ask ourselves if our concern for the needs of our neighbours and our willingness to serve them had increased with each reception of Communion. If the answer is “No” then he said that we must be creating some obstacle to the grace of the sacrament in our souls.
It doesn’t take much of an effort to say “Hello” or give a friendly smile to an unfamiliar face. If we can’t do that, we really do need to do some soul searching. IMO.

I don’t think the vast majority of us have any objections at all to a smile or a simple hello, even during Mass. It’s the idle conversation that usually accompanies it that is the problem. Which, as you say, should be reserved for outside the main body of the Church, before or after Mass, and most all of us probably DO do this ourselves.

I would point out that there’s a significant difference between Christian charity (not-quite-properly translated as ‘love’) and friendship as well. Christ told us the kinds of things that constitute Christian charity - feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and so on. As well as the corporal acts of mercy - advising or counselling, or simply praying for the living or dead (which we do at Mass). So someone who isn’t readily given to smiles and ‘hellos’ to strangers can still most definitely be pleasing God by being ‘loving’ (charitable) in a Christian sense.

You can be ‘friendly’, after all, by taking someone off to a seedy strip joint or what have you, but that’s hardly the sort of ‘love’ Christ envisions!

Neither is the sort of friendship that is carried on at the expense of one paying full attention to worship at Mass. It is, after all, only one hour or so out of our entire week that we are called upon to give our undivided attention to worship of God - and if we can’t be friendly during the other 167 (give or take a little) then that one hour is most unlikely to make a real difference.

 

[Annc]

This thread has taken an interesting turn. I don’t go to Mass to make friends. It is very nice to meet and get to know people in the parish. That has happened by my getting involved in as many activities as possible. We do things as a family and I have things that involve just me. That is the best way to meet people at a Catholic parish. There is a better chance to meet or at least say hello to people at Daily Mass. People aren’t in a hurry and the older folks have been around and have developed a lot of charity.

Someone complained on this thread about “old people” and if they literally meant senior citizens then they are missing a great opportunity to meet some wonderful people. They are the kindest, most charitable people.

To the converts who are struggling, God brought you this far, he will take you the rest of the way. Keep praying. I can’t promise that you will have the same kind of friends that you did in your protestant church (then again, they are lacking a little charity aren’t they?) but if you follow God’s will then that is the best you can do. Limiting yourself to those who think just like you do is dangerous in that you can become fearful of others and then uncharitable to those who are different. That said, I believe strongly in having friends that support and share my faith but I also have protestant friends that can respect my faith and I respect theirs.

Remember, Jesus told us that we would be rejected for our faith. He told us to love one another but he never said anyone would love me back. I know that if we all love one another then someone will love you back but reality is that we fall short of the ideal so reality is that we can be lonely as heck no matter where we are.

Try Peace and Justice activities and/or Bible study. It doesn’t happen overnight.

And, again, please do not judge others by where they sit, how they look “happy or not happy”, and whether they are participating in a manner you feel is fitting (i.e. in what I would call an extroverted manner). Most cradle Catholics do not and probably will never satisfy you in this regard and it means nothing in terms of their faith and participation. IT IS THE INTERIOR DISPOSITION THAT IS MOST IMPORTANT, after that is properly disposed we should have exterior postures, gestures, etc. that reflect that. Many cradle Catholics are more reserved than some would like and that is fine.

It is also possible that while we talk about community a lot, a spiritual journey is really a solo trip. We can have companions but it is between me and Jesus.

Regarding the analogy of “sharing a meal and being in separate rooms”. The Mass is primarily an act of worship with a sacrifice. The meal aspect is just a part of that and not the most important part.

God bless you all.

 

[i_have_no_names]

Someone complained on this thread about “old people” and if they literally meant senior citizens then they are missing a great opportunity to meet some wonderful people. They are the kindest, most charitable people.

Did you mean me?

When I said that, I was simply relating some of the comments I used to make in my discussions with my sister about why I didn’t like our parish. Those were a few years back, and a lot has happened since then. I do realize now that the senior citizens at my church are nice people, and I’ve even had some short conversations with a few after Mass. There’s one lady who I often find myself waiting with just inside the door after Mass - her for her friends who drive her home, and me for my parents to hurry up.

So, no, I did not mean to complain about “old people”. I was just stating that I used to, among other things. (And in fact, when I used to complain about there being a lot of “old people” at my church, I was really complaining about the lack of young people.) There are still many senior citizens in my parish, and not very many youth, but it doesn’t bother me anymore. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Extempore]

Hi Cat,

I appreciate your post. I grew up a Catholic/Protestant (my parents were Catholic but they sent me to Evangelical Protestant school, activities, etc) so all my friends were basically Protestant because, quite frankly they were more conservative than the Catholic kids who viewed me as being somewhat socially backwards.

The youth group at our Novus Ordo Catholic Church was a nightmare for me, as I had little or no knowledge of pop culture or any of the things that kids my age were in to. I didn’t dress right, didn’t speak right, didn’t engage in the right activities. My biggest thrill was being in the local Orchestra and I had a passion for classical music (not so popular with the Catholic-school kids).

On the other hand, my Evangelical friends were much as I was (or perhaps, I was much as they were due to the influence growing up). We were passionate about Classic Books, Bible games on the Nintendo, Christian radio theater, Orchestra, and old movies (hardly anyone had a Television for anything other than this purpose).

So it was very hard when we grew up and the inevitable rift formed as a result of going separate ways (my embracing the Catholic faith and my friends becoming more entrenched in Evangelical Protestantism). When I began to attend the TLM in college, I was similarly disappointed by the elitism that surrounded it. There was an unspoken rule that the TLM was only for the “Higher-educated” Catholics and was somehow synonymous with cigar smoking, Chesterton and fluent Latin. This had me very disillusioned for some time until I came to realize that these people only made up a small portion of traditionalists. For the most part, the rest compromised a very wonderful group of people who engaged in a variety of activities both in and out of Church.

Today, my Church is quite active in a number of ways. On Sundays there is an adult Catechism class that follows each Mass and is EXTREMELY helpful in learning those things about the faith that were omitted in my cursory CCD classes as a child. The congregation is very kind and welcoming and not intimidating (to them, the TLM has always been a part of their life, not just a novelty or something they do to impress others). I have been extremely thankful for this. (And yes, the Church is SSPX, but hopefully that will not discount to the more skeptical all the wonderful benefits it has brought).

I encourage the OP to continue searching. I currently live in an area of the world where the general public is very stand-offish and reserved as a whole. This is the culture. It is a rarity to have a stranger greet you, say “thank you” or any sign of friendliness (Catholic or not). I can see how, in these places, closer-knit groups tend to thrive.

 

[jlhargus]

Well, the question is, what would YOU do if Jesus suddenly showed up? Which he does at Mass, only cunningly disguised as bread and wine

JL: I would do as I do at every mass, when he shows up, I would kneel and adore him, oblivious to those around me. I try to focus on whatever is going on in the mass at any particular time. I would hope all present would be doing the same to the best of their ability, so we act as one body worshiping the Lord. When it is time to focus on my neighbor, with the sign of peace I focus on them. I try not to focus on what someone else is or is not doing.

As far as wondering what a Protestant would think, I leave that to the Holy Spirit. If I know there are non-Catholics present I pray for them.

 

[LexKnight]

Reply to the OP:

While you may not have phrased it well (as can be seen from the misunderstanding of some members of this forum) I do understand what you mean.

While we don’t have to be jumping around, shouting and dancing in the pews I do notice a distinct lack of enthusiasm among many members of many congregations. A lot of people look like they would rather be any place but the Mass! The boredom is unmistakeable on their face and you can often tell they only show up to fill their obligation.

This could be for any number of reasons, and I won’t delve into them (for there are many possible reasons and to make one sweeping generalisation would be a mistake). However I think one possible explanation might come from Catholics who have fallen into the habit of just going through the motions. I should know, I was like that for a very long time.

Now when songs come on I sing them like I mean them, and when it comes time for us to say the creed or a prayer together I don’t just shrink back and mumble them under my breath. If I’m going to say them, I might as well say them like I mean it! After all, I’m in a room full of Catholics so who’s going to judge me if I say the Our Father with confidence?

I find doing little things can help change people’s mood. For example, when saying the sign of peace I say it to as many people around me as possible, with a smile on my face and with a warm touch; I sing the songs enthusiastically (obviously without attempting to draw focus to myself ); and when I’m needed as an extraordinary minister of the Eucharist I will always smile as I give someone the Body or Blood (after all, what they are about to do is something amazing - an occasion for joy).

Like I said, we don’t necessarily have to shout and dance and turn the Mass into a party; we just have to act as if we wish to be there and help people realise that they are taking part in something that is beautiful, spectacular and exciting! You wouldn’t believe what kind of difference a simple smile makes when I hand someone the Eucharist. None of the above suggestions are disrespectful or cheapen the experience, but they can all be used to great effect (particularly if there are many people doing them).

 

[Annc]

Did you mean me?

When I said that, I was simply relating some of the comments I used to make in my discussions with my sister about why I didn’t like our parish. Those were a few years back, and a lot has happened since then. I do realize now that the senior citizens at my church are nice people, and I’ve even had some short conversations with a few after Mass. There’s one lady who I often find myself waiting with just inside the door after Mass - her for her friends who drive her home, and me for my parents to hurry up.

So, no, I did not mean to complain about “old people”. I was just stating that I used to, among other things. (And in fact, when I used to complain about there being a lot of “old people” at my church, I was really complaining about the lack of young people.) There are still many senior citizens in my parish, and not very many youth, but it doesn’t bother me anymore. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks. I probably shouldn’t have used the word “complained”. I just wanted to point out that there are people in our parishes that get overlooked and miscategorized.

This thread started with a comment or question about Catholics lacking joy. Are you sure that you (not just the OP) are not mistaking reverence and piety for lack of joy? There is a difference between joy and having fun . And joy can be exhibited or expreienced in different ways. Since you can’t see what is in someone’s heart, saying that they are not joyful is presemptuous.

God bless.

 

[KingAlfred]

“What is GOING ON HERE PEOPLE?!?!”

The services you’ve described are irreverent and distateful. They’re pep rallies more than religious services. The solemnity and dignity of Catholic Mass is the most appropriate form of public worship. Before the authority of God, dancing, hollering, hugging, running around screaming about being ‘saved’ are disrespectful acts. No offense.

 

[LexKnight]

“What is GOING ON HERE PEOPLE?!?!”

The services you’ve described are irreverent and distateful. They’re pep rallies more than religious services. The solemnity and dignity of Catholic Mass is the most appropriate form of public worship. Before the authority of God, dancing, hollering, hugging, running around screaming about being ‘saved’ are disrespectful acts. No offense.

I don’t see anything disrespectful about hugging in any circumstance (unless of course people’s hands are going where they ain’t meant to go =P). The others all have a place and a time, and are not necessarily disrespectful in certain contexts (generally not appropriate in the Mass for example, but maybe at youth rallies).