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Norseman82
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Interesting logical gymnastics you employ to go from my stance against “peace at all costs, even if it means compromising you faith” to a “red flag” for hating women.
Ideas: what do young Catholics need right now? {dating and relationships}
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
What guy in his right mind would go out with, much less marry, a woman who described masculinity as stupid, dangerous, untrustworthy, and callous?
If you want to marry someone of the opposite sex, an honest appreciation for the differences between the sexes is a much better starting point than expecting clergy to hook you up.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=986681&page=15
Oh just stop. You said that keeping your mouth shut until the time is right or for a clandestine operation is masculine, and doing it out of laziness, fear, or just being misguided is feminine. Once you were called on it, you ducked out of the thread.
Between your previous statements and the post after post on this thread outlining all the reasons why you are entitled to a woman and others are obligated to bring her to you, it really looks to outsiders as though you have an issue with women. We don’t know you, so we can’t say it with certainty, but that’s what it looks like. If you want to clarify your views, go for it, I’m really open to being corrected. But every woman on this thread has had the unfortunate experience of dealing with men who have the attitudes that you exhibit here. And those men do not feel good to be around. If you do in fact harbor resentment towards women or femininity, that could be at least part of what’s keeping you single.
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Xantippe
Guest
Yes.
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Sarcelle
Guest
I was not referring to the peace at all cost quote. I was referring to the qualifying statement which followed.
Refer to your post #220 of the Catholicism - Too Feminized? thread, your exact words
Or if you prefer, call it cowardly, lazy, or a cowardly, lazy, or a misguided/incorrect view of Christianity.
Don’t tell me that statement above was meant as a compliment.
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opera
Guest
Yes, exactly. Prayers always help just in and of themselves. In this instance, prayers at Mass would also be encouraging to single Catholics and would raise awareness among married Catholics that a problem exists concerning the low marriage rate among the lay faithful these days.
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EasterJoy
Guest
When it comes to romance, a great many of us are not “in our right mind.” We easily start to think the rules of common sense do not apply to our own charmed life, and sometimes we don’t stop until it is far too late.
“I warned your Majesties, I warned you,” said Sallowpad the Raven. “Easily in but not easily out, as the lobster said in the lobster pot!”
Those who “won’t be taken in” are sometimes too wary to find a partner. Handing your life and your heart and your future over is a risky business!!
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EasterJoy
Guest
Was there anyone we said you could not ask to pray for you? No, we said that finding you a wife is not your pastor’s job. If you go to your pastor and say you need a wife and he decides to play matchmaker, well, more power to you. You have no room to expect it, but if you say the worst he can say is “do I look crazy?” then I have no quarrel with that. It is not for me to tell you what problems you can and cannot bring to your pastor. I’m only sticking up for his perogative to tell you that you’re on your own, if that is what he does.
If that nice sister had said, “oh, no, I always pray you’ll be a monk,” after all, what could you say to that?
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AnneElizabeth
Guest
Note- the following I wrote thinking you were going to be speaking to people ages 16 to 20 and maybe a bit older… I’m not sure if this is the age group you are targeting, so keep that in mind.Hello! I am looking for some ideas and advice in regard to what young adult Catholics need right now (specifically involving singleness, dating, and relationships).
I want to create a resource for young people:
a. Revealing the teachings of the church and WHY we believe what we believe
b. Provide tangible steps to deal with loneliness during times of singleness
c. To inspire young people, leading them to Christ by showing the ultimate freedom is found in following God’s commands
Does anyone have any advice regarding this topic?
Any thoughts on what you wish could be available to young adult Catholics?
Any and all thoughts/ideas/(name removed by moderator)ut will be valued and appreciated. Thank you
Right off the top of my head, I’d say that the young people need to know the meaning and value of sacredness. There is hardly any thing in this culture right now that depicts sacredness, let along upholds it or values upholding it. They don’t understand it. They know it, because their hearts long for it, but they don’t see it modeled, and if they do see anything in this day and age, its always something that mocks sacredness, tears it down, makes it seem like pure silliness.
If they understand what is sacred, then and only then will they have the fertile ground to grow in what they are taught and carry out what they learn regarding this topic.
I’m sorry I don’t have any helps other than that… but I’d say with anything in your course that you are going to teach, make sure they understand that.
“What is sacred?” <---- Maybe start with asking them that question. What does that term mean to them? Then embellish and enrich what they have shared. Also discuss how the sacred can be protected and what steps are needed in order that this separation occurs from the secular world.
Sorry, hope this helps. Best wishes to you on this endeavor. Thank you for what you do.
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AnneElizabeth
Guest
I know you are an Atheist as your signature says, but it should be noted to Norseman, that Holy Scripture does tout that for a man, a good wife is a reward from The Lord. Just needs to be said, to clear up what you stated is not based off of Catholic or Christian or even Judeo-Christian concept, but your own.
Proverbs 18:22
The man who finds a wife finds a treasure, and he receives favor from the LORD.
Proverbs 19:14
Houses and wealth are inherited from parents**, but a prudent wife is from the LORD.**
I think there are a few other references, but its in there. A wife* is* a reward for a man according to The Word of the Lord. Women were made for men so that men would not be alone.
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DarkLight
Guest
A good wife is a gift from the Lord, not a reward. What people are saying is that God does not owe you a wife as a reward or payment for your obedience. Nor does any woman owe it to commit her life to you. A spouse is a precious gift, but one may be faithful and desire marriage and not find one - a spouse is not something you can earn by being obedient for so many years.
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Xantippe
Guest
The reward versus gift distinction is a very good one.
LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
What you describe here is the exact reason I struggle with hearing “It is just not the right time” or “God will put someone in your life” I believe in God and I have faith but there are people who wanted to get married and never did. A lot are other Catholics, like me. Marriage is definitely a blessing not a entitlement. And not everyone is blessed with a spouse. That is why I want to be proactive in my search. The worst advice I have ever gotten about dating is “When you stop looking, it will happen”
I hope it happens for me one day, but I have prayed a lot that if the day comes where I realize it is just never going to happen that I can come to accept it so that I can still live with a little peace and joy.
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AnneElizabeth
Guest
mm, not sure about what you are saying here… I have concerns still…
The passage in context seems to imply to me that God gives a ‘good’ wife to those who do God’s will. I would say that is a ‘reward’ in the sense. Are not gifts also rewards sometimes? Anyway, could be splitting hairs over this.
Found this about defining the difference between an award and a reward:
“Awards are tokens of appreciation, which are given to individuals for their achievements. It can be called as symbol of recognition to an individual for their personal achievements. Rewards on the other hand are also recognition but it is a kind of acknowledgment to an individuals contributions. Rewards can also be said to be an encouragement to an individual.”
Read more: Difference Between Award and Reward | Difference Between | Award vs Reward differencebetween.net/language/difference-between-award-and-reward/#ixzz3ymlBtgWO
Also found this, from a Christan website about the difference between gifts and rewards. The website is not Catholic, but still might help define things:
“There is a world of difference between a “gift” and a “reward.” A gift is “something given voluntarily without payment in return.” A reward is “something given or received for service, merit, hardship, etc.” A reward is something you earn. A gift is freely given and is not earned by the recipient.”
Read more at christianpost.com/news/the-biblical-distinction-between-gift-and-reward-87729/#sm5GXyLdfSHGKh6l.99
So, according to this, if getting a wife is a gift, then why are people here telling him here that he needs to do this and that to ‘earn’ one? If a wife is a gift, then he shouldn’t have to do anything to get one. God will just present one to him. And therefore anyone saying “you need to do this to get wife” ought not say anything at all, because God will give a spouse to someone whenever. Because ultimately then, it doesn’t matter what one does.
Also, God does expect that what a man does with his wife effects his heavenly reward, so in effect, its not a ‘gift’ either in that sense. You don’t get a wife and get to do with her whatever you want and not be judged for it. God doesn’t give his daughter away to just anyone- He gives his precious daughter to a man who has shown he will take care of her. A precious daughter of God rewards a man by her prudent and good actions for his behalf.
I’m not sure about the women " not committing her life to you…" What does help-meet mean then? To me, it means she commits to her husband, his needs. Attends to him. Devotes her time to attend to his endeavors, to encourage and contribute
God certainly gives what He wants to give. And it doesn’t matter what we think we deserve but only what He thinks we shall have. So I’m not saying here that if we do xy and z that God’s going to be like some vending machine to give us the reward, however I am saying that God rewards good men with good women as wives. Women should be keen on trying to become worthy crowns to adorn their husbands too.
LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
Not all of us. Some of us were real hoodlums and heathens who later changed our ways, thanks be to God
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Xantippe
Guest
It isn’t a question of earning, but of being able to create and sustain a relationship.
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DarkLight
Guest
I can see your point here - but the main idea I wanted to get across, and the idea that BlueEyedLady was going after, is that you’re not owed a wife after a certain amount of good behavior. It’s not right to do what some men (possibly in this thread) do and say, well, how come I am so faithful and good and yet I have no possibilities for marriage right now, yet other men who aren’t as faithful get married. That’s not how it works - you can’t tick off enough obedience boxes that you are now entitled to a good wife.
By “not committing her life to you”, I meant to refer to marriage, with all that it entails in Catholic theology. So no woman owes it to a man to make her marriage vows to him.
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AnneElizabeth
Guest
I see what you are saying here, and I am in partial agreement… My beef was that its incorrect to put it on Norseman that he feels that he’s owed a wife after so much devotion to the Lord… As in, I don’t believe he ever said that or implied that in his posts, yet others have implied that he did… , but he did say that when you put so much into doing something for someone, you do hope to get something back in return, because it is* incentive* to keep doing those things. That STILL goes along the lines of what Scripture I quoted. I believe God gives incentive. Proverbs says that doing God’s Will is its own reward.
I see now what you are saying about the 'committing her life to you"… You mean any random woman that he might like doesn’t owe her commitment to him. ? Again, I don’t see Norseman as saying that in any of his statements. Its being put on his back, which is already heavily laden with loneliness I presume. Not sure what is being achieved here in this thread.
Totally agree that you can’t tick off enough obedience boxes to entitle yourself to a good wife by one’s expectations and self judgment… However, God will decide and you’d think God would give incentive and rewards for good work… (I’m going to be searching the Scriptures for some evidence of that- the phrase “heavenly reward” we hear often seems to imply incentive, but that is not for in this life but the next.) In the meantime, you should strive to tick off the boxes anyway because what you do have will help your marriage… its what will either make or break your marriage. I.e. One example: the person with self discipline will fair much better in a marriage than one who has not any.
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AnneElizabeth
Guest
Interesting… sustaining a relationship is about earning, isnt’ it? If I treat my spouse like he’s boring and I’d rather be out with my friends chatting, I’m not doing much to earn his love, and probably won’t sooner or later if I don’t meet his needs, or at least try and make some attempt at meeting them.
How we treat others is how we treat God. Jesus said, whatever you do to the least of these, you do onto me.
Anyway, I might just be looking at this from a different angle than you. It appears we are honing in on the same scope/point. Like the argument: is a school bus orange or yellow?.. some say yellow and some say orange. So… I’ll bail out now. :angel1:
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EasterJoy
Guest
The bottom line is that there is nothing in the tradition of the Church nor in Holy Scriptures that puts a spouse on the list of the promises of Christ for those who remain faithful. It isn’t there.
I think anyone who is a parent would recognize that a good parent does choose gifts based on knowledge of the recipient. That doesn’t mean the gift is “earned,” but only that it was deemed appropriate. Parents have also been known to choose not the gift the young person asked for, even when it is a gift that the recipient could have been deemed ready to get, but instead choose a different gift deemed even more appropriate still or choose a time other than the one the recipient wants.
In other words, no one ought to judge that someone who has not found a spouse has been deemed unworthy of one–either by God or by the members of the opposite sex who know him or her the best! I can hardly count the number of fellows I knew would make good husbands for someone, but not for me. Thirty years later, I have been proven right. They are well-married, and to far better matches than I would have been for any of them. Even ones who did not married would not have been better-off married to me.
Heaven preserve all we love from the trial of attempting an invalid marriage or an unnecessarily difficult marriage. It is hard, but it is far better to wait for the right one. It simply is not true that it is better to have tried a marriage that was invalid or a bad match than to have never attempted marriage at all!!
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