Ideas for explaining the 'visible church' to non-Catholics?

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JonNC said:
If I were to convert to a Baptist Church, would my Trinitarian baptism, performed a month and a day after I was born, be considered a sufficient baptism? Or would I have to be baptized again (re-baptized)?

Jon
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Yes, it’s sufficient. You could choose to do so again, but it would only be symbolic.
 
anodos said:
A public profession of faith is a work, in a sense an “earning” of the baptism.
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So being baptised as a public profession of faith is earning a baptism? I’m having trouble wrapping my head around what you mean. Can you describe this in a different way?
 
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Originally Posted by Calgar
Baptism for us is an ordiance (I’m sure you know this). It is a public profession of faith. How can an infant profess faith?
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And how can a mentally challenged person do a public profession of faith?
 
Calgar said:
So you’re argument seems to be that there must be a church, but I don’t see any evidence that it is the roman catholic church.

The greek orthodox, historically speaking, would seem to have more of a claim then the rc.
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Jesus founded His Church-right? Roman is merely one rite of out of many…it is called the Catholic Church.
 
Calgar said:
So being baptised as a public profession of faith is earning a baptism? I’m having trouble wrapping my head around what you mean. Can you describe this in a different way?
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If my baptism can only be received on the condition that I make a public profession of a particular faith, I’ve “earned” my baptism. I did something.

As a sidenote, belief is itself a work, in obedience to the command of God. Belief is also the gift of God; but I think that the Catholic position would be, that all of our good works are also the gifts of God. It is by the grace of God that we are allowed to work, and by God’s grace (not just by our own effort) our works achieve merit.
 
anodos said:
If my baptism can only be received on the condition that I make a public profession of a particular faith, I’ve “earned” my baptism. I did something.

As a sidenote, belief is itself a work, in obedience to the command of God. Belief is also the gift of God; but I think that the Catholic position would be, that all of our good works are also the gifts of God. It is by the grace of God that we are allowed to work, and by God’s grace (not just by our own effort) our works achieve merit.
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The baptism is the profession of faith.
 
I think we are talking past each other here, or I may just be confused.

Do southern Baptist believe that water baptism is efficacious in the remission of sin, or a symbolic outward expression of an inward change.

I think if this was addressed, we would be able to come together and reason with one another.
 
onemangang said:
I think we are talking past each other here, or I may just be confused.

Do southern Baptist believe that water baptism is efficacious in the remission of sin, or a symbolic outward expression of an inward change.

I think if this was addressed, we would be able to come together and reason with one another.
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The act of being baptised does not remove sin. It is symbolic of the inward change, as you put it.
 
Calgar said:
You mean be baptised? Depends on the person. Are we talking downs or are we talking a vegetative state?
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Show us where in the Bible any distinction is made, or for that matter, where the Bible says there is an age of reason before which everyone is once saved always saved but after which everyone magically loses their salvation unless they profess faith.
 
Cat_Herder said:
Show us where in the Bible any distinction is made, or for that matter, where the Bible says there is an age of reason before which everyone is once saved always saved but after which everyone magically loses their salvation unless they profess faith.
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You show me where there is no distinction.
 
Cat_Herder said:
So then, is marriage just a symbol of the sinful premarital carnal intercourse of the couple? Or is it an outward sign of a spiritual reaity that CHANGES THEIR STANDING BEFORE GOD so that their relations are no longer a sin but a blessing?
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So you assume all couples have sinful premarital carnal intercourse?

So you’re agreeing with me that baptism is a sign of an internal change?
 
Calgar said:
So you assume all couples have sinful premarital carnal intercourse?

So you’re agreeing with me that baptism is a sign of an internal change?
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Marriage is a sacrament that changes the standing before God of the people who celebrate it. And you agree (unless you think fornication is not a sin). Now you tell us why baptism doesn’t do likewise.
 
Calgar said:
I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but southern baptists do practice baptism using the trinitarian formula.
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Why? Why would baptists do something symbolically in the name of Holiness? Isn’t that a bit like symbolic prayer (standing on the street corner to pray so that men see you)? And since it is symbolic, why bother with it all?
 
Calgar said:
Quick question: Is everyone who calls themself a roman catholic a Christian? I think there’s another thread on this topic somewhere else…
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I understand your point but your confusing the issue. NAMB starts with the premise that Catholics lack salvation because baptists believe Catholics lack a personal relationship with Christ. It’s true that not all who call themselves Catholics are Christians - but this is not unique to Catholicism. And I don’t see NAMB targeting Calvinist communities in Northern Germany…
 
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