Ideas on funding college

[DarkLight]

I’ve been looking at going back for a second undergraduate degree, in math education. I don’t particularly want to take out more loans. So I was wondering what ideas people had to get through college without taking on a lot of debt. Realistically, I could work one full-time job and do classes - working 60 hours a week and doing classes might be possible for some people, but I just don’t have the stamina.

 

[pensmama87]

I’d look into scholarship opportunities for “non-traditional” students, which usually means not 18-22.

Do you need to go back for another undergrad? Where I live it’s preferable to get a Masters degree for teaching, and an undergraduate degree in education is not required (or even the subject, though it’s a good idea if they are related.)

Depending on where you go graduate education can open up a lot more in terms of scholarships and stipend opportunities.

 

[DarkLight]

I’d look into scholarship opportunities for “non-traditional” students, which usually means not 18-22.

Do you need to go back for another undergrad? Where I live it’s preferable to get a Masters degree for teaching, and an undergraduate degree in education is not required (or even the subject, though it’s a good idea if they are related.)

Depending on where you go graduate education can open up a lot more in terms of scholarships and stipend opportunities.

The only worry is I don’t have any real sort of formal education in math - and I think they want to see a formal education in the field you want to teach. I can do math pretty well, and I could learn it on my own easily, but I don’t have any sort of formal degree or even more than a couple of formal classes in it.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Talk to HR at your local school district. They’ll be able to advise you much better than we can because they’ll know what the certification requirements and such are in your state, and what they’re looking for in terms of education in a teacher. In my state, for example, they don’t care much what your degree is in: you can get secondary certification after taking a few classes and passing a couple of exams, and that’s all that most districts look for, no need to spend another few years in school. However, states vary widely in requirements–therefore my suggestion to chat with the local district. Also, you might sit down with an education prof at your local university, always bearing in mind, of course, that they may be a bit pushy about getting you into their program.

Depending on what sort of environment you’re willing to teach in, you might look into programs like Teach for America, too, as they’ll pay your student loans while you teach in low-income, underperforming schools. Though that brings PLENTY of its own stresses, of course…

 

[UbiCaritas]

The only worry is I don’t have any real sort of formal education in math - and I think they want to see a formal education in the field you want to teach. I can do math pretty well, and I could learn it on my own easily, but I don’t have any sort of formal degree or even more than a couple of formal classes in it.

Sad thing is, that might not matter.

A friend was an engineer prior to going into math education. She’d done a huge amount of advanced math and physics, that sort of thing, but because she didn’t have a college algebra class (she’d tested out of it by sophomore year of high school…) she had to take it. Never mind that she had As in, say, Calc 2…

Of course, your state may have more common-sense regulations than mine.

 

[DarkLight]

Talk to HR at your local school district. They’ll be able to advise you much better than we can because they’ll know what the certification requirements and such are in your state, and what they’re looking for in terms of education in a teacher. In my state, for example, they don’t care much what your degree is in: you can get secondary certification after taking a few classes and passing a couple of exams, and that’s all that most districts look for, no need to spend another few years in school. However, states vary widely in requirements–therefore my suggestion to chat with the local district. Also, you might sit down with an education prof at your local university, always bearing in mind, of course, that they may be a bit pushy about getting you into their program.

Depending on what sort of environment you’re willing to teach in, you might look into programs like Teach for America, too, as they’ll pay your student loans while you teach in low-income, underperforming schools. Though that brings PLENTY of its own stresses, of course…

I’m not really sure I’m planning on staying in the state I’m currently in. Honestly the idea of being about to pick what state you want to work in is a new one for me, so I’m not sure where I’d want to end up.

 

[Xantippe]

I’d look into scholarship opportunities for “non-traditional” students, which usually means not 18-22.

Do you need to go back for another undergrad? Where I live it’s preferable to get a Masters degree for teaching, and an undergraduate degree in education is not required (or even the subject, though it’s a good idea if they are related.)

Depending on where you go graduate education can open up a lot more in terms of scholarships and stipend opportunities.

Yes.

Also, are you sure that you have the stamina for K-12 life? Can you cope with the severe psychological pressures involved in teaching public school? Your first year or two will be very difficult.

I would also look into Teach for America and that sort of thing.

I just googled “Catholic Teach for America” and found this:

dianeravitch.net/2012/10/19/the-catholic-version-of-tfa/

It’s called Alliance for Catholic Education:

“They are part of a program called the Alliance for Catholic Education, which was created at Notre Dame. They spend a summer at Notre Dame preparing to teach and another summer reviewing what they have learned and sharpening their skills. Notre Dame teaching coaches are available to them during their time on the job.”

Keep researching and don’t do a whole new undergraduate degree. Also, if you have some aptitude for logic, how about throwing in some computer science training? Coding is very hot these days and it could make you a more viable job candidate. Even a little bit could make a very good impression:

hourofcode.com/us

I would also suggest having coffee with somebody that works at a classical school and picking their brains about your options. I think you could be very happy at a classical school, and if you know Latin, you might even have the opportunity to teach it, right alongside math.

Peace Corps is also a good first step into the classroom and an inexpensive opportunity to try out the lifestyle, although the conditions may not be good for you personally. But if you have any facility for language, you might do very well. I’m a returned Peace Corps Volunteer and it opened a lot of doors for me in ESL in the US after I got back.

 

[pensmama87]

Well, what did you major in?

For initial certification I just had to pass the Praxis in the subject area. For acceptance into the program I had to pass that plus have relevant coursework. A few people in my program took one or two courses to fill in the gaps, sometimes concurrently with the graduate courses.

If you obtain certification in one state it might not be honored elsewhere. I know that here, certification is recognized (or at least it was) in every other state except one.

 

[DarkLight]

Well, what did you major in?

For initial certification I just had to pass the Praxis in the subject area. For acceptance into the program I had to pass that plus have relevant coursework. A few people in my program took one or two courses to fill in the gaps, sometimes concurrently with the graduate courses.

If you obtain certification in one state it might not be honored elsewhere. I know that here, certification is recognized (or at least it was) in every other state except one.

I majored in philosophy myself. Finishing up a MA in it. I still love the field, but I’m a bit sick of the attitudes in higher education - it’s so ridiculously status-conscious and high pressure over low stakes. And I want to feel like I’m making more of a difference than I would be at a university (which means I probably also want to be in a public school, not a private school).

For those who aren’t familiar with me, I do fall into the category of non-traditional student. I also have to manage to take care of my own bills while doing school - the rent’s going to have to be paid and all that.

 

[Xantippe]

I majored in philosophy myself. Finishing up a MA in it. I still love the field, but I’m a bit sick of the attitudes in higher education - it’s so ridiculously status-conscious and high pressure over low stakes. And I want to feel like I’m making more of a difference than I would be at a university (which means I probably also want to be in a public school, not a private school).

For those who aren’t familiar with me, I do fall into the category of non-traditional student. I also have to manage to take care of my own bills while doing school - the rent’s going to have to be paid and all that.

Wherever you teach, you’ll be making a difference.

 

[PaulinVA]

I majored in philosophy myself. Finishing up a MA in it. I still love the field, but I’m a bit sick of the attitudes in higher education - it’s so ridiculously status-conscious and high pressure over low stakes. And I want to feel like I’m making more of a difference than I would be at a university (which means I probably also want to be in a public school, not a private school).

For those who aren’t familiar with me, I do fall into the category of non-traditional student. I also have to manage to take care of my own bills while doing school - the rent’s going to have to be paid and all that.

Have you thought about teaching philosophy at the high school level. Thats the kind of thing you find in some larger public systems and in private high schools.

 

[Xantippe]

Have you thought about teaching philosophy at the high school level. Thats the kind of thing you find in some larger public systems and in private high schools.

Yes, come to think of it, that is actually a possibility.

But you’d probably need one or two less boutique-type areas of specialization to make yourself more marketable.

My kids’ school teaches logic starting in 8th grade.

 

[DarkLight]

I’m mostly tired of dealing with the constant elitism and competition. I’d be worried that a lot of the fancier private schools would end up with the same problem.

 

[Xantippe]

I’m mostly tired of dealing with the constant elitism and competition. I’d be worried that a lot of the fancier private schools would end up with the same problem.

Well, there are a lot of fancy pants suburban public schools, too. (My nephew went to a public suburban middle school where some of the kids have sushi delivered to them for lunch.)

I would have a look at the particular school culture before drawing any conclusions.

I think you could be very happy at a private school like the one my kids go to. I do occasionally wish that administration would remember that we’re not ALL surgeons’ families, but overall, the school culture is very pleasant and wholesome.

Unfortunately, there are two basic types of US schools:

–the kind where the parents don’t care/are working too many jobs to know what’s going on/don’t know they ought to care or about what/are not native speakers of English/are high/aren’t around

–the kind where the parents know exactly what they want and are going to make sure they get it

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Not every US school fits into one of those two categories, but it’s a helpful starting assumption.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

As far as costs, remember schools are businesses too and these days there tend to be a lot of open seats. You can negotiate with them, (happens with kids all the time. They call it “the financial aide package”), but in reality it is what the school will discount (in addition to saying what they hope the student will take in loans). Just push them hard (being nice of course) and if they won’t meet your price go up the street to the next one.

 

[1ke]

To teach secondary mathematics, you are going to have to have at least 24 hours of advanced mathematics, probably more.

This would include Calculus I-III and Linear Algebra for starters and then advanced courses from among Differential Equations, Discrete Mathematics, Modern Algebra, Modern Geometry, Number Theory, Numerical Analysis, Complex Variables, Advanced Calculus, Probability and/or Statistics depending on the state.

Logic **might **count as one of your courses, which I presume you have through your philosophy degree.

You will also need education courses or alternative certification to secure the methods portion.

Certainly a prior degree will limit the number of courses you need to have, but it will still be a good number.

If you teach, student loans can be forgiven under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, and certain teaching also qualifies for Teacher Loan Forgiveness.

You can look into the TEACH Grant program to fund your courses. TEACH grants provide up to $4K per year for classes. If you take classes online you can probably get them pretty inexpensively.

As a math major and former high school math teacher myself, I think you are underestimating the rigor of college level math curriculum if you believe you can teach it to yourself.

You might look at a field other than mathematics, one for which you already have the required credits or enough credits to take the exams needed for teaching field certification. You might also look at elementary or middle school certification which may not require a specialized field.

 

[Xantippe]

To teach secondary mathematics, you are going to have to have at least 24 hours of advanced mathematics, probably more.

This would include Calculus I-III and Linear Algebra for starters and then advanced courses from among Differential Equations, Discrete Mathematics, Modern Algebra, Modern Geometry, Number Theory, Numerical Analysis, Complex Variables, Advanced Calculus, Probability and/or Statistics depending on the state.

Logic **might **count as one of your courses, which I presume you have through your philosophy degree.

You will also need education courses or alternative certification to secure the methods portion.

Certainly a prior degree will limit the number of courses you need to have, but it will still be a good number.

If you teach, student loans can be forgiven under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, and certain teaching also qualifies for Teacher Loan Forgiveness.

You can look into the TEACH Grant program to fund your courses. TEACH grants provide up to $4K per year for classes. If you take classes online you can probably get them pretty inexpensively.

As a math major and former high school math teacher myself, I think you are underestimating the rigor of college level math curriculum if you believe you can teach it to yourself.

You might look at a field other than mathematics, one for which you already have the required credits or enough credits to take the exams needed for teaching field certification. You might also look at elementary or middle school certification which may not require a specialized field.

Those are very good points, especially the public service loan forgiveness and the grants.

I agree that high school math may be a bridge too far without good formal qualifications.

 

[DarkLight]

I essentially taught myself graduate level logic, so that’s what I’m basing my self-teaching abilities on. Plus I have access to people who will help.

I’m looking to teach middle school age though, so I may not need as many qualifications.

 

[Xantippe]

I essentially taught myself graduate level logic, so that’s what I’m basing my self-teaching abilities on. Plus I have access to people who will help.

I’m looking to teach middle school age though, so I may not need as many qualifications.

That sounds very good.

 

[HouseArrest]

I essentially taught myself graduate level logic, so that’s what I’m basing my self-teaching abilities on. Plus I have access to people who will help.

I’m looking to teach middle school age though, so I may not need as many qualifications.

Make no mistake about it, the state certification process doesn’t care if you know the math, they want to see the requirements checked off.

The road to certification used to (and may still) be to send in transcripts to the state, with the state returning a list of classes you would need to take to become certified. The next step would be to take that list to several schools and ask how long it would take to get through the courses. Some schools will add classes to your list, some will allow you to take just the ones the state said you needed.

Now if you obtain state certification for Philosophy, which sounds like it would take less credits, you can add math later.

I can almost guarantee you will have to student teach. During that time you will be in a high school full time for a semester.

The alternative is to try for Teach for America, as was suggested before. Some say it is better teacher preparation than state certification through a college. Both will let you teach in a public school when you are finished.

I would definitely apply to a lot of places and compare offers.