I'd like Catholicism more if it weren't for the Catholics

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Saintlucy:
Sorry, something went really wrong there. I was trying to reply to the post which mentioned applause at the end of the Mass. Whatever next! Priest of the years awards?:eek:
 
CradleCath said:
Uh…How many TLM’s have you attended?

I attend one every Sunday, but until a year ago I belonged to a parish that offered only the Novus Ordo.

I’m noticing your emphasis on singing & just wanted to tell you that, the Novus Ordo I used to attend has had very little music period… for the last 5 years. They used to have a choir & sometimes a soloist, but they “restored” a Church that had been wreckovated in the demolition derby that followed Vatican II. The results:
The original choir loft was torn out in the early 70’s.
The choir was moved to the Sanctuary.
The restoration committee put up a partial Communion Rail “for asthetic reasons”. Now, this Communion Rail is not to be used, for COTT is not allowed.
So…we couldn’t have a choir of song leader in the absent choir loft.
We couldn’t have a choir of song leader in the Sanctuary (the “new” Communion Rail was in the way.)

So, the priests there just decided to pretty much forget it. Which was OK. by me, as it was not sacred music. I had not sung or even heard sacred Catholic music for over 40 yrs. until I started attending the TLM. There’s nothing sacred about the music I’ve heard at the Novus Ordo. The tunes, rhythms, and messages are drawn mainly from secular culture. When it isn’t aesthetically repugnant and downright offensive to the Faith, it is utterly forgettable & mundane. Come on…what Catholic can get all excited over “Gift of Finest Wheat” & “On Eagles Wings”.

In the parish that I now attend, with the Tridentine Latin Mass, we are working on the music. . It’s the first & only Latin Mass we’ve had in almost 50 years in this city… Most of our people are young & this is all new to them. But, we are working on it. The following link will take you to the music that surrounds & penetrates the soul during Mass:
latinmassvideos.com/

We certainly aren’t as good as the Benedictines in France, but we’re working on it.

BTW. if you are having trouble finding “happy” Catholics, you might try looking for them at a Latin Mass. However, you might want to realize that this Joy has nothing to do with the “happiness” that you are used to, for happiness depends on happenings. Joy is not the same.

AND, we’re just about the most chatty, friendly group you could want to know…AFTER Mass. We’re having our third pot-luck dinner after next Sunday’s Mass. Can’t wait.
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CradleCath,

Thank you! Finally, someone gets it! I have never attended the TLM but have great respect for the Rite and the movement of Spirit that brings people to it. I may be a TLMer myself one day. You brought out some points that I attempted to put into writing but gave up as my head was hurting from the banging against the wall. :banghead:

As to the stories of the converts and their “Catholic” friends: I am sorry that happened to you. There are unfortunately many “Catholics” who don’t “get it”. The Catholic Church is in a crisis because of the poor catechesis of the last 40 years. These folks are just ignorant of their faith. We have a practice or custom of accepting the baptized as they come to us (the Church, Mass) in shorts, without reverence, etc. because we believe they are better off ignorant in the Church than out of it. We pray for their faith formation and believe that even the ignorant and sinful (all of us) receive grace at least in some measure by coming to Mass. Attending Mass is at least a sign of Faith on some level. Unlike our Protestand brethren, our baptism does not end our journey since we are “still working out our salvation in fear and trembling.” Since we can’t presume or assume that we are “saved” (going to heaven) we still have a lot of work to do…“I am saved, I am working on being saved and I hope to be saved” (from Catholic Answers tract on Salvation). If I believed that I was guaranteed that I was going to heaven no matter what I did for the rest of my life, I would be “happy clappy”, dancing in the aisles too. If I didn’t have a sense of how much our Lord suffered and suffers for us, I would be more lighthearted too.

Lastly, there is a difference between faithful Catholics and the Catholics I described above. You want to differentiate between Catholics who are reverent and those who don’t know their faith and present a bad example. I don’t know how else to phrase that if anyone else can do better, please do.

God Bless.
 
I quite agree that the mass is not an entertainment session but being happy does not have to mean shouting or otherwise but we must remember the words of the Psalmist “make a joyful noise unto the Lord”. I am not saying that we have to literally jump up and down but we can be happy people sharing god’s love with each other since we are sharing one meal. I think we catholics can and should be happier people if only we know what we truly have and what we are celebrating. When we can appreciate the presence of the Lord in the Mass, the joy will automatically be radiated in us and we dont have to pretend to be a happy congregation. Let us be Happy in the Lord!!! 👍 🙂 😉
 
Saintlucy said:
Sorry, something went really wrong there. I was trying to reply to the post which mentioned applause at the end of the Mass. Whatever next! Priest of the years awards?:eek:
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Looks like that weird LiveJournal code to me. 😉
 
CradleCath said:
Uh…How many TLM’s have you attended?

I attend one every Sunday, but until a year ago I belonged to a parish that offered only the Novus Ordo.

I’m noticing your emphasis on singing & just wanted to tell you that, the Novus Ordo I used to attend has had very little music period… for the last 5 years. They used to have a choir & sometimes a soloist, but they “restored” a Church that had been wreckovated in the demolition derby that followed Vatican II. The results:
The original choir loft was torn out in the early 70’s.
The choir was moved to the Sanctuary.
The restoration committee put up a partial Communion Rail “for asthetic reasons”. Now, this Communion Rail is not to be used, for COTT is not allowed.
So…we couldn’t have a choir of song leader in the absent choir loft.
We couldn’t have a choir of song leader in the Sanctuary (the “new” Communion Rail was in the way.)

So, the priests there just decided to pretty much forget it. Which was OK. by me, as it was not sacred music. I had not sung or even heard sacred Catholic music for over 40 yrs. until I started attending the TLM. There’s nothing sacred about the music I’ve heard at the Novus Ordo. The tunes, rhythms, and messages are drawn mainly from secular culture. When it isn’t aesthetically repugnant and downright offensive to the Faith, it is utterly forgettable & mundane. Come on…what Catholic can get all excited over “Gift of Finest Wheat” & “On Eagles Wings”.

In the parish that I now attend, with the Tridentine Latin Mass, we are working on the music. . It’s the first & only Latin Mass we’ve had in almost 50 years in this city… Most of our people are young & this is all new to them. But, we are working on it. The following link will take you to the music that surrounds & penetrates the soul during Mass:
latinmassvideos.com/

We certainly aren’t as good as the Benedictines in France, but we’re working on it.

BTW. if you are having trouble finding “happy” Catholics, you might try looking for them at a Latin Mass. However, you might want to realize that this Joy has nothing to do with the “happiness” that you are used to, for happiness depends on happenings. Joy is not the same.

AND, we’re just about the most chatty, friendly group you could want to know…AFTER Mass. We’re having our third pot-luck dinner after next Sunday’s Mass. Can’t wait.
Click to expand...
I don’t have much experience with TLMs, so my comments are more aimed at Novus Ordo. Good point on the condition of music in the Novus Ordo. I understand that it’s often pretty dismal music. In fact, I’m writing something currently regarding a particularly bad hymn called “Sing a New Church.” I hope you haven’t had the “pleasure” of hearing that one…
 
justinkolo said:
Who else has been annoyed with the applause at the end of Mass, as though it was some sort of concert?.
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🤷 😊
But it was some sort of concert…and be encouraged to applaud lest the entertainers not feel appreciate and not provide their services in the future.
🤷 😊
 
I just got to this thread so pardon me for jumping in if I re-state things already said.

First, I think obviously, it must have been mentioned that we aren’t at Mass to visit with those around us, so concentrating more on what we are doing instead of what others are doing is a good start. I usually go to a TLM so it seems people are more totally focused on the altar. When I do go to NO Masses there is more of the singing, hand shaking focus. I personally prefer my focus on God at Mass than on my fellow worshippers. I think that may have been something that went amiss after Vatican II. There’s more focus on people as a community than on being there to love, serve and worship God. The community aspects are better served in the parish hall, seems to me.
Secondly, I wanted to mention that when we are looking around at other people maybe a little charity is in order. We do not know what trials a person might be going through at that particular time and to give someone the benefit of the doubt is a kindness we might want extended to us some day.
I do know what you mean about the singing, clapping, happy faces at some protestant services because I was there for many years and I can tell you that no amount of singing, clapping and happy faces faces can replace what Catholics have in the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament—this truth is what brought back to the Catholic Church.
 
Soooooo…what is the solution here? When I do the responses, I speak up very clearly, I sing my best and when receiving Our Lord, I do so with humility and love. In other words …show good example and pray that God enters their hearts. 🙂

Also, go to morning mass when possible. The people that are there WANT to be there, not because they have to be, like at Sunday mass.
Prayer is the oxygen of the soul!
 
Writer said:
You’re right with regards to emotions; I think what people have been trying to get at here is something more than an insistence that we all be “happy, smiling people”. Life happens, and sometimes getting to Mass itself can be a real struggle for some of our brothers and sisters. When I try to discuss this issue, it could be described as something more along the lines of living the faith inside and outside of Mass. It’s also possible that my experiences are somewhat unique as I have had interesting opportunities to discuss our spiritual journey with other Catholics as well as to have attended Catholic Churches in other parts of the country. Sometimes, for example, I might not have noticed anything at all, except for the fact that I attended another parish where things were very different. Maybe a few personal examples will shed light on where I, at least, am coming from.

When we joined the Catholic Church, I mentioned it to a friend of mine with whom I had attended Catholic schools with since 4th grade. I expected him to be somewhat happy for the family’s journey, but it was almost the opposite response I received. His first advice to me as a new Catholic (or maybe we were still in RCIA at this time) was that we shouldn’t take everything the Church says as true. He made it clear that he and his wife picked and chose what rules they followed as Catholics. This shouldn’t have been a huge surprise, because, even though he comes from a huge Catholic family, his wife and he made no attempt to hide the fact that they were living together before they were married. The truth of the matter was, however, that it did come as a shock. From reading about Dr. Scott Hahn’s conversion experience, I believe he had a similar lukewarm reception by his Catholic friends. When we’re still soaking wet from crossing the Tiber, you don’t expect your Catholic friends to throw more water on you. Sadly, that experience, more or less, ended our friendship.

Another example is a strange one that I’ve discussed once or twice before on the Forums. A close relative nearly joined the Catholic Church until he had an opportunity to meet with a priest (whom had been a personal friend of his for years). The priest made it clear to him that he did not really think it was important for him to endure all of the trouble of converting. His advice to this relative to serve God as he was–as a Protestant.

The last example that comes to mind is from a year ago, or so, when my wife and I were asked to give a presentation concerning our spiritual journey to a large group of Catholic women in another West Coast city. Imagine our surprise when we were discussing the sin of abortion and birth control (and its demographic effect) to have many of these women roll their eyes and look very uncomfortable. Afterwards, my wife was even confronted by one of the women. It was not a particularly happy situation–especially in terms of a witness to non-Christian family members who came to listen to our presentations.

Like I’ve said before, my personal pet peeve is when the same people leave Mass early. As soon as they have received the holy Eucharist, they are out the door. When I’ve asked the priest about this, he can only shake his head sadly and remark that it’s unfortunate. From leaving early to not singing the music, they seem to be simply going through motions that are empty of meaning to them. If you really believed that the Eucharist in your mouth was the body, soul, and divinity of our savior, how could you race to your car as soon as you’ve left the communion line? In my mind, that’s more than a lack of reverence; it signals that something serious may be missing.

Of course, I don’t worry about these things all the time, but threads like this do spark my interest a bit. There may be many inter-related reasons for behaviors like what we’ve had described here, but it’s a little disheartening when one comes face to face with it. For me personally, I know we are where the Lord wants us to be, and I believe that we’ve contributed some real good with regards to our parish and elsewhere. We have no intention of leaving, but it is sad to witness Catholics who don’t see the treasure we have in the Church and treat it more as cultural or civic obligation to be approached with a heavy heart than the beautiful religious experience it is. After all, verses such as Matthew 6:17 remind us that our outward appearance, demeanor, and attitude are important.

All we can do is to continue to pray for a strengthening and renewal of the Church. It may also be that the coming dark change in the moral direction of this country may wake some of the sleepers up.
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Well said 👍

I very much agree :yup:
 
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