I'd like Catholicism more if it weren't for the Catholics

  • Thread starter Thread starter yellowbicycle
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
yellowbicycle said:
Um, I AM Catholic. And I LOVE being Catholic. And I want others to LOVE being Catholic too. But I don’t see that at Mass. I see people who are not even interested in being there long enough to stay through the end of it! I see people so eager to be ANYWHERE but at Mass that they RUSH out after communion. As for me? I’ve really got NO place better to be than in the Lord’s house.

So, no, I’m not having a bad day. I’m having a great day. I just wish the other people at Mass were, too. 😦
Click to expand...
I would like to gently point out that a lot of people’s expressions have nothing to do with what they are thinking. Not everybody wears their heart on their sleeve, or their thoughts on their faces. I have often been asked 'Why so serious?" 😛 when in fact I’m not sad or serious; as Ringo Starr said when a journalist asked him if he was said, “No, it’s just me face.” My DH in particular doesn’t splash his emotions all over his face.

Just saying, don’t assume. Or presume.
 
YES … Yellowbike! I do quite agree with YOU!! So many have replied to you negatively. Yes…Mass is a holy, solem event… BUT…one can be and should be joyful and full of God’s love and Spirit!!! Has anyone out there spent a weekend on “God’s Time”…sponsered by the Catholic church called Cum Christo or Cursillo??? If so, then you by all means know what I am referring to as being joyful and full of the love of God to the point that there shouldn’t be any solem sad faces. Afterall, Mass is not only a sacifice BUT it is a celebration too! I say, Catholics…get with it…it can be a turn off to other people…you need a mirror and look into it and really see how we look to others. Not only can your face mean I am being reverant…but can and most times come off as indifferent…like you are only attending Mass becausue of the obligation…not because you want to be here!! Think on it!!!
 
yellowbicycle said:
Did anyone really read what I wrote?
Is anyone looking to help me, or just make snarky comments?

I’m not talking about hooting and hollering. I’m not talking about mass needs to be more ‘entertaining’. Goodness gracious.

I’m talking about this is a COMMUNITY, and what do I see? I see the back pews filled, and the front ones empty. I see people sitting so far apart, they can’t even shake hands in peace. If I went to a family meal, and everyone was sitting in different rooms, I can certainly say, it would not be a family I would want to be a part of.

I’m talking about people don’t even sing along with the hymns. I can’t carry a tune worth squat, but I sing. Why am I the only one?

I’m talking about people are mumbling the responses and creed. Speak up! Say it with joy and conviction!

I’m talking about people are walking in like someone just ran over their dog and are leaving with the same expression when they leave. Doesn’t ‘may the Lord be with you’ actually MEAN something?!?!

So, I ask again, where is the christian joy that Catholics should be exuding? I feel it, but singing all by my lonesome gets old.
Click to expand...
Yellow…I understand perfectly! As a child, I accompanied my mother to her Baptist Church. I found the Baptists bring up the Lord at least 10 times during normal conversation every day of the week. Yes, I noticed the differences right off the bat and I was young about 7 yrs old. (1965) When I went to Mass with my dad, I learned:
  • “be quiet”
  • “no talking”
  • “bow your head”
  • “don’t sing too loudly”
  • “keep the same tone when singing”
  • "memorize the words…“Holy, Holy, Holy, Kyrie Elesion, The Lord be with you, Dearest the Lord”
  • “say it at the same pace as everyone else”
  • “pay attention, when it’s time to kneel, sit, stand”
  • “when the priest raises his arms, you can stand up”
  • “listen for the bells”
  • “when I go up for communion, you and your sister sit still, no talking”
on a side note: I remember learning the Act of Contrition…and the only part I really remember is the “pains of hell”. My children on the other hand learned a different Act of Contrition “just punishments”. 🤷 and there were no “pains of hell” in it.

Now fast forward:
The first time I heard “City of God”…“We are Called”…“Eagles Wings”…I smiled…the lights were on in the Church and you could actually “see” the other people. When I was kid, the lights were very dim. The floors were marble and we had to be careful not make clicking sounds with our MaryJanes.

The Church floor had red carpet. The sign of peace, people smiled at me. When Fr. G said Mass, we shook hands at greeted each other at the beginning AND at the sign of peace. I went to 6 PM Mass on Sundays and wore jeans. I felt “part of”…the Community in celebration. I left renewed, refreshed and 😃

Yes, solemnity, respect…I get it for all of you who like that. Me, I like the way it is now…and when I got married almost 28 yrs ago, Fr. R was the same with Community.
 
Chirpa said:
YES … Yellowbike! I do quite agree with YOU!! So many have replied to you negatively. Yes…Mass is a holy, solem event… BUT…one can be and should be joyful and full of God’s love and Spirit!!! Has anyone out there spent a weekend on “God’s Time”…sponsered by the Catholic church called Cum Christo or Cursillo??? If so, then you by all means know what I am referring to as being joyful and full of the love of God to the point that there shouldn’t be any solem sad faces. Afterall, Mass is not only a sacifice BUT it is a celebration too! I say, Catholics…get with it…it can be a turn off to other people…you need a mirror and look into it and really see how we look to others. Not only can your face mean I am being reverant…but can and most times come off as indifferent…like you are only attending Mass becausue of the obligation…not because you want to be here!! Think on it!!!
Click to expand...
I’ve seen ads for these in the Cum Christo retreats. So, it sounds like you would recommend these, eh? I’ll have to look into them. 🙂
 
I have attended protestant worship services of all sorts of denominations. The people who attend those services look like this:

And at the Catholic services, they look like this:

What is GOING ON HERE PEOPLE?!?!
I want my Protestant friends to at least WITNESS the truth and beauty of the Catholic faith, but how can I do that when the participants at Mass don’t even witness the truth and beauty of it? I don’t blame my protestant brothers and sisters for turning away from the Catholic faith.
Where did you get the idea that a pep rally was spiritual?

I’ve noticed in my experience in evangelical and charismatic/pentecostal churches that there’s a certain amount of imitative learned behavior that people do simply because it’s expected of them.

In any case, I’m concentrating harder on what’s going on at the altar and singing the responses and hymns than on what others are doing–barring babies, of course.
 
Cluny said:
I have attended protestant worship services of all sorts of denominations. The people who attend those services look like this:

And at the Catholic services, they look like this:

What is GOING ON HERE PEOPLE?!?!
I want my Protestant friends to at least WITNESS the truth and beauty of the Catholic faith, but how can I do that when the participants at Mass don’t even witness the truth and beauty of it? I don’t blame my protestant brothers and sisters for turning away from the Catholic faith.
Where did you get the idea that a pep rally was spiritual?

I’ve noticed in my experience in evangelical and charismatic/pentecostal churches that there’s a certain amount of imitative learned behavior that people do simply because it’s expected of them.

In any case, I’m concentrating harder on what’s going on at the altar and singing the responses and hymns than on what others are doing–barring babies, of course.
Click to expand...
Argh! For the tenth time, I’m not looking for a pep rally! I’m looking for joy!
You are concentrating harder on what’s happening rather than singing? Isn’t singing hymns part of what’s going on?
i forgot which saint said it, but he said something like singing praise to the Lord is like praying twice. 🙂 Why wouldn’t you want to be active in that?
 
yellowbicycle said:
Argh! For the tenth time, I’m not looking for a pep rally! I’m looking for joy!
You are concentrating harder on what’s happening rather than singing? Isn’t singing hymns part of what’s going on?
i forgot which saint said it, but he said something like singing praise to the Lord is like praying twice. 🙂 Why wouldn’t you want to be active in that?
Click to expand...
My mother in law does not sing at Mass. She admits to being tone deaf and is very self-conscious of her singing…yet there is NO place she’d rather be than at Mass! She’d go every day if she could (she is going through cancer treatments, which prohibit this).

So who are we to judge somebody’s internal reaction to the Mass based on their outward demeanor? As I stated earlier, not everybody wears their emotions where everyone can see them.

And I would also like to point out that we should be concerned about our OWN experience of the Mass, not others’. To be watching everybody else at Mass, or taking note of others’ behavior after Mass, kind of misses the point, I think.
 
samcarter14 said:
My mother in law does not sing at Mass. She admits to being tone deaf and is very self-conscious of her singing…yet there is NO place she’d rather be than at Mass! She’d go every day if she could (she is going through cancer treatments, which prohibit this).

So who are we to judge somebody’s internal reaction to the Mass based on their outward demeanor? As I stated earlier, not everybody wears their emotions where everyone can see them.

And I would also like to point out that we should be concerned about our OWN experience of the Mass, not others’. To be watching everybody else at Mass, or taking note of others’ behavior after Mass, kind of misses the point, I think.
Click to expand...
Again, I am not talking about individuals, I am talking about the community as a whole.
Have you never been disappointed in the lack of involvement at a parish?
I LOVE my experience at mass. I love it so much I want to bring others, but others don’t see hearts, now do they? All they will see are people sitting as far apart as they can, not even bothering to open their hymnals, and walking out early. And sanitizing their hands before the sign of the peace!! How’s that for christian love? I wish you peace, but first I would like to create a barrier of anti-bacteria! What nonsense! And it’s not just a few people doing it, which you would expect due to illness and what not but EVERYONE does it - or at least I’ve seen it at some parishes) Should I just tell the people that I am bringing that everyone there is really happy, but on the inside? I don’t think they’d buy that.
 
To the OP,

I suggest seeking out a group of people at Mass who you know to be faithful and joy-filled Catholics, and sitting with them. Even having one or two people next to you who you KNOW are excited about the Lord Jesus will make it better for you at Mass.

Again, I reiterate what I said in my original post–we should not look at the outside, but at the heart.

Interestingly, when my husband and I started attending the Catholic Church, we were envious of all the loving and hand-shaking and friendships that seemed to be all around us. After Mass, people would hang around and talk, and we would overhear invitations to go out to eat or come over to the game the next day, etc. So OUR impression of the Catholic Church is that it was a very loving, joyful place.

Perhaps your parish is kind of stuck in a rut. Another suggestion is that YOU start up the “Happy Train.” After Mass (in the lobby, please, or out in the parking lot if it’s warm enough), make it a point to greet several people or families. Say something like, “I’ve been going to this Mass for X years and I’ve never known your names. Could you tell me please? I’m ___ ___, BTW.”

Also, I can assure you that a smile and an enthusiastic rendition of the hymns is contagious. Many times, my husband and I have had people tell us after Mass that they love listening to us sing during Mass. So YOU do it, even if everyone else doesn’t. They will enjoy it.

One more thing–be prepared to be humbled by the Lord. I’m willing to bet CASH that if you try my “greeting strategy,” you will approach someone who looks like a dead cat throughout Mass, and you will learn, to your embarrassment, that they are filled with enthusiastic love for the Lord Jesus and His Church, that the Mass is the highlight of their week, and that they are involved in some heartrending ministry that brings joy and hope to others, and they would LOVE to get you involved in the same ministry!! How much $$ do you want to bet?! 🙂
 
In any case, I’m concentrating harder on what’s going on at the altar and singing the responses and hymns than on what others are doing–barring babies, of course.
Argh! For the tenth time, I’m not looking for a pep rally! I’m looking for joy!
You are concentrating harder on what’s happening rather than singing? Isn’t singing hymns part of what’s going on?
As a matter of fact, at my parish people, including me, sing at the tops of their voices in a very reverbant, acoustically live church. (So live, in fact, a few fuzzy panels had to be put on the wall to cut down the echo.)

Singing the responses with others is part of concentrating on the altar.
 
I am 68 years old, and so I remember when Catholics went into a church before Mass and either sat silently or prayed. If a person said something to another person, he or she spoke with a low volume. That was because evryone was conscious of being in the presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament on the altar but also in respect for the people praying.

Now most people come in and act just as if they are getting ready for a meeting at the local political or social club. People older than I am chat loudly about the weather and everything else.

I don’t believe that I have noticed too many mopey faces. The people I see are enjoying themselves in some sense.

I hope to see a turn around before I die. Bill
 
I think there is plenty of joy in mass, but it is a joy you are supposed to feel yourself in your heart, full of the holy spirit! I have been to a few protestant services and just couldn’t get into it. Mass is a time for quiet prayer and reflection not to jump around and sing and say “hallelujia” or “praise jesus” at really inappropriate times. I enjoy the solemness, I can truly reflect on whats going on at MASS not with the jumping lunatics beside me. I really enjoy being able to sit there and quietly reflect to myself.

that is just my opinion on this matter
 
The flutist James Galway always says he wants no part of happy clappy religions

I basically feel the same way…I don’t go to mass to clap in time with the music and sing trendy songs

We have a beautiul myster unfolding right before our eyes in the Eucharist and that is all I care about
 
yellowbicycle said:
I have attended protestant worship services of all sorts of denominations. The people who attend those services look like this:
😃
:extrahappy:
:clapping:
:grouphug:

And at the Catholic services, they look like this:

:sleep:

What is GOING ON HERE PEOPLE?!?!
Click to expand...
I think two completely different approaches to the worship of God are what’s going on.

If we judge the approach of the Catholic liturgy by the values and standards of Protestant worship service, it will seem wanting. On the other hand, obviously, if we judge Protestant worship services by the standards and values of Catholic liturgy, it is wanting.

The fundamental principle of Catholic liturgy: a sacrificial altar upon which an ordained Priest makes the sacrifice of Calvary present. Demonstrative cheerfulness just doesn’t come into it. In fact, sometimes one wonders why anybody ever does anything but kneel or bow down in overwhelmed silence and stillness.
yellowbicycle said:
I want my Protestant friends to at least WITNESS the truth and beauty of the Catholic faith, but how can I do that when the participants at Mass don’t even witness the truth and beauty of it?
Click to expand...
I have been like a broken record on this forum saying that, ironically, in spite of vernacular and versus populum, huge numbers of NO/OF Catholics are egregiously ignorant of faith. So I can only speak to part of what you’re saying there. :o

There’s magnificent truth and beauty in the sacramental life of Catholicism. But, again, it doesn’t make sense to look for it in whoopin’ and hollerin’ at Mass. And who says that would be good? Where does that principle come from?
yellowbicycle said:
…to one of the Catholic masses in my area, and they saw these mopey sorry faces, they’d have every right to think I was crazy.
Click to expand...
My guess is that those sad guys are thinking about Redemptionis Sacramentus and wondering what to do about liturgical abuses, like clapping, etc. 😉
yellowbicycle said:
I know, I’m probably preaching to the choir here, but what’s a person to do to sort of, I don’t know, INVIGORATE the masses? (get it, masses, masses. Ha! Hmmm…probably using puns won’t invigorate anyone…)
Click to expand...
No, not everyone is in that choir. Again, I don’t know where the idea that “invigoration” is what wanting comes from. Whatever merits Protestant worship services have (no doubt many; a topic for a different thread?), I claim what you’re saying is not a Catholic thing at all.

ASD​

Traditional Latin Mass: Translation and Grammar
 
So, now I’m not even Catholic by your standards?
Great.

Y’know what? Never mind.
 
I think it would be better to pray for other Catholics than criticize them.
 
I don’t think we should criticize yellowbicycle for wanting to “invigorate the masses.” (masses = people)

I think several posters seem to be mistakenly thinking that he wants a Protestant worship service feeling in the Mass. I don’t think that’s what he’s saying at all.

He sees people walking through the motions and questions whether they are engaged or on task with Mass. It is questionable, sometimes, whether the people in attendance at Mass truly know what’s going on or not.

As I have said in my other posts, we can’t judge people by their appearance, facial expressions, body language, etc.

BUT–I think yellowbicycle’s concern is genuine. And my answer to his question about “invigorating the Masses” is catechesis.

When people are taught and actually understand what the Mass is and what’s happening at the altar, and when they internalize it (not just learn it for CCD), then they are filled with joy and awe.

A year or so ago, Scott Hahn was a speaker at our parish. The church was packed–I mean football game-packed–no spaces, standing room only, and the standing space was packed!

The next weekend, I sat in my usual place in Mass (when I don’t play the piano), and before the Mass, an elderly lady that had never seemed particularly engaged in Mass turned to me and said, “Did you HEAR Scott Hahn last weekend. I’m so excited about my Church now. I never knew half the stuff he said. Now I understand!”

She was literally glowing with enthusiasm for the Catholic Church.

I think that the reason my husband and I are quite happy in the Mass is that as Protestant converts who have done a lot of studying, we KNOW what the Mass is and we love it very much.

So if we want to see people on task with Mass–I say, catechize them. Teach them. And watch them wake up.
 
redrosetea said:
I guess you should everyone, piles into the front pews
Click to expand...
At your church everyone piles into the front pews?!?!? WOW!

Almost every Saturday I stand at the back of the Church and watch the folks come in. Every time the last 2 rows in all 4 columns of pews fill up and, by the time we process in, the people who came in after those 2 rows filled up are scattered around the church in such a way that offering the sign of peace becomes difficult. I usually sit in the 3rd or 4th pew from the front and, believe me, nothing blocks my view of the altar. You would think that when at most 50, but most often 35 people gather for Mass they’d fill the first 2 rows of pews rather than the last.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top