It seems the church has a whole needs to change its mindset to help and work with singles. I’ve seen some members here post about some of the good, if not great things their churches do. However, it seems like most of us, that is non-existent. In my archdiocese, church is a building you go to for Mass every weekend and the occasional holy day of obligation, of which there are very few. There are a couple of churches in the area that do an occasional social activity, but they’re definitely not geared toward singles. I’ve gone to a couple of them and every female I spoke to (which I believe was nearly all of them in attendance) was married to a guy who was also in the group.
Ideas: what do young Catholics need right now? {dating and relationships}
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DarkLight
Guest
I think remembering that these are different groups is very important. At 27 I just don’t want to be in the same group as an 18 or 19 year old - they can be perfectly lovely but they usually feel so very young to me. (And an amazing number of guys that age don’t get that a late 20’s woman isn’t interested in a college freshman.)
Personally I think the farther along you get, the less what you need is a single’s ministry per se and the more you need to encourage activities that are inclusive of people in all walks of life. I would absolutely adore a women’s group that wasn’t all about marriage and motherhood but let me get to know other women, married or not. It is very lonely when you’re out of school and finding that there just isn’t the same sort of social interaction.
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Naskor
Guest
I disagree. This is too much inclusion going on right now. What we need is separate and specific single ministries. Singles have different challenges and needs in life and need different kinds of help and aid than non-singles. Plus if we give singles the opportunities to be with other singles that will have better odds of finding a spouse.
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pensmama87
Guest
Do you think that the non-singles could have valuable insights for the singles?
I think DL is on to something. Sure, it’s very useful to have support from and interact with people who have a lot in common with you, but if you get too insular it’s hard to see past the end of your nose. It’s great for there to be to be “mixed” activities. After all, maybe while you serve soup next to a married parishioner, she thinks, “You know, it’s been a long time since my sister Suzie met as kindhearted a guy as Bob here.”
More connections don’t hurt.
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DarkLight
Guest
There’s also of course pragmatic issues of how many people you have in each group. One of my complaints about ministries aimed exclusively at singles is that there’s rarely enough single people in one parish to maintain singles’ ministries for different age groups. Since the biggest group tends to be college age, singles’ ministries often seem to default to to being aimed at that age.
But on a more general note, while there are different needs between married and single people there are also a lot of needs that are the same. I personally would really love a chance to develop some relationships with other women in an environment that is focused neither on pairing people off nor on marriage and motherhood. Sometimes I find I have more in common with them than I do with other single women - especially if most of the other single women are barely out of high school!
But on a more general note, while there are different needs between married and single people there are also a lot of needs that are the same. I personally would really love a chance to develop some relationships with other women in an environment that is focused neither on pairing people off nor on marriage and motherhood. Sometimes I find I have more in common with them than I do with other single women - especially if most of the other single women are barely out of high school!
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Naskor
Guest
OP was asking what young Catholics need. Young Catholics already have the ability to mingle with marrieds, nothing is stopping them.
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DarkLight
Guest
Not necessarily. I’ve been in parishes where everyone leaves after mass without really talking, and all the social stuff goes on at other events - which are pretty thoroughly divided up by your state in life. Or more commonly, the groups were “young adult”, “men’s”, and “women’s”, and the women’s group at least was pretty much all about being a wife and mother. Hardly a good situation for singles and marrieds to mix.
At least in churches with more marrieds than singles in certain age groups, sometimes the marrieds need some encouragement to mingle with the singles and not just leave them for the “singles’s ministry” to deal with.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
You already have the ability to mingle with singles, nothing is stopping you.
Why should the church be in the business of matchmaking anyway? The Catholic Church provides a moral framework in which to live your life. What you do specifically in that framework is your business, and will depend on your own traditions, experiences, preferences, etc. There’s no one “right” way to meet your future spouse, so having the church endorse one method over another as more “holy” would be very contrary to the mission of a global, universal, and very multicultural church.
It’s in the church’s best interest that Catholic singles are able to meet, form relationships and ultimately create Catholic families. Therefore, it should be doing what it can to help that cause. At the churches I attend, for Sunday Mass (or Saturday vigil) it seems they are at most, one third full. I honestly believe some of them will be shutting down in the next 10 years or so just because not enough people attend, especially once the older people start passing off. Of the few people who do attend, probably 70% of those appear to be over the age of 65. Perhaps if the church had done more in the past to further the creation of Catholic families, it would be better off now.You already have the ability to mingle with singles, nothing is stopping you.
Why should the church be in the business of matchmaking anyway? The Catholic Church provides a moral framework in which to live your life. What you do specifically in that framework is your business, and will depend on your own traditions, experiences, preferences, etc. There’s no one “right” way to meet your future spouse, so having the church endorse one method over another as more “holy” would be very contrary to the mission of a global, universal, and very multicultural church.
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Xantippe
Guest
Who is it that you want to do this?
Do you want Father to run singles groups? (That would be weird.)
Should there be a religious order devoted to running singles groups? (That would be weird.)
Do you want young married mothers who can’t go to the bathroom alone or shower without massive scheming to run your singles group for you?
Do you want young fathers who barely get to see their little children to run your singles group for you?
Do you want the older married parents with school-age children who practically live in the minivan, have incredibly complex schedules, and haven’t had a date night this year to run the singles group for you?
Do you want middle aged married people who haven’t dated in 30 years and can barely use Facebook and who think that reruns of 80s sitcoms are quality entertainment to run it for you?
Do you want little old ladies to run your singles group?
I think that there might actually be an argument for parents of young adults to take an interest in running events together (which would actually be a more or less traditional way to do it), but then the question isn’t “Why doesn’t the Church do XYZ” but “Why don’t we do XYZ?”
We are the Church, too.
Ideally, I’d like to see something where the bishops of their dioceses organize something along the lines of a mini national singles conference. Hold them several times a year in various parts of the archdiocese so that at some point during the year, anyone who is interested could have one that is reasonably close. After that, the bishops need to encourage priests to support and promote singles/social events in the parish. It needs to come from the parish pastor and not some small group or something within the parish.
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Xantippe
Guest
That’s an interesting idea to do a diocesan mini-conference, but I suspect that multiple times a year would be overkill and very hard to pull off. Normally, don’t specific conferences get held once a year? And even a yearly conference is a very demanding commitment for the organizers.
From what I’ve heard in previous discussions, it sounds like the diocesan level is probably better for singles events, as individual parishes may have inappropriate demographics. I think it’s probably not fair (and not effective) to expect each and every parish to do singles events when three or four parishes going together could put together much better attendance. I was just googling, and noting that in our town, the large Catholic mothers’ group seems to be based out of a single local parish, rather than there being a number of smaller groups.
I also can’t help but notice how few younger CAFers seem to have met their spouses at their own parish.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
That sounds nice in theory, but logistically, it would be extremely expensive and time-consuming to pull off. And if it wasn’t well attended, or was lopsided in the gender of the attendees, it would be a total disaster. And from the perspective of a woman in my 20’s, if I were looking to meet single men, I would probably look online before I would take off work and pay to attend a conference (that may even require travel) in hopes that the event managed to pull in enough men of high enough quality in my age bracket who I am attracted to to make it worth my time.
I don’t know if many churches have the money or manpower to pull off something like that when it’s really such a gamble in the long run. And if it didn’t have a high success rate and quickly earn reputation for really helping people meet prospective spouses, attendance would drop to very close to 0.
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Naskor
Guest
This really shows the difference between between Protestant and Catholic ministries doesn’t it? In the America Catholic Church we expect those need a ministry to also be the ones to create and run. Every Catholic single groups I ever been to or been exposed to was ran by other singles. They couldn’t figure out for the life of them what they were doing wrong. They knew they were doing something wrong but didn’t know what. It was like a bunch preschoolers trying to teach themselves how to read, with no one in the group knowing how to read.
Protestant ministries in my experience are the opposite, those who don’t need the ministry or those who have gone through the same struggles but figured it out are the ones operating the ministries. Yes I have seen young mothers and fathers serve young singles and adults before.I have seen parents with teenagers serve young adults, one of my best friends mom was one of them. Yes some of them indeed haven’t dated in 30+ years, hell someone of them didn’t date at all! The little old ladies LOVED to play match maker and were active in doing so!
It’s no wonder why Catholics have a singles crisis and Protestants don’t.
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agapewolf
Guest
As a 41 year old engaged woman, I couldn’t disagree with this more.
“inclusion” is not happening. Single folks do NOT need to be "“separated” from married. I have learned and grown so much from different faith groups/studies/movements that has a wide variety of people. And they have too, from having me in there.
While one can’t learn everything about marriage till they live it, they sure can learn a lot by when married people open up and share their struggles…bringing things to light. And interestingly enough, I had objective perspective to offer them. And then married folks are reminded that there are a whole lot of people out there they need to be aware of and involved with, that aren’t just “Cast offs”.
And while singles might have some different needs of kinds of help, that doesn’t mean that married folks can’t give it to them, and vice versa.
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Xantippe
Guest
Why do you think Protestants don’t have a singles crisis? I think I’ve seen just as many complaints from Protestant singles–in fact quite a number pointing fingers at I Kissed Dating Goodbye.
There are lots of dating crises in the US.
sltrib.com/home/2875998-155/mormonisms-dating-dilemma-is-a-guy
In Utah, for instance, there are 150 LDS women for every 100 LDS men.
Likewise, in Orthodox Judaism, they have something called the shidduch (matchmaking) crisis, even though they have actual matchmakers hard at work.
newrepublic.com/article/120918/ultra-orthodox-jews-panicked-over-shidduch-matchmaking-crisis
Also, why are you lumping all Protestant churches together? Protestant churches in the US vary immensely in terms of size and resources.
prodigalthought.net/2011/01/26/the-average-church-size-in-america/
Half of US churches have fewer than 75 members. I have my doubts that those micro-churches have thriving singles ministries unless they are entirely composed of singles. So, let’s correct that–some Protestant churches have thriving singles ministries–others don’t.
And, speaking of singles groups run by singles, why do so many single young people on CAF believe themselves to be experts on finding a spouse? I often note a lack of respect for the opinions of actual experienced married people.
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UbiCaritas
Guest
We have a relatively new archbishop in our diocese. He’s been here for about five years, and has made it pretty clear that his focus is on encouraging vocations and young people in their faith lives.
He has a series of lectures/social opportunities put together for young Catholics, both single and married, in the archdiocese. The series are spread over a few months, and are independent enough from one another that you can pick and choose which you want to attend. At one, the archbishop might give a talk followed by dinner; at another, you might be meeting up with a couple of priests at a pub to have a drink and chat about the faith while hanging out with other young Catholics; that sort of thing. They are free of charge and open to anyone interested.
At the same time, he’s encouraged parishes to put together young peoples’ groups–again, not just singles, but young married couples, too. One near us seems to have several activities per week, varying from ultimate Frisbee games to service projects (building Habitat for Humanity houses, for example) to cookouts. It’s a wonderful way to create a venue for people to meet one another, whether for the purpose of marriage or not, and to build up a community of young Catholics to support one another. I wish more dioceses did something like this!
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Virga
Guest
If you’re focusing on singles dating or discerning marriage, an annual diocesan-level event could work; maybe even 2+ dioceses could work together if the geographic area isn’t huge.
A parish level event or group might not have enough people attend. Plus, not every single person is actively looking to date although there is a wish to bond with other Catholics. A talk on the single life or dating might be better, and you can still meet others that attend the talk.
If a “singles” parish group were to form and be advertised as such… I don’t know. I’m open to the idea of marriage, but I would feel uncomfortable joining a parish group if it gives off the impression that everyone’s goal there is to look for someone to date and discern marriage.
Again about the number of people if it were a single’s only group… If members were to pair up in the group, you’d eventually lose too many people and the group would die off I imagine.
IMO, it’d be better to have a young adult group [both married and single people involved] if you wanted to start something at the parish level.
A parish level event or group might not have enough people attend. Plus, not every single person is actively looking to date although there is a wish to bond with other Catholics. A talk on the single life or dating might be better, and you can still meet others that attend the talk.
If a “singles” parish group were to form and be advertised as such… I don’t know. I’m open to the idea of marriage, but I would feel uncomfortable joining a parish group if it gives off the impression that everyone’s goal there is to look for someone to date and discern marriage.
Again about the number of people if it were a single’s only group… If members were to pair up in the group, you’d eventually lose too many people and the group would die off I imagine.
IMO, it’d be better to have a young adult group [both married and single people involved] if you wanted to start something at the parish level.
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pianistclare
Guest
You’ve hit on it right there.
Where are these single people who want to show up in a small room together and size each other up, while wearing an invisible nametag that says : “I can’t get a date”.
Gross.
Those Diocesan gatherings are much more likely to have people with similar interests find each other.
But nothing beats the advice of married friends.
Ask where/how they met.
Ask them if there’s anything about your personality that could conceivably come on “too strong” “too weak” " too shy" “too dogmatic” “too political” The further and further one gets from the dating scene , the less self-aware people tend to be. All of us can tend to get set in our ways the older we get. This can be a real hindrance to meeting a person for a casual coffee date even.
This is why I tend to dismiss the old “don’t date until you are discerning marriage” model. like young people absolutely cannot remain chaste or can’t keep their hands to themselves otherwise. It misses the youthful time of discovery of various personality types, group dating (like to ball games, bowling, etc.) in favor of waiting too long and then appearing single-minded (you should pardon the pun) in looking fro a spouse RIGHT NOW.
Always a good way to scare off a potential mate.
:twocents:
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Xantippe
Guest
Yes.
- You need actual activities–outings, trips, reading groups and lectures.
There’s a big lecture series at our inner city parish that would also be a nice opportunity to meet people. Places like the Catholic Information Center in DC also sponsor a lot of good stuff.
There are also many college public lectures that will attract interesting people.
- I agree that “where did you meet?” will provide a lot of good leads.
- I like the idea of asking for pointers. I don’t know, not knowing them in person, but I suspect that people who come off as Orthodoxy Warriors may turn off even others that theoretically agree with them. And likewise with politics. 95% of political opinions shared between new acquaintances are some combination of boring/stale/stupid.
- “It misses the youthful time of discovery of various personality types, group dating (like to ball games, bowling, etc.) in favor of waiting too long and then appearing single-minded (you should pardon the pun) in looking fro a spouse RIGHT NOW.”
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